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TII Motorway Service Areas (MSA) Progress Thread

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,981 ✭✭✭ tylercheribini


    secman wrote: »
    The completion date for the Gorey site is now pushed out to about 2nd to 3rd week of February 19.

    Source?


  • Registered Users Posts: 903 ✭✭✭ Wetasanotter


    blackwhite wrote: »
    The State's tendering process was never the issue.
    Applegreen consortium clearly wanted to win the tender as they submitted a competitive bid.

    Applegreen consortium didn't win the tender, their belief that this was due to a technicality and a poorly thought out scoring system that didn't reflect the reality of the submitted tenders.

    Applegreen pursue court action.

    It's not the State's fault for creating a tendering process that left them open to court action, nor is it the State's fault for not recouping the €550,000 in legal fees, nor is it the State's fault for not seeking damages for the upkeep of the MSAs during the legal proceedings?

    I'm sorry, but I have to question your thought processes in assigning cause & blame.

    That's rather nonsensical.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,299 ✭✭✭ serfboard


    It's not the State's fault for creating a tendering process that left them open to court action
    It's the job of lawyers to find challengeable parts to contracts/tenders which they can then pursue on behalf of their clients.

    IMO it would not have been possible to design a tender that would be totally litigation-proof.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,587 ✭✭✭ blackwhite


    Applegreen consortium clearly wanted to win the tender as they submitted a competitive bid.

    Applegreen consortium didn't win the tender, their belief that this was due to a technicality and a poorly thought out scoring system that didn't reflect the reality of the submitted tenders.

    Applegreen pursue court action.

    It's not the State's fault for creating a tendering process that left them open to court action, nor is it the State's fault for not recouping the €550,000 in legal fees, nor is it the State's fault for not seeking damages for the upkeep of the MSAs during the legal proceedings?

    I'm sorry, but I have to question your thought processes in assigning cause & blame.

    That's rather nonsensical.

    If you paid any attention to any of the developments of online and offline MW services in this country you’d see a massive pattern of protectionism for existing sites, and exploration of any avenue possible to try and block competition.

    Applegreen clealry wanted to win the tenders.
    When they didn’t the legal challenge wasn’t primarily to try and overturn the decision - it was simply to delay the project whilst they got their own site on the same routes established first.

    Standard tactics in plenty of markets - not just the Irish retail sector


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,369 Mod ✭✭✭✭ spacetweek


    As Ronald Reagan said "The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help." In this instance the private sector should have been left to its own devices because the state couldnt have f***ked it up more if they tried.
    Oh dear. How lucky we are he was never our president.
    We are currently having Celtic Tiger levels of growth again. Do you think traffic on the M11 is insignificant? What about the boost the Gorey site will get when the Enniscorthy extension opens? The only f**k up was letting the trials go on as long as they did.
    serfboard wrote: »
    IMO it would not have been possible to design a tender that would be totally litigation-proof.
    Yes but see above, the litigation shouldn't have gone on so long.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,503 ✭✭✭ secman


    Source?

    Horses mouth so to speak , programme is way behind.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,981 ✭✭✭ tylercheribini


    spacetweek wrote: »
    Oh dear. How lucky we are he was never our president.
    We are currently having Celtic Tiger levels of growth again. Do you think traffic on the M11 is insignificant? What about the boost the Gorey site will get when the Enniscorthy extension opens? The only f**k up was letting the trials go on as long as they did.

    Yes but see above, the litigation shouldn't have gone on so long.

    Never stated anywhere I would have ever wanted him as our President but sure even if he was he would have been as toothless as Michael D or any of his predecessors. :)

    "We are currently having Celtic Tiger levels of growth again" :) Is this an FG bot? Again not what I said anyway, like much of Celtic Tiger doctrine, "projections" were complete pie in the sky based on unsustainable and exponential growth.Already previously stated that the M11 site will possibly become more viable after Enniscorthy scheme opening. Again, go back and read my post on the original premise for the sites construction in the first place,from somebody who was at the hearings and read their "analysis", id dig out the cd rom again if i was arsed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,716 ✭✭✭ Silent Running


    secman wrote: »
    Horses mouth so to speak , programme is way behind.

