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Child Item

What would you do if your 15-year old daughter......

Snickers Man

Here's a probable scenario. Your 15 year old daughter goes to a party in a friend's house. Some of the kids there are a few years older than her. One of the boys, aged 17, who has had a couple of beers decides that he likes the look of your pretty daughter and inveigles her into a bedroom whereupon he throws her on the bed and tries to pull her clothes off against her will.

She resists and tries to scream, he puts her hand over her mouth and, in the presence of another friend continues what is by any sense of the term a sexual assault. Your daughter manages to break free and escapes from the room.

When she gets home, deeply traumatised, she confides in you as caring and sensitive modern parent(s) what has happened. So what do you do?

a) call the police and make a complaint

b) tell her to get over herself, that boys will be boys, they're only after one thing and what were you thinking about going to a party with older alcohol-swilling teenagers while you were dressed in that getup

c) sympathise with her, tell her it's a regrettable rite of passage and to bide her time. If he ever arises to a position of responsibility we'll take that skeleton out of his closet and rattle it in front of the general public

d) comfort and reassure her, tell her that regardless of youth and inexperience that sort of behaviour is unacceptable for any young man, insist that he is confronted with it in the presence of his parents and/or schoolteachers if appropriate, demand an apology from him and make it clear that he is never to think of indulging in such behaviour again, that no more will be said about it unless it becomes known that he has repeated the deed in which case this will be made known to whoever is the subsequent wronged party?

I would like to think that I would have chosen option d, if my daughter were ever the victim of such an assault and that if my son had ever done such a thing (both are long past their teens now) the parents of the girl in question would have behaved similarly with us. We would have been most grateful to them, and would have made clear to him the severity of what he had done.

I also like to think we would have equipped him with enough cop-on and manners that he would never have thought of doing such a thing in the first place but the world is a dangerous place.

What do any parents here think?

I know, this is probably not a political thread in itself but given what is going on in the US Senate at the moment.....

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Johnnyhpipe

Where is option e) which involves me, him, a surgical scalpel, a gallon of diesel, a syringe, barbed wire, a bag of lime, a length of rope and an abandoned hunting lodge up the wicklow mountains?

sheroman01

I don't think OP is trolling, and maybe he knows someone in a similar, horrible ordeal. The fact any sane person could even consider any other option is beyond belief. It is literally condoning rape and sexual assault if you don't contact the guards. You even mention the "US politics of now". Yes, please factor that in, along with the whole 'me too' campaign, which is to bloody stop this criminal and despicable behavior. **** sake. Call the guards. End of discussion.

The Talking Bread

Johnnyhpipe wrote: »

Where is option e) which involves me, him, a surgical scalpel, a gallon of diesel, a syringe, barbed wire, a bag of lime, a length of rope and an abandoned hunting lodge up the wicklow mountains?

Is "him" the person who who chooses the option wherein they sympathise with the rapist and tells his daughter to "get over it" ? Because, tbh, that is almost just as bad behaviour and attitude towards women

professore

Snickers Man wrote: »

Here's a probable scenario. Your 15 year old daughter goes to a party in a friend's house. Some of the kids there are a few years older than her. One of the boys, aged 17, who has had a couple of beers decides that he likes the look of your pretty daughter and inveigles her into a bedroom whereupon he throws her on the bed and tries to pull her clothes off against her will.

She resists and tries to scream, he puts her hand over her mouth and, in the presence of another friend continues what is by any sense of the term a sexual assault. Your daughter manages to break free and escapes from the room.

When she gets home, deeply traumatised, she confides in you as caring and sensitive modern parent(s) what has happened. So what do you do?

a) call the police and make a complaint

b) tell her to get over herself, that boys will be boys, they're only after one thing and what were you thinking about going to a party with older alcohol-swilling teenagers while you were dressed in that getup

c) sympathise with her, tell her it's a regrettable rite of passage and to bide her time. If he ever arises to a position of responsibility we'll take that skeleton out of his closet and rattle it in front of the general public

d) comfort and reassure her, tell her that regardless of youth and inexperience that sort of behaviour is unacceptable for any young man, insist that he is confronted with it in the presence of his parents and/or schoolteachers if appropriate, demand an apology from him and make it clear that he is never to think of indulging in such behaviour again, that no more will be said about it unless it becomes known that he has repeated the deed in which case this will be made known to whoever is the subsequent wronged party?

I would like to think that I would have chosen option d, if my daughter were ever the victim of such an assault and that if my son had ever done such a thing (both are long past their teens now) the parents of the girl in question would have behaved similarly with us. We would have been most grateful to them, and would have made clear to him the severity of what he had done.

I also like to think we would have equipped him with enough cop-on and manners that he would never have thought of doing such a thing in the first place but the world is a dangerous place.

What do any parents here think?

I know, this is probably not a political thread in itself but given what is going on in the US Senate at the moment.....

A. For me. It's dangerous predatory behaviour.

professore

uncommon_name wrote: »

I would like to think I could go with option "D" as the kid is 17 years old.
He probably doesn't know the consequences of what he is doing. He doesn't realize that if it is reported to police that this will affect him for the rest of his life. If it is dealt with by parents or whoever necessary and you accept the apology and make sure he knows not to do it again then you have taught him a lesson and he shouldn't do it again.
However, if he has done it before or ever does it again, then it should most definitely be reported to the police.

Bull****. I knew full.well.at 17 that kind of crap is not ok. As did any decent guys. And this was back in the macho 80s.

weldoninhio

Snickers Man wrote: »

Here's a probable scenario. Your 15 year old daughter goes to a party in a friend's house. Some of the kids there are a few years older than her. One of the boys, aged 17, who has had a couple of beers decides that he likes the look of your pretty daughter and inveigles her into a bedroom whereupon he throws her on the bed and tries to pull her clothes off against her will.

She resists and tries to scream, he puts her hand over her mouth and, in the presence of another friend continues what is by any sense of the term a sexual assault. Your daughter manages to break free and escapes from the room.

When she gets home, deeply traumatised