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Go-Ahead Dublin City Routes - Updates and Discussion

Stephen15

So since the last thread on this got closed and dosen't appear to be reopening any time soon. Heres a new one for you.

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punisher5112

Stephen15 wrote: »

I know their longer than the WS class which are quite small and not much bigger than an old City Imp minibus. I have yet to see one in the flesh but I would have thought they would be a similar length to WV class bus which managed on the 59 or are they longer.

They are longer

punisher5112

I don't think the tail swing is big on the new ones though.

Nothing worse then a big tail swing when dealing with Dublin bus stops.

Designs of stops are shockingly bad and parking not enforced etc etc.

KD345

Today was the first real example of Go-Ahead operating current routes. From monitoring things this morning, Go-Ahead were pretty well organised. Buses were all smartly presented and operated mostly on time. The big disappointment for me was with the NTA. Not one stop had a new timetable, all the old times remained which meant passengers were looking at incorrect information. The real time was not functioning and there seemed to be nobody from TFI on twitter replying to confused passengers looking for information.

This has been planned for months and is one of the biggest changes in the Dublin bus network. There was no excuse whatsoever for having no timetables on stops and shelters, not having real time displays and apps working, and absolutely no excuse for not having somebody online replying to passengers looking for information.

This changeover should have been flawless. It’s so frustrating seeing people on Twitter looking for information. We urgently need a TFI timetable page for passengers where all routes are displayed. This could be created in a few hours. There should be someone from TFI scanning all social media to reply to queries when routes change.

vectorvictor

KD345 wrote: »

Today was the first real example of Go-Ahead operating current routes. From monitoring things this morning, Go-Ahead were pretty well organised. Buses were all smartly presented and operated mostly on time. The big disappointment for me was with the NTA. Not one stop had a new timetable, all the old times remained which meant passengers were looking at incorrect information. The real time was not functioning and there seemed to be nobody from TFI on twitter replying to confused passengers looking for information.
.

Have to echo this.

NTA are really showing themselves to be an ill-prepared amateur outfit.

Go-ahead seem to have things together. Well presented fleet, drivers smartly outfitted and who were either cleverly chosen or who got a very good customer service course.

Alot of positive feedback from 175 users and they seem built to deal with things i.e. multiple times when stuck in traffic between 8am and 9am I have heard drivers being radioed to tell them their next duty is covered and run the return empty to make their third duty on time.

Alot of English accents on the radio so I think we are getting the benefit of people brought in with experience of running a solid operation

devnull

vectorvictor wrote: »

Have to echo this.

NTA are really showing themselves to be an ill-prepared amateur outfit.

That's assuming the issues are down to the NTA and not other factors external to both them and Go-Ahead.

The bus stop situation is less clear, there has been talk that the bus stops belong to Dublin Bus and now the last I heard because of this we might start to see some NTA and Dublin Bus stops next to each other.

CramCycle

devnull wrote: »

You're making an assumption that the issues are down to the NTA, there are more than two parties involved in this matter.

Maybe not exactly but they are the overarching Project Managers for this, considering the timescales etc. the buck does stop with them as far as Joe Public is concerned. If it could not be delivered to a certain level by that date, they should have flagged that months ago.

punisher5112

devnull wrote: »

That's assuming the issues are down to the NTA and not other factors external to both them and Go-Ahead.

Db have been kicked out of it so please explain?

I think it's shocking bus stops have no info whatsoever.

All around say Dundrum, Dalkey, dun Laoghaire etc it's blank stop poles with a white sticker pull off on stop which had new extended display boards fitted.

Thc nta need to up their game as it's extremely poor.

I had people constantly at me today about the rtpi, where is my bus, what happened to it, excuse me what did you say ...... Yada yada yada

I shouldn't have to be putting up with this as I'm trying to drive as it's extremely stressful and can be distracting.

Isn't it funny how luas and train drivers are paid a lot more and have to deal with none of this none whatsover, yes they may well carry more but God they don't have to deal with half not even 25% of what we have to.

AlekSmart

vectorvictor wrote: »

Have to echo this.

NTA are really showing themselves to be an ill-prepared amateur outfit.

Go-ahead seem to have things together. Well presented fleet, drivers smartly outfitted and who were either cleverly chosen or who got a very good customer service course.

