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Free Travel Pass Holders on peak time public transport

Emme

I have just got on the train. I pay over €3K a year for the privilege of travelling to work and €250 a year for parking. I am forced to commute by train because there are no viable alternatives. Driving is out because it would take 2 hours or more each way on the N7. There are no buses that go from my area. I cannot afford to live any closer to work. There are thousands of people in my position.

Eveey morning a good proportion of the seats are taken up by what look like free travel pass holders. Sometimes people like myself (paying commuters) have to stand because of this. From Athy on more people have to stand. Meanwhile the FTP holders who got on in Waterford or Kilkenny bask in comfort.

I understand some of them have to go to hospital appointments which is fair enough. But the gaggle of 8 mature women talking loudly about their shopping trip could have got a later train. They will probably get a peak time train home in the evening as will many of the other FTP holders. They always seem to get to the train first in the evenings while people who rush to the train from work often have to stand.

When you are tired and burnt out you can get angry and resentful. Angry and resentful of getting nothing for your taxes and paying a huge chunk of your salary to commute (often standing each way) while those who pay nothing get the seats.

I agree that some of these people worked hard and paid high taxes in their time but not as many of them were forced to do long commutes. They didn't have to work under the same pressure as people do now. Many of the women could be full time mums while many commuting women do not have this choice. Many of the FTP holders are in better health and more energetic than exhausted commuters. Yet we will have to work far longer than they did. Because of their energy they are able to protest if the government takes away their full time FTPs. There was a time it was for off peak travel only.

Meanwhile commuters are getting screwed in every way but are too exhausted to do anything.

The FTP should be for off peak travel only. If the government wants to give it to pensioners full time it should be means tested. If some of them can afford to shop in BTs they can surely afford the price of a train ticket.

Many will disagree with me. But I am tired of paying so much and getting nothing in return.

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Signore Fancy Pants

Get a motorbike OP.

Plumbthedepths

Emme wrote:

I agree with the safety of other road users but nobody cares about safety of rail users on overcrowded trains. You can only carry so many people in a car but you can cram as many people as you like into a train. I have never had a blackout in a car.

Irish trains are crowded but not to the point of being unsafe. Have a look at the Japanese train system for an example of as per your own example India. You have never had a blackout in a car...... but in your own words you are prone to blackouts. Sorry I think you are irresponsible and a danger on the roads by your own admission.

RobbingBandit

Ironing is delicious round here

im getting off this as I have things to do with my time.

witchgirl26

troyzer wrote: »

As a 25 year old it just depresses me how older people managed to shaft my generation with national debt, an unaffordable housing market and lower salaries whilst simultaneously enjoying benefits at our expense that we'll never have like state pensions and free travel passes.

You do realise that those who are entitled to the free pass due to age now did not shaft your generation at all and paid more nominal tax on their salaries than you currently are? In the 1980's there were six tax bands raging from 25% to 65% at the top. In 2018 the lowest tax rate is 20% with the highest being 40%. So realistically they have funded the free travel they're entitled to now themselves and you're the one with it a bit easier. And we don't have lower salaries. The cost of things has increased but so have salaries.

Look I get it, it's a pain that housing costs so much and that most likely, everyone will need a private pension but we are realistically better off than our parents. I'm in my early 30's and no way to I blame my parents generation for what happened. In the boom it was more the people who are in their 40's and 50's who possibly had the most borrowings but the main people they screwed were themselves. They are facing low pensions as their private ones crashed and they've less time to build them back up than you or I. A lot were stuck in houses in negative equity - some still are. They're not the people with free travel now. Those people with free travel have already made it through one recession in the 80's.

MrMusician18

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I paid taxes for 45 years , my husband paid taxes for 45 years .We worked hard through two resessions and got our three to UNI .Thankfully we also thought them to have manners , respect and realise how much of their elders scrimped and saved for them .Many worked two jobs to pay a mortgage . Thankfully they know this and would be first to be happy for anyone who know has free travel to enjoy a day out .They would also be the first to give them their seat .

Great. But paying taxes is not the same as paying into a saving scheme. Taxes paid in 1987 supported government expenditure in 1987 and have no bearing on what services should be provided now.

Young people today are hit with taxes to pay for the prolificacy of previous generations as well as enormous housing and childcare costs, hours from where that work. Young people today won't get to retire until 75, if they really retire at all. Today's young workers are the first since the start of the industrial revolution that will see their living standards fall with respect to those of their parents during peacetime.

The typical commuter pays hundreds for their annual ticket (Dublin bus only), which runs into thousands for a rail pass. So yeah, I think the commuter is entitled to feel aggrieved at the current state of unfairness. Sometimes it's a straw that breaks the camels back, and while I'm sure the OP had nothing against the individual FTP users, using their pass within the rules of the scheme, having to pay through the nose for the privilege of standing for hours to pay for everything is the final insult, just so the commuter knows their place.

FTA69

A thread bashing the elderly and disabled. Lovely hurling.

God forbid we'd concentrate on improving transport for all rather than calling for old women and the crippled to be lobbed off peak services.

davetherave

Emme wrote: »

Then let them travel on off peak trains which are more likely to have empty seats. If people are crammed into the corridors and the aisles on peak trains there are no empty seats.

antodeco wrote: »

The problem with this is their free travel will be outside business hours etc, so more awkward. I think the better way to phrase this is that there should be a reduced fair during peak and free off-peak.

Peak hours doesn't mean the entire working day. Transport for London peak hours are 0630-0930 and 1600-1900

Samuel Vimes

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I paid taxes for 45 years , my husband paid taxes for 45 years .We worked hard through two resessions and got our three to UNI .Thankfully we also thought them to have manners , respect and realise how much of their elders scrimped and saved for them .Many worked two jobs to pay a mortgage . Thankfully they know this and would be first to be happy for anyone who know has free travel to enjoy a day out .They would also be the first to give them their seat .

Your taxes didn't even amount to enough to pay the full economic cost of the education of your three kids FFS.
As for your mortgage, well you now own a valuable asset that the stste through Mortgage Interest Relief assisted you in buying.

ohnonotgmail

Emme wrote: »

I stated earlier that the incapacitated and disabled are not who I am discussing. I am referring to people who are healthy, wealthy and fit. Fair play to them but someone has to pay for their free travel. It is likely that the someone(s) will not have the same privileges themselves when the time comes.

If you can tell somebody is healthy just by looking at them you should consider entering the medical profession.

Emme

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Irish trains are crowded but not to the point of being unsafe. Have a look at the Japanese train system for an example of as per your own example India. You have never had a blackout in a car...... but in your own words you are prone to blackouts. Sorry I think you are irresponsible and a danger on the roads by your own admission.

I had blackouts in my teens and that was resolved by a test for iron deficiency and an iron supplement prescribed by the family doctor.

My more recent blackouts were resolved by prescribed treatment for my conditions and regular tests to ensure the right doses. Also if I check in regularly with my doctor and specialist, comply with their orders, tell them everything and they consider me fit to drive it is none of anyone's business here.

PlaneSpeeking

Qrt wrote: »

How long is yours? Just wondering, I’ve never talked to someone who commuted from outside Dublin!

Then you must not get out much, I've been commuting from Laois for 11 years and there's one or two of us.

I agree wholeheartedly with Emme and the fact most of you are not holding back the vitriol is sickening and shows a lack of understanding of the situation.

I have to cut my lunch down to 20 minutes (if at all) so that I am able to leave with ample time to get to Heuston for before 5pm, to get the 5.25pm train to Limerick. If I do not do this, I won't get a seat. More often than not I don't anyway.

I am one of many charged over 4 grand a year for travel and what do we get ? Disruption to our lives, treated like second class citizens and having to see those who can travel whenever they want get to do what they want. Actually the poster earlier was wrong about the "typically Irish thing" - that would be the constant slagging off of the working man or woman.

No one would ever argue that the disabled and those needing to get to hospital appointments should be able to use the services as and when, of course they should but over the summer is a nightmare. For example, two banks of seats with tables, should contain 8 people ? At least a couple of dozen times or more over the kids' summer holidays these were taken up by 2/3 adults and a couple of kids - who promptly refused to move. Working people stood for over an hour after a long day so little Kaydee-Maiii can have two seats.

There's no train host and no one to stop them. How can ANY of you critics justify this ???

PlaneSpeeking

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

There is no Indian style crush on Irish trains.

Seriously ? You have clearly NEVER travelled on a commuter train when they decide to cut it down to 4 carriages from 5 (when really it needs to be 6).

gimli2112

I have the same issue when queing up at a shop after work. I'm outraged that all these people couldn't have gone during the day. Then I realise I'm just being irrational.

Plumbthedepths

Emme wrote:

My more recent blackouts were resolved by prescribed treatment for my conditions and regular tests to ensure the right doses. Also if I check in regularly with my doctor and specialist, comply with their orders, tell them everything and they consider me fit to drive it is none of anyone's business here.

Are you blackout free for 3 years? If not you should not be behind the wheel of a car.As an aside I am a regular road user and if you are prone to blackouts it is the business of other road users. You brought up your condition too late now trying to row back.

blanch152

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I have free travel and so does my husband .I dont think it that simple really as many pensioners use it at peak times for a reason ,they might have hospital appointments etc to get to .I know so many who will avoid peak times simply because its too full and wait till 10am or so to travel .I really doubt the transport is full of people free travel at peak times as they would prefer to avoid the crowds

All I am suggesting is a small charge at peak times. That is what is normal in other EU countries.

In the UK, the travel pass isn't free for every service. Some of the services are discounted rather than free.

https://www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/money-legal/benefits-entitlements/free-bus-pass-and-transport-concessions/

The cost of the scheme is now €77m

https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/free-travel-for-nearly-1m-people-cost-77m-in-2017-469806.html

Is that money being spent in the best way possible?

[Deleted User]

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Are you blackout free for 3 years? If not you should not be behind the wheel of a car.As an aside I am a regular road user and if you are prone to blackouts it is the business of other road users. You brought up your condition too late now trying to row back.

Jesus, you're like a dog with a bone. My girlfriend's lupus causes her to have blackouts when she's really bad. Does that mean she shouldn't be allowed to drive when she's in remission?