    Does the horse know if there is an EV charger on the Gorey site? :p

    Probably not seeing as this site was started before the explosion of new EVs.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,503 ✭✭✭ secman


    Does the horse know if there is an EV charger on the Gorey site? :p

    Probably not seeing as this site was started before the explosion of new EVs.

    2 in Gorey , none in Goffs .


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 13,204 Mod ✭✭✭✭ marno21




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  • Registered Users Posts: 903 ✭✭✭ Wetasanotter


    blackwhite wrote: »
    If you paid any attention to any of the developments of online and offline MW services in this country you’d see a massive pattern of protectionism for existing sites, and exploration of any avenue possible to try and block competition.

    Applegreen clealry wanted to win the tenders.
    When they didn’t the legal challenge wasn’t primarily to try and overturn the decision - it was simply to delay the project whilst they got their own site on the same routes established first.

    Standard tactics in plenty of markets - not just the Irish retail sector

    The tender over the long term is far more valuable than a couple of years for their site offline at the N11.

    A look at their reason for appealing the tender does not appear to be spurious or based on a technicality at all - their tender beat the Topaz tender on all areas other than footpaths, and the footpath criteria appeared to be nonsensically based on depth rather than usable lifespan (here's a hint: when tendering for a period of time, the tender should be scored based on lifespan/lifetime characteristics, not characteristics on day one).

    That said, you're arguing that Applegreen's primary reason for appealing the tender wasn't to overturn the decision (which would result in far higher economic benefit for them) or to reach a settlement (which would result in higher economic benefit to them), it was primarily to delay opening so they could run an offline service station for two-three years.

    Your arguments are rather illogical and not grounded on anything beyond vague conspiracy theories and ignorance, but more power to you!


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,587 ✭✭✭ blackwhite


    The tender over the long term is far more valuable than a couple of years for their site offline at the N11.

    A look at their reason for appealing the tender does not appear to be spurious or based on a technicality at all - their tender beat the Topaz tender on all areas other than footpaths, and the footpath criteria appeared to be nonsensically based on depth rather than usable lifespan (here's a hint: when tendering for a period of time, the tender should be scored based on lifespan/lifetime characteristics, not characteristics on day one).

    That said, you're arguing that Applegreen's primary reason for appealing the tender wasn't to overturn the decision (which would result in far higher economic benefit for them) or to reach a settlement (which would result in higher economic benefit to them), it was primarily to delay opening so they could run an offline service station for two-three years.

    Your arguments are rather illogical and not grounded on anything beyond vague conspiracy theories and ignorance, but more power to you!


    Or based on over a decade working in the industry, and knowing some of the parties involved.


    But hey - lets just get into some personal abuse instead if that’s what you need to make yourself feel good about yourself :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users Posts: 560 ✭✭✭ Aontachtoir


    A side question: why do we refer to it as the Gorey MSA when Arklow is both larger and several kilometres closer?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,661 ✭✭✭✭ OldMrBrennan83


    A side question: why do we refer to it as the Gorey MSA when Arklow is both larger and several kilometres closer?

    I wondered that myself. Maybe it's something to do with it being in Wexford (not sure if it is) or that it's on the newer stretch of road which is the Gorey bypass section.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,228 ✭✭✭ DaCor


    blackwhite wrote: »
    But hey - lets just get into some personal abuse instead if that’s what you need to make yourself feel good about yourself :rolleyes:

    Pretty sure his post tore yours to shreds with no personal attacks. Feel free to report posts if you think there's a case of "playing the man not the ball"


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,241 ✭✭✭✭ road_high


    How’s the Kilcullen M9 one coming along? Seem to be working away on it. Is that going to be a Topaz or Applegreen?


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,369 Mod ✭✭✭✭ spacetweek


    road_high wrote: »
    How’s the Kilcullen M9 one coming along? Seem to be working away on it. Is that going to be a Topaz or Applegreen?

    Dunno but I hear it'll open next summer.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,981 ✭✭✭ tylercheribini


    A side question: why do we refer to it as the Gorey MSA when Arklow is both larger and several kilometres closer?