Alot of positive feedback from 175 users and they seem built to deal with things i.e. multiple times when stuck in traffic between 8am and 9am I have heard drivers being radioed to tell them their next duty is covered and run the return empty to make their third duty on time.

Alot of English accents on the radio so I think we are getting the benefit of people brought in with experience of running a solid operation

This is known as "Regulation" and is standard practice across the bus industry,it certainly has been standard practice in Bus Atha Cliath.

One wonders will there be Tweets now giving out about Go-Ahead Vehicles displaying "Out Of Service",as they "return empty" to make their time ?

As the reality of poor Traffic Management and even poorer Bus priority,becomes known to GA,then the need to make the Radio Call will disappear as the "extra-work" duty will be automatically deployed and the service driver will automatically "Blank it out" when reaching the terminus....;)

However,these practices are essentially accepting and deeming inevitable,these lost scheduled trips,and replacing them instead,with additional ad-hoc journeys,all of which have to be accounted for under the contract (presumably).

"Covered" Journeys all require additional resources to operate,and this carries with it a cost. :eek:

Stephen15

KD345 wrote: »

Today was the first real example of Go-Ahead operating current routes. From monitoring things this morning, Go-Ahead were pretty well organised. Buses were all smartly presented and operated mostly on time. The big disappointment for me was with the NTA. Not one stop had a new timetable, all the old times remained which meant passengers were looking at incorrect information. The real time was not functioning and there seemed to be nobody from TFI on twitter replying to confused passengers looking for information.

This has been planned for months and is one of the biggest changes in the Dublin bus network. There was no excuse whatsoever for having no timetables on stops and shelters, not having real time displays and apps working, and absolutely no excuse for not having somebody online replying to passengers looking for information.

This changeover should have been flawless. It’s so frustrating seeing people on Twitter looking for information. We urgently need a TFI timetable page for passengers where all routes are displayed. This could be created in a few hours. There should be someone from TFI scanning all social media to reply to queries when routes change.

Ile give it to them for today it was a Sunday traffic wasn't too bad if people looked at the journey planner the timetabled information was likely fairly accurate for today for those reasons. If the issues persist throughout the coming days or worse still weeks then that would completely unacceptable.

The thing is the NTA are on a bit of a learning curve at the moment switching from a just a regulator to also being a provider of public transport. I thought they sorted out the real time issue with 175 but it appears not and they are now having difficulty with the other routes which have now switched over. Look at the whole livery fiasco aswell.

On another I notice GAI buses are using running numbers. I wonder was this something decided by GAI themselves or by the NTA.

KD345

devnull wrote: »

That's assuming the issues are down to the NTA and not other factors external to both them and Go-Ahead.

The bus stop situation is less clear, there has been talk that the bus stops belong to Dublin Bus and now the last I heard because of this we might start to see some NTA and Dublin Bus stops next to each other.

Either the NTA are responsible for passenger information or they’re not. If they were not ready to launch bus timetables and real time information to passengers today then they should have pushed the date back. This has been in the works for over a year now, any potential issues should have been ironed out before now.

AlekSmart

devnull wrote: »

That's assuming the issues are down to the NTA and not other factors external to both them and Go-Ahead.

The bus stop situation is less clear, there has been talk that the bus stops belong to Dublin Bus and now the last I heard because of this we might start to see some NTA and Dublin Bus stops next to each other.

Currently there is a programme to rebrand 1,700 shared Bus Stops specific to the BMO programme.
This is a stopgap,in advance of the longer-term programme to replace ALL Bus Stop infrastructure in the GDR.

devnull

KD345 wrote: »

Either the NTA are responsible for passenger information or they’re not. If they were not ready to launch bus timetables and real time information to passengers today then they should have pushed the date back. This has been in the works for over a year now, and potential issues should have been ironed out before now.

Sure but do you understand that if they keep pushing things back if they were not perfect then nothing would ever get launched and that kind of mindset would lead to situations where people would intentionally drag their heels to delay something that they didn't want to happen in the first place?

Theory and practice are two different things unfortunately, you can have all the agreements and processes written you like, but if someone doesn't play ball, despite saying they would, or something unexpected happens then that all goes out of the window. I'm not saying that it's happened here, but still.

Dublin Bus should have informed their patrons that their services were moving to another company via a news article but they decided to just not bother informing them as well, so believe me they don't come out of this smelling of roses either because any publicly funded operator should do better than that.

