kuro68k wrote: » The British government is going to take it right to the cliff edge and hope that someone else compromises. Of course they have their excuses already lined up if no-one does, only real question is who they will blame.
MrMusician18 wrote: » If that was the case you'd have expected support for Brexit to collapse in the wake of the referendum. This hasn't happened, it's only shrunk slightly.
SimonTemplar wrote: » If the proposal is rejected by the HoC, do you think May will go. I can't see her position being viable in that situation. If so, would a second ref become more likely or less likely?
Infini wrote: » It all depends. Sure she could go but who wants to become the PM on whos watch the country disintegrates over the issue. The only way out where this could end as damage limitation if the WA isnt agreed is if parliment decides to take control and cancel the whole Brexit excercise before they crash out. Theres more than enough support if the option came up but they'd need to basically come out and hammer the bullshytters hard by constantly hitting them over the lies the dodgy money connections and the criminal charges on the leave side. Cancelling Brexit might be divisive but its far less the cost of a messy and disorderly crashout in March which could bring down the UK altogether.
Professor Moriarty wrote: » I disagree. A sudden and deep shock to an economy should be avoided. It's always better to untie than cut off.
Nody wrote: » Anyway the 3 blokes series made a relatively short video on the Withdrawal agreement and the general conclusion is there are only two options on the table in practice; no deal crash out or remain in EU because there is bugger all chance the WA gets through Parliament.
Inquitus wrote: » I don't think they could get away with unilaterally cancelling Brexit without having a 2nd Referendum, it would be thwarting the will of the people, and would probably be even more divisive than the current situation. There's only 2 options as I see it, and even a General Election will lead to one of them:2nd Referendum Hard Brexit
Shelga wrote: » David Davis has actually published an article saying “if necessary, we will leave with no deal, and negotiate a deal during the transition period.” He is apparently unaware that without a deal, there will be no transition period. This is actually gobsmacking. How can a single person be so utterly, mind-bogglingly stupid. Never mind being the former Brexit secretary! This is getting to be truly terrifying, 1984 type stuff now.https://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2018/11/david-davis-there-has-long-been-an-alternative-to-this-discredited-draft-deal-its-the-canada-style-plan-that-tusk-and-barnier-offered-us.html
An Ciarraioch wrote: » He's followed that up by calling for a Westminster vote on the WA this Thursday, even though it doesn't become a finalised, official document until the European summit on Sunday.
Water John wrote: » The number of known letters to Brady is +2 incl Teresa Villiers, making it 25. Seems more maybe 12, have told Baker but haven't put in the letters. I presume as Ciarraioch says, it's nor an official offer until it's passed on Sunday. Whilst Barnier and his team did the negotiations, they do not have the mandate to ratify. The night David was on QT at the time of his appointment, I made him out to be an oaf, and that has been proved correct.
Spook_ie wrote: » And according to Sky news, rumblings from Spain over Gibraltar.
The ERG isn’t a happy family. One member tells me the letter-wavers look like bullies. “This is all going to fizzle out and Moggy and Baker will get singed.” They added that they could back the deal: “If Cameron offered what May is offering, I would have snapped his hand off.”
Some ERG MPs spoke to their local associations over the weekend and were encouraged to get behind the PM. An MP who has attended ERG meetings for 12 months said Rees Mogg, Baker are “greedy” and that May would “easily” win a no confidence vote. This hasn’t gone well for JRM, etc.
A senior Conservative MP tells me the ERG has really misread the mood. “Some MPs went back to their associations expecting them to be clamouring to get rid of the PM but what they got instead was people saying ‘what the f**k do you think you’re doing?’”
cryptocurrency wrote: » They’ve been rumbling for years.
Spook_ie wrote: » But much louder since they read the WA document, talk already of adding an annex to the agreement.https://www.google.ie/url?sa=i&source=undefined&cd=&ved=0ahUKEwi45v7Wg-HeAhXC-aQKHX2dDDYQzPwBCAM&url=https%3A%2F%2Felpais.com%2Felpais%2F2018%2F11%2F19%2Finenglish%2F1542632114_326650.html&psig=AOvVaw2wxvNdxfj0ttFCMGDXm1px&ust=1542736561637471
ancapailldorcha wrote: » I nearly completely agree. However, it really has to be a referendum as too many politicians are scared to argue against the will of the people trope. It's a nonsense but it's also very powerful and implies treachery and treason to anyone who dares think otherwise. A general election is just going to dodge the issue as the usual voters will just vote Tory/Labour regardless.
theguzman wrote: » Basically there should be another referendum until the democratic will of the people is overwritten. That is not democracy that is a diktat from a Dictatorship.
cryptocurrency wrote: » Inquitus wrote: » I don't think they could get away with unilaterally cancelling Brexit without having a 2nd Referendum, it would be thwarting the will of the people, and would probably be even more divisive than the current situation. There's only 2 options as I see it, and even a General Election will lead to one of them:2nd Referendum Hard Brexit A 2nd referendum will make a mockery of democracy and solve nothing. There has been a vote in 2015 to have the referendum on the Tory manifesto. The referendum result and then other election where the Tories remained the biggest party. The only parties that were against Brexit done terrible. SNP has a bad night as did the Lib Dems. There is no justification at all for a 2nd referendum, especially since the never even implemented the results of the others. The British will never trust democracy again.
blanch152 wrote: » Were you against the recent abortion referendum which overturned the three previous ones?
ancapailldorcha wrote: » If it were the will of the people, Leave would win a referendum based on facts. The fact that there is so much hostility towards a people's vote which, incidentally was mooted by both Boris Johnson and Jacob Rees-Mogg indicates that these shadowy elites and oligarchs know full well that they were damned lucky to get over the line in 2016.
theguzman wrote: » There is facts which the leave voters reject as lies and try to brand anyone who points out the obvious as a bigot, racist or fool. Such hostility drove people to do the opposite of what they are being spoonfed by the BBC and Guardian etc.
ancapailldorcha wrote: » Can you substantiate any of this? What, specifically is this based on?
theguzman wrote: » The pontificating of Bob Geldof on the Thames alone hardened the resolve of thousands of voters to side with Brexit.
ancapailldorcha wrote: » And the rest of the 17.4 million?
