kuro68k wrote: » The British government is going to take it right to the cliff edge and hope that someone else compromises. Of course they have their excuses already lined up if no-one does, only real question is who they will blame.
Shelga wrote: » Just read the Spectator article with the 40 points. This really is an awful deal for the UK. What else did they expect?
Shelga wrote: » What else did they expect?
Bambi wrote: » Once we unite with the Six, a large presence of dutch peacekeeping troops would be just the ticket
josip wrote: » Is this a reference to Srebrenica? Or a desire to see William Of Orange's descendants back again?
Bambi wrote: » Old times sake. Serious point though, any transition to an All Ireland arrangement is going to require us to beef up our defence forces and some presence from other EU states
RobMc59 wrote: » The possibility of an extension to the transition period could be a godsend as it could signal the indefinite postponement of Brexit-I know a lot of ordinary people are asking why are we being railroaded into something which is turning out not to be as promised and only wanted by a gang of privileged toffs and xenophobes.
mrbrianj wrote: » As long as there is some certainty to what is happening. Business are struggling with this - do they invest in new infrastructure in either future market, only to find that their investment was unnecessary and they cant carry the loss. Or sit on their hands and hope that after negotiations they still have access to all the markets? At the moment business cant make sound investments and share prices are all over the place, the quicker the "deal" is done and closed out the better. It is one of the biggest problems with Brexit. A long / indefinite transition will just leave business in limbo, sitting on the fence. They said it would be the easiest trade deal ever or a no deal crash out - both of which was looney stuff. The closer the links the harder to untie. The real business leaders will come into play now, (not probrexit guys with Russian backing or the ones with business models that require the standards dropped to survive) - just like the DUP are finding out now with the Farmers Union etc
Zubeneschamali wrote: » I think it is pretty clear that the voters expected Brexit to lose the referendum, they expected to be able to give two fingers to Cameron and Westminster without anything actually changing as a result.
MrMusician18 wrote: » If that was the case you'd have expected support for Brexit to collapse in the wake of the referendum. This hasn't happened, it's only shrunk slightly. This suggests to me that it wasn't a protest vote against Cameron, but something deeper. It might be hard for people of a pro European persuasion to accept, but the 52% was a rejection of Europe.
Donald Trump wrote: » A fast conclusion is better than any long drawn out period of uncertainty. Even if it is hard Brexit, once you know, you can act accordingly and optimally given that situation. Let the dust settle, pick up the pieces and proceed as best you can. While everything is up in the air and stagnating, business will just suffer a long slow and painful death
McGiver wrote: » The EU and all its precursors have always have been about more integration and more Europe. Only the ones who are misinformed or uninformed think otherwise. The only question is how and how quickly the integration happens not if it happens. The "if" is not a question at all.
McGiver wrote: » Schuman declaration of 1950 (de facto establishing the ECSC): By the way, this also addresses your notion that the EU was not instrumental in the maintenance of the longest period of peace in European history.
mrbrianj wrote: » just like the DUP are finding out now with the Farmers Union etc
EdgeCase wrote: » What is not being understood or communicated in the UK is that there are practical consequences to Brexit. Whether they agree with the EU or not, their economy is intricately connected on all sorts of levels to European systems and businesses have evolved over the last 45 years to make use of those systems and many people have built their lives around the ability use the freedom of movement that the EU provided. The UK is always free to leave the EU. It's just that nobody can magic away the consequences of uprooting and disrupting all of those systems and agreements.
Shelga wrote: » People didn’t care about the details of how to implement all of this when they voted Leave. They assumed politicians would be able to work it all out. They trusted them. They were very wrong.
An Ciarraioch wrote: » It appears an EU Commission/UK document details the extent of North-South cooperation underpinned by EU law - it couldn't be published before now because it was important to the backstop negotiations, but there are growing calls for the document to be made public:https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2018/1119/1011801-brexit-northern-ireland/
robinph wrote: » They didn't trust the politicians, so they demanded a vote because the population thought they knew better, then on getting a result that they were not expecting demanded the untrustworthy politicians do something about it and fix it all, but nobody ever asked what it was that was broken or what needed fixing or what the population wanted doing about it. So then the politicians that nobody trusted came back with an answer that nobody wanted and everyone said that's not what we voted for, and on anyone asking what it might have been that anyone voted for the population claims to not know that they were asked a question in the first place and why didn't the politicians just sort it out themselves seeing as it's there job.
Shelga wrote: » David Davis has actually published an article saying “if necessary, we will leave with no deal, and negotiate a deal during the transition period.” He is apparently unaware that without a deal, there will be no transition period. This is actually gobsmacking. How can a single person be so utterly, mind-bogglingly stupid. Never mind being the former Brexit secretary! This is getting to be truly terrifying, 1984 type stuff now.https://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2018/11/david-davis-there-has-long-been-an-alternative-to-this-discredited-draft-deal-its-the-canada-style-plan-that-tusk-and-barnier-offered-us.html
The crucial point is there is still time to save Brexit, still time to take control and still time to offer the British people a brighter future. This is the moment of truth. We can reject the proposed agreement and move on. We still have time because the key date in the calendar is 21st January, 2019. Only then does the Government need to make a statement within five days on what the United Kingdom plans to do, according to the European Union (Withdrawal) Act of 2018.
So, we can use the time until then productively. We know from past experience that the EU always leaves agreement to the final moment possible at the eleventh hour. Everybody in the UK wants the hope of a better deal – and trust me, we can do this. I spent countless hours negotiating with EU counterparts, and I know the great prize of a Canada-style free trade agreement is still possible. Indeed, it is very much still on. Both Michel Barnier and Donald Tusk have confirmed this.
Infini wrote: » It's not so much terrifying it's just ridiculous at the sheer level of idiocy and how stupid and ignorant these people have gotten. They're no better than the populist idiots in other countries who end up pushing this right until they're essentially forced to buckle under the sheer weight of reality. I would honestly think though that May might be smart enough to call this whole thing off if no one can agree at least if her words the other day were anything to go by. I seriously doubt she wants to go down as the PM who either ruined Britain or brought about its end. The agreement is essentially the only one they'll get, they can either accept it OR if they try for a No Deal which everyone knows is not gonna work and a total disaster she basically cancels Brexit citing no ability for anyone to agree to an orderly withdrawal. The conservative party is a total mess but she knows even if their is a leadership challenge by her opponents the possibility of her Losing one is remote, hell they're struggling just to MOUNT one right now. The likelyhood of the WA passing is very low, the likelyhood of a No Deal Brexit is very high and the lack of time might work against another vote. The ONLY other option bar No Deal under this is basically to outright cancel Brexit, that WOULD easily pass the Bullshíteers are significantly outnumbered by the Remainer MP and if this were an option it would pass. It would likely be a GE shortly afterwards but May would at least not be the one to go down as the one who ended Britain and the only reason I can see why's she's still here after all the drama and bull has to be a sense of duty rather than ideology,