Also it's not like timetables changing and not being updated at bus stops is a new thing, it was endemic during network direct and a short while after, at that point many of the buses couldn't even display the correct route information on the front of them, in some cases this went on for weeks rather than days!

I certainly agree that today's launch has not been ideal and of course the NTA are going to have to take their share of the blame for that since some of this could have been foreseen and it could have been handled different. Lets see what the rest of the week brings, hopefully whatever issues there are because I agree the public deserve better.

punisher5112

devnull wrote: »

Sure but do you understand that if they keep pushing things back if they were not perfect then nothing would ever get launched and that kind of mindset would lead to situations where people would intentionally drag their heels to delay something that they didn't want to happen in the first place?

Theory and practice are two different things unfortunately, you can have all the agreements and processes written you like, but if someone doesn't play ball, despite saying they would, or something unexpected happens then that all goes out of the window. I'm not saying that it's happened here, but still.

Dublin Bus should have informed their patrons that their services were moving to another company via a news article but they decided to just not bother informing them as well, so believe me they don't come out of this smelling of roses either because any publicly funded operator should do better than that.

Also it's not like timetables changing and not being updated at bus stops is a new thing, it was endemic during network direct and a short while after, at that point many of the buses couldn't even display the correct route information on the front of them, in some cases this went on for weeks rather than days!

I certainly agree that today's launch has not been ideal and of course the NTA are going to have to take their share of the blame for that since some of this could have been foreseen and it could have been handled different. Lets see what the rest of the week brings, hopefully whatever issues there are because I agree the public deserve better.

It's widely known services were been taken.

Why should db have to?

I don't understand to be honest?

Why should they brunt the cost and not getting paid?

GA took over it's up to them to tell the people.

vectorvictor

Stephen15 wrote: »

On another I notice GAI buses are using running numbers. I wonder was this something decided by GAI themselves or by the NTA.

What are running numbers?

vectorvictor

punisher5112 wrote: »

GA took over it's up to them to tell the people.

Why? Go-ahead are operating "on behalf of" NTA so it's not their job. NTA are getting the fare box and are the ultimate "provider" so it's their job

devnull

punisher5112 wrote: »

It's widely known services were been taken.

Why should db have to?

I don't understand to be honest?

Why should they brunt the cost and not getting paid?

GA took over it's up to them to tell the people.

Because they're supposed to be a public service company who serves the public before their own interests, unlike those evil, commercial companies who put their private interests ahead of that of the passenger?

Writing an article on the front page saying the routes will no longer be operated by Dublin Bus and to go to Transport for Ireland or Go-Ahead doesn't cost anyone any money and it will help the public, who they allegedly put first.

If one operator of a public bus service can't even bear to utter the name of the other company operating on the same network and pretends they don't exist, that says a lot about the chances of having a proper, integrated transport system that this city really does deserve.

Stephen15

vectorvictor wrote: »

What are running numbers?

Drivers displaying their duty number at the front of the bus. GAI are using a four digit code.

Stephen15

devnull wrote: »

Because they're supposed to be a public service company who serves the public before their own interests, unlike those evil, commercial companies who put their private interests ahead of that of the passenger?

Writing an article on the front page saying the routes will no longer be operated by Dublin Bus and to go to Transport for Ireland or Go-Ahead doesn't cost anyone any money and it will help the public, who they allegedly put first.

If one operator of a public bus service can't even bear to utter the name of the other company operating on the same network and pretends they don't exist, that says a lot about the chances of having a proper, integrated transport system that this city really does deserve.

Look at the 75 for example there are two stops on that route in Dundrum which are no longer being used. A passenger could have turned up at one of those stops only to discover that those stops are no longer being served.

KD345

devnull wrote: »

Sure but do you understand that if they keep pushing things back if they were not perfect then nothing would ever get launched and that kind of mindset would lead to situations where people would intentionally drag their heels to delay something that they didn't want to happen in the first place?

Theory and practice are two different things unfortunately, you can have all the agreements and processes written you like, but if someone doesn't play ball, despite saying they would, or something unexpected happens then that all goes out of the window. I'm not saying that it's happened here, but still.

