thesaturdayman wrote: » Where is this figure of 8-10k per club per year being brought out of? Or who made it up?
914 wrote: » I roughly worked it out in my head. It was said in the past a 1-2k levy for clubs for walsh park redevelopment, at a €5/€6 million developement. Louth GAA are spending €8 million on a 12k stadium. So us moving to a greenfield site and constructing a 15-20k ground, would be at least €15-€20 million so its not hard to imagine a levy somewhere in between 5-10k, I am open to correction. Munster council CEO stated fully funding a greenfield developed could have interest repayments of up to 500k per year. 50 clubs in the county that would be 10k a club!
thesaturdayman wrote: » It could , it could not. The figures quoted are to say the least - dubious. Scaremongering to the highest end. Mind you can understand munster Gaa not wanting to support any kind of project in Waterford as they bailed us out to tune of 500k 3 years ago. If Carriganore was visited properly in terms of funding from all bodies, dep of sport, education, Munster council, central council, sports capital, regional development. Plus private funding Plus levies (existing levels) Plus walsh Park funds ex sale/development Plus any other events that could be run on bi yearly basis - concerts etc. This would be a much more viable financial proposition with longevity, then papering over the cracks in walsh Park, a half arsed please all solution, keep the west happy & it’ll do. Ever wonder why we have won 1 all Ireland in 50 years? This is the living example of half arsed, “it’ll do” attitude that goes to the core of Waterford Gaa. Instead of leading the way for the county, we will just limp along & it’ll never change. The cronies and stooges be wheeled out at convention, musical chairs, they’ll swap seats but it’ll still be the tired old faces driving another nail into the coffin of the Gaa here
914 wrote: » run on bi yearly basis - concerts, not a fear of it. Look at all the fine GAA Grounds around the country, that host little or no concerts. I wouldn't be depending on concerts. Also private investment would that not open it up to other sports therefore breaking GAA rules? Can not see to much private investment unless investor's get a return. Possibly filling to capacity twice a year will not provide and return for any potential investor. Looking at it realistically do you really see a need for greater capacity than 16k for the next 15-20 years? Lucky to get 2k at county finals, a couple of hundred at munster club semi final. 7/8k attendances at league games. Not a sell out for u21 Munster final and we the home team.
thesaturdayman wrote: » 1 concert to the tune of Ed sheeran in cork every decade would be worth €25k per year to the local Gaa - rebate of €5k per club or contribution toward county board. Cork made 250k per gig x3. 1 Every decade - let that sink in.
914 wrote: » And what if we can't get one every decade? We could get two a decade or three but we could also get none. 250k per three gigs would pay the interest for 1.5 years.
thesaturdayman wrote: » What if we get 3 gigs? 500k interest on what? A 40m loan is it? What pie in the sky number does that interest refer to! How much of a loan? From who what terms ? How long? Talking absolute scaremongering & rubbish & anyone believes it is a bigger fool.
914 wrote: » I did say that, we could get three, four or five gigs but we could also get none! Back to my initial point... Looking at it realistically do you really see a need for greater capacity than 16k for the next 15-20 years? Lucky to get 2k at county finals, a couple of hundred at munster club semi final. 7/8k attendances at league games. Not a sell out for u21 Munster final and we the home team.
thesaturdayman wrote: » Yea but what about down the line a rugby World Cup? Euro championships? Waterford isn’t set up for it at all. There are plenty ways to make money beyond Bruce Springsteen & Ed sheeran. As I said earlier, our “leaders” and people at the wheel have no vision, they can’t see beyond their next carvery dinner. We should be investing in the future not catching up on the past.
914 wrote: » Again its all well and good but if we get no concerts, no rugby no european championships how do we then pay for it. Limerick, gaelic grounds 50k and no concerts, rugby or european champions. Now if we had a jp in waterford then go for it but unfortunately we don't. As for the figures earlier, €1 million euro loan over five years would have interest repayments of approx €160k per year.
thesaturdayman wrote: » If u look at my original post all this additional Revenue is a bonus. I listed out about 5 forms of grants + other not to different from current proposal. Sale of walsh Park also. My god - who you getting the loan from? Provident? Borrow 1m & pay back 1.8m over 5 years? 80% interest??
914 wrote: » Sorry slip of the finger, the joys of typing on the phone. A €1 million loan at 5.5% over 5 years would be approx 18/19k repayments per month. Looking at the money that was pumped into PUC I'd say we wouldn't get a whole load from GAA HQ, sports council, etc.... Look at the hassle WIT had trying to get emergence funding to finish WIT arean.
thesaturdayman wrote: » That was then, this is now. They got it it’s built. Build it and they will come. County board paid them 60k renting it off them in 2016. Anyways said what I have to say, this county is well and truly fcked.
Deiseen wrote: » Would these kind hearted gentlemen not throw some money in for Walsh Park? If they have Waterford GAA's best interests at heart then surely they could pump a few million into aul WP?
bruschi wrote: » As an outsider looking in, I cant believe the direction Waterford GAA are going with Walsh Park. There is serious scope for return on investment with the sale of the grounds for housing development, whether through government issue build or private development. It was canned when the crash it in 08, but now is the opportunity to take advantage of a housing crisis again. Making the clubs pay a levy is something that seems unique to Waterford too, I cant say I've heard of any other county holding its clubs to ransom like this. Walsh Park is one of the worst grounds in terms of access around. Yes, I imagine many of you will come on and tell me of all these other grounds, including Wexford Park, where access and parking is an issue. But other grounds having it bad is no reason to keep your own one bad. The entrance areas are being changed in these new plans I assume, because the turnstile set up is also one of the slowest ones to get crowds into a game, our league game between Waterford and Wexford this year a prime example. It was mentioned that Gaelic grounds get no concerts or games etc. Well they have hosted AI semi finals, they have hosted AI finals at other grades, they have had international rules games, and they had a National Geographic concert this year there. Wexford has rarely had any other events in its grounds, but there is a stadium there to hold events if needed and plenty of room for club games without looking sparse when played. Again, as an outsider, I dont understand the whole Fraher field and Walsh Park divide between east and west. I get there is an underlying issue that is always there between the regions, but surely having one top class stadium is better than 2 below average mediocre ones? A co development with WIT, Munster council and south east tourism/sports development on a Carriganore site, just off the motorway with plenty of green field space makes a huge amount of sense to me. Tinkering with an inner city ground with no scope of large scale development and not being future proof is very much papering cracks until the issue arises once again in ten years or so.
hardybuck wrote: » Also, can anyone point out any other county, or indeed any sport, that has closed their urban based ground and developed a green field site?
TheScoringGoal wrote: » Parnells and Ballymun in Dublin, to varying degrees of success. In fairness I don't think either make a definitive argument for or against your underlying point. My biggest concern is where Ryan says that when Walsh Park is done they can turn their attention to Fraher. This is crazy. Waterford can manage one stadium. Now is the time to decide which one. If he goes ahead with this we will be back in exactly the same situation.
hardybuck wrote: » Parnells actually did the exact opposite. They sold land out by the airport for a fortune and moved back into their catchment area in Coolock. The club are literally a laughing stock in Dublin because they went broke afterwards and alienated their player base by drafting in airports. Ballymun as a club were only founded in 1969, and were out in a place cut off from everywhere and had no facilities anyway. You'll find plenty of clubs who did this sort of thing, but no grounds of any significance have gone this route to my knowledge.
TheScoringGoal wrote: » Apologies you're right Parnells are in Coolock. I was aware of the amount of money they spend on games development officers and they speculated a bit by buying and building at their new site. But no wonder they went into hardship if they started building airports there
bruschi wrote: » Any sport? It regularly happens in a lot of other sports. Look at soccer clubs in England who have relocated. Most of Germanys big clubs have all had their stadiums out of the city centre. A lot of American football teams relocated inner city stadiums to bigger sites outside the city. Here is an article that discusses some soccer clubs moves away from city centres. http://www.stadiumguide.com/moving-places-how-far-do-clubs-go-to-get-a-new-stadium/ I'd much rather a ground that was in an open dedicated sporting facility area, close to better road networks that didnt have parking over peoples front gates. It wouldnt take a whole lot to have shuttle busses or public transport from centres to grounds either if required, but how many people travel to Walsh Park on public transport anyway? I'd say it would be minimal. Not an insurmountable challenge. You'd be able to have more dedicated parking spaces on a green field site than parking spaces used in the city centre by people travelling in cars.
HatchetMan7 wrote: » The clubs have no backbone, they were threatened with more levies and bottled it.
dboss wrote: » From what I hear and see these business men who only hang around the Waterford senior hurling team are out of touch with the GAA .These hangers on are not involved in GAA clubs they dont relies how hard it is to come up with 2000 euro to pay county levels ,They dont relies how hard it is to knock on the same door within the community to buy a lotto ticket,Deise Draw tickets , A ticket for development work in our own club. Clubs dont need this debt. Walsh park will be grand we wont have to sleep there (I hope ) . How much did the county senior teams run over budget last year ? Why is there such a Gap bewteen football and hurling budgets. What has happen with our underage success why arent we competing in Munster finals ?Why is football so bad at county level when clubs represents us well in Munster. If these men really care about Waterford GAA these are the questions that need answering, I'd settle for great teams rather than flashy facilities we need more money & people pumped in at underage level, All our county teams are under funded at all levels hurling and especially football and Can someone please inform Eamon Keane that Walsh Park will be the home of Waterford GAA not Waterford hurling and while your at it will you remove the hands of these business men from his h*** and tell him stop being a puppet for these so called Waterford hurling men SORRY Waterford GAA men
deiseach wrote: » I understand the preference some people have for Carriganore, but the notion that the choice is between paradise there and hell in Walsh Park is ridiculous. It's impossible to have a discussion with people who think that the Walsh Park option is wrong on every level when the reality is that all the options (including Fraher) have their strengths and weaknesses. The proposals for Walsh Park are a huge improvement on what we have. They may not be perfect, but you know what perfect is the enemy of.