Emme

FTA69 wrote: »

A thread bashing the elderly and disabled. Lovely hurling.

God forbid we'd concentrate on improving transport for all rather than calling for old women and the crippled to be lobbed off peak services.

Nobody is bashing the disabled but I consider the use of the FTP at peak time for unnecesssary travel to be excessive. This partly the fault of transport bodies but not all countries permit the use of FTPs at all times.

In an ideal world there would be room for FTP holders and regular commuters to travel comfortably whenever they wanted. Comfortably means getting a seat. I think people going to medical appointments should travel free there and back at any time. Also the disabled and incapacitated. And those on limited incomes.

Those who are fit and healthy, can afford it and are going on a "day out" might consider paying half price to travel at peak time. Surely this would not be unreasonable?

witchgirl26

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

At least a couple of dozen times or more over the kids' summer holidays these were taken up by 2/3 adults and a couple of kids - who promptly refused to move. Working people stood for over an hour after a long day so little Kaydee-Maiii can have two seats.

Em I don't see how that relates to free-travel holders? Kids don't travel free unless they're under a certain age as far as I'm aware. So those people could have very easily paid for their seats. Now I don't agree with them taking up a load of seats for their stuff but there have been arguments about kids having to move for others when their tickets also cost money so therefore are as entitled to a seat as anyone. While I'd hope kids would move for older people who may find it difficult to stand (or others in a similar situation), they shouldn't have to give up seats if they've paid for them to anyone else.

Plumbthedepths

PlaneSpeeking wrote:

Seriously ? You have clearly NEVER travelled on a commuter train when they decide to cut it down to 4 carriages from 5 (when really it needs to be 6).

When I see people sit on top of the carriages I'll accept the comparison. Until then I'll file it under 'hyperbole'.

Kirby

Emme wrote: »

I am not talking about the ill or disabled. I am talking about fit able people who are milking the FTP for all it's worth and travelling at peak time when it is not necessary. Commuters have no choice.

You could move. Or get a different job. Those are choices.

If they are unpalatable to you that's your business. But being angry at people for taking "your" seat is going to get you nowhere.

Garibaldi?

Older people travelling on the free pass is good for the economy. They are inclined to go out and about and spend the "grey euro". If this was restricted they might be less inclined to do that. Just a thought!

PlaneSpeeking

witchgirl26 wrote: »

Em I don't see how that relates to free-travel holders? Kids don't travel free unless they're under a certain age as far as I'm aware. So those people could have very easily paid for their seats. Now I don't agree with them taking up a load of seats for their stuff but there have been arguments about kids having to move for others when their tickets also cost money so therefore are as entitled to a seat as anyone. While I'd hope kids would move for older people who may find it difficult to stand (or others in a similar situation), they shouldn't have to give up seats if they've paid for them to anyone else.

They had their FTP out. They paid zilch.

And you misread the point - packed train with workers wanting to get home, max 5 people on seats for 8 and refusing to move their crap so at least 3 people could get a seat.

No way is that okay.

Plumbthedepths

Deleted User wrote:

Jesus, you're like a dog with a bone. My girlfriend's lupus causes her to have blackouts when she's really bad. Does that mean she shouldn't be allowed to drive when she's in remission?

A friend of mine lost 2 children because the driver that crashed in to him had a blackout, the driver in question didn't inform his doctor. It came out in the subsequent court case. So yeah I guess i'm a dog with a bone.

PlaneSpeeking

Kirby wrote: »

You could move. Or get a different job. Those are choices.

If they are unpalatable to you that's your business. But being angry at people for taking "your" seat is going to get you nowhere.

Once again the rank hypocrisy and double standards - God no, can't tell a doleite to get a job, make you the worst in the world that.

But I can be told to pack up my entire house and move (like who has time or money to do that ???), change my father's nursing home care and go through all that - rather than ask someone who DOES NOT have to travel on the commuter services at peak time to travel an hour earlier or later ?

Jokers some of you.

Hector Savage

How long is the commute from Carlow to Dublin ?

Emme

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

When I see people sit on top of the carriages I'll accept the comparison. Until then I'll file it under 'hyperbole'.

Hyperbole indeed.

Have you ever tried to sit on top of an Irish Rail train, a DART or a Luas? You wouldn't be allowed to do it.

gimli2112

Hector Savage wrote: »

How long is the commute from Carlow to Dublin ?

about an hour

zell12

Garibaldi? wrote: »

Older people travelling on the free pass is good for the economy. They are inclined to go out and about and spend the "grey euro". If this was restricted they might be less inclined to do that. Just a thought!

Or maybe just hogging the free seat and heat to save on home leccy bills

iamwhoiam

Samuel Vimes wrote: »

Your taxes didn't even amount to enough to pay the full economic cost of the education of your three kids FFS.
As for your mortgage, well you now own a valuable asset that the stste through Mortgage Interest Relief assisted you in buying.

What is your actual point ?

Emme

gimli2112 wrote: »

about an hour

It's usually an hour and 10 minutes. Factor in getting to and from the train and work and you're talking 3 hours or thereabouts.