Dublin Bus should have informed their patrons that their services were moving to another company via a news article but they decided to just not bother informing them as well, so believe me they don't come out of this smelling of roses either because any publicly funded operator should do better than that.

Also it's not like timetables changing and not being updated at bus stops is a new thing, it was endemic during network direct and a short while after, at that point many of the buses couldn't even display the correct route information on the front of them, in some cases this went on for weeks rather than days!

I certainly agree that today's launch has not been ideal and of course the NTA are going to have to take their share of the blame for that since some of this could have been foreseen and it could have been handled different. Lets see what the rest of the week brings, hopefully whatever issues there are because I agree the public deserve better.

I understand the points you make, but if you are the regulator and take on the responsibility of creating a transport brand (TFI) then you need to stand up to that role. Whatever is going on behind the scenes it is unacceptable that there is somebody standing at a bus stop this evening with an incorrect timetable and no real time information. If they check the Dublin Bus there is no information and there is no help on Twitter.

You’re right there were issues with timetables and displays during the first phase of Network Direct, but subsequent phases were mostly all timely and correct, and some of these changes were far more widespread across the city than what we had today. I don’t think we should be using problems that occurred 7 years ago as an excuse. If anything, the NTA should have learned from any past errors.

punisher5112

vectorvictor wrote: »

Why? Go-ahead are operating "on behalf of" NTA so it's not their job. NTA are getting the fare box and are the ultimate "provider" so it's their job

Then it's not up to db.....

punisher5112

devnull wrote: »

Because they're supposed to be a public service company who serves the public before their own interests, unlike those evil, commercial companies who put their private interests ahead of that of the passenger?

Writing an article on the front page saying the routes will no longer be operated by Dublin Bus and to go to Transport for Ireland or Go-Ahead doesn't cost anyone any money and it will help the public, who they allegedly put first.

If one operator of a public bus service can't even bear to utter the name of the other company operating on the same network and pretends they don't exist, that says a lot about the chances of having a proper, integrated transport system that this city really does deserve.

Seriously...

NTA.....

vectorvictor

punisher5112 wrote: »

Then it's not up to db.....

Didn't say it was

Stephen15

What really should have happened was that the information on the DB website and app should have migrated onto the TFI website and apps over the last couple months and also the DB social media should have migrated over to TFI social media pages.

punisher5112

vectorvictor wrote: »

Didn't say it was

dublinman1990

I read that service information notice today from the TFI website about updated timetables. I only read it from one of the posters here today via one of TFI's tweets. It is a very good notice advising passengers of the changeover to GAI in Dun Laoghaire but why was this information not placed throughout all of the affected Dublin Bus stops well in advance of today's launch with GAI?

Things could have gone a lot smoother for the passengers affected with them being the new operator to operate the route because the passengers will get notice about it well in advance. It's very disappointing and poor form to hear from the NTA that they did not give updated information to passengers about new timetables on Go-Ahead's launch in Dun Laoghaire today.

A small note of advice & a thank you note from Dublin Bus to advise passengers that they were ending services on these routes on Saturday would have nice for the passengers to know they were no longer operating the service from today.

Hearing that Go-Ahead have been having a good start to today's launch is very good to hear.

DublinBus Stuff have updated their Go-Ahead article to include today's launch with lovely new photographs of their routes in Dun Laoghaire.

http://www.dublinbusstuff.com/PhotoWeek/GoAhead.html

punisher5112

dublinman1990 wrote: »

I read that service information notice today from the TFI website about updated timetables. I only read it from one of the posters here today via one of TFI's tweets. It is a very good notice advising passengers of the changeover to GAI in Dun Laoghaire but why was this information not placed throughout all of the affected Dublin Bus stops well in advance of today's launch with GAI?

Things could have gone a lot smoother for the passengers affected with them being the new operator to operate the route because the passengers will get notice about it well in advance. It's very disappointing and poor form to hear from the NTA that they did not give updated information to passengers about new timetables on Go-Ahead's launch in Dun Laoghaire today.

A small note of advice & a thank you note from Dublin Bus to advise passengers that they were ending services on these routes on Saturday would have nice for the passengers to know they were no longer operating the service from today.

Hearing that Go-Ahead have been having a good start to today's launch is very good to hear.

DublinBus Stuff have updated their Go-Ahead article to include today's launch with lovely new photographs of their routes in Dun Laoghaire.

http://www.dublinbusstuff.com/PhotoWeek/GoAhead.html

Seriously???