    Its just inside the Wexford border so I'd imagine its much like domestic addresses including the nearest town in county its located in rather than proxmity to nearer towns. Postal address of service area will end in Gorey, Co. Wexford.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,440 ✭✭✭✭ josip


    Its just inside the Wexford border so I'd imagine its much like domestic addresses including the nearest town in county its located in rather than proxmity to nearer towns. Postal address of service area will end in Gorey, Co. Wexford.


    I thought it was usually the opposite?
    Although we live in Co. Kilkenny, our nearest postal town is New Ross, so our postal address is New Ross, Co. Wexford.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,561 ✭✭✭✭ flazio


    josip wrote: »
    I thought it was usually the opposite?
    Although we live in Co. Kilkenny, our nearest postal town is New Ross, so our postal address is New Ross, Co. Wexford.

    Really? Because people from east of Ballinasloe would have their postal address as Taughmaconnel (for example) Ballinasloe, Co. Roscommon. Even though Ballinasloe is in Galway.


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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 16,859 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Sam Russell


    Mod: Can we leave the postal address disputes to the An Post disputes resolution section. It is off topic here.

    If you want to discuss such matters open a new thread.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,981 ✭✭✭ tylercheribini


    flazio wrote: »
    Really? Because people from east of Ballinasloe would have their postal address as Taughmaconnel (for example) Ballinasloe, Co. Roscommon. Even though Ballinasloe is in Galway.

    There are always going to be anomalies (especially in this country!), some overlap with landline prefixes too, generally speaking though for postal its nearest town in county.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,661 ✭✭✭✭ OldMrBrennan83


    I don't care if it's Arklow, Gorey, or even Inch so long as they open the bloody thing soon. Feck all decent chances for a coffee going from Dublin to Wexford.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,299 ✭✭✭ serfboard


    Patww79 wrote: »
    Feck all decent chances for a coffee going from Dublin to Wexford.
    Well when it's open it's going to be Circle K, so I don't think anything is going to change there!

    Actually, does anyone know what cafe is going to open as part of this, if any? Insomnia?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,661 ✭✭✭✭ OldMrBrennan83


    serfboard wrote: »
    Well when it's open it's going to be Circle K, so I don't think anything is going to change there!

    Actually, does anyone know what cafe is going to open as part of this, if any? Insomnia?

    If it's Circle K then probably their own machines just. Be nice to be able to just park to get one though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,201 ✭✭✭ ongarboy


    Circle K do a "Simply Great Coffee" brand. I imagine a place like this will have a barista offering with sit down facilities as well as self service options. Not sure if they are partnering with outside brands like Applegreen do.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,201 ✭✭✭ ongarboy


    Circle K invests €3.7m in new N7 station (via @IrishTimes) https://www.irishtimes.com/business/retail-and-services/circle-k-invests-3-7m-in-new-n7-station-1.3721520

    Ok, according to this article, Circle K now saying Gorey MSA won't open until February while Kilcullen and Moate will be October and November of next year. They have just opened a much enhanced forecourt at Kill on the N7 eastbound.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,578 ✭✭✭ jd


    Reply to email I sent to TII regarding Gorey Service Station
    Dear JD,

    The position in relation to your enquiry is as follows.

    ..



    Following the withdrawal of the legal challenge, discussions were resumed with the Preferred Bidder, Circle K (formerly, Topaz), and the contract was signed in July 2018.
    Works commenced on the fit-out of the Gorey Service Area in September 2018 following site mobilisation and it is anticipated that the facility will open in Q2, 2019.


  • Registered Users Posts: 955 ✭✭✭ radharc


    jd wrote: »
    Reply to email I sent to TII regarding Gorey Service Station

    Did they give a date for the other Services (Kilcullen and Athlone)?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 560 ✭✭✭ Aontachtoir


    I was on the M8 for the first time in months recently and was very pleased to see that TII have replaced the glum "no online services ahead" signs at Glanmire with a much cheerier one listing the location of AND distance to the various services on the motorway. No more hand-waving saying that there are offline services in 40, 80, and 120 km, if you can find them.

    We're spoiled now.

    (I was not driving the car when this photo was taken).


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