Do you think one company would want to promote they are loosing a service????

I don't get this as GA wouldn't do it.

n!ghtmancometh

devnull wrote: »

Sure but do you understand that if they keep pushing things back if they were not perfect then nothing would ever get launched and that kind of mindset would lead to situations where people would intentionally drag their heels to delay something that they didn't want to happen in the first place?

Theory and practice are two different things unfortunately, you can have all the agreements and processes written you like, but if someone doesn't play ball, despite saying they would, or something unexpected happens then that all goes out of the window. I'm not saying that it's happened here, but still.

Dublin Bus should have informed their patrons that their services were moving to another company via a news article but they decided to just not bother informing them as well, so believe me they don't come out of this smelling of roses either because any publicly funded operator should do better than that.

Also it's not like timetables changing and not being updated at bus stops is a new thing, it was endemic during network direct and a short while after, at that point many of the buses couldn't even display the correct route information on the front of them, in some cases this went on for weeks rather than days!

I certainly agree that today's launch has not been ideal and of course the NTA are going to have to take their share of the blame for that since some of this could have been foreseen and it could have been handled different. Lets see what the rest of the week brings, hopefully whatever issues there are because I agree the public deserve better.

It's impressive that you can always make something Dublin Bus's fault. Even when it plainly has nothing to do with them, and is a failure of the NTA and the privatised service operator, who have messed up something as basic as stops and timetables and passenger notifications. Truly impressive on your part.

devnull

punisher5112 wrote: »

Seriously??? Do you think one company would want to promote they are loosing a service????

I would expect a public company that has been set up to serve the public first and foremost and has stated it is better than private companies because of that, to do whatever is in the best interests of the public rather than what is best for it's own commercial interests, because isn't the whole idea of public companies, that they do not have any commercial interests? Isn't that the argument the hard left have had against commercial operators?

I don't get this as GA wouldn't do it.

Go-Ahead already are directing people to the Transport for Ireland Journey Planner and the Real Time Ireland application which acknowledges the existence of Dublin Bus. They've also posted a press release detailing expansions to Dublin Bus service and that this is good news.

It seems the big bad commercial company who we're often told will always put it's agenda ahead of that of the passengers is in fact making more of an effort to give integrated information to the public, than the company which supposedly set up to put the public ahead of themselves.

I want an integrated transport system where the customer is king and comes before any petty internal politics and squabbles, because I will always be on the side of the many people of this country who use public transport, rather than the few who are just looking out for their own interests, because I firmly believe that public services must put the public way before anything else.

KD345

punisher5112 wrote: »

Seriously???

Do you think one company would want to promote they are loosing a service????

I don't get this as GA wouldn't do it.

I disagree. The passengers of the 59, 63, 75 etc have been Dublin Bus customers for years. Put aside your reasoning for a second and understand that those loyal passengers deserve a bit of consideration from all of the groups - Dublin Bus, Go Ahead and TFI. It would cost Dublin Bus nothing to have a notice on their front page today with a link to TFI for more details on route changes. Remember, many of those affected will continue to be Dublin Bus customers on other routes, it is not fair to punish them by removing any information which might assist their journey.

And to correct you, Go-Ahead are mentioning Dublin Bus on their website news, with details of the expansion to Dublin Bus services.

https://www.go-aheaddublin.ie/newsroom-2/press-release-national-transport-authority/

devnull

n!ghtmancometh wrote: »

It's impressive that you can always make something Dublin Bus's fault. Even when it plainly has nothing to do with them, and is a failure of the NTA and the privatised service operator, who have messed up something as basic as stops and timetables and passenger notifications. Truly impressive on your part.

Because whilst the NTA have clearly not had a great day today, Dublin Bus have not exactly helped the matters either as KD345 has pointed out in their previous post. It would have cost them nothing to put up a page on their website to direct people, but they chose not to which is a shocking way for a public company to act towards the public that they are supposed to be passionate about serving.

The bus stops situation is complex because Dublin Bus owns the stops from what I have been told by people and someone from one of the companies has told me that there may have to be DB and TFI stops next to each other because of this. This is not something I make up in my head, even the FAQs on the Go-Ahead website have been updated to reference that we may have a situation where DB and TFI stops are close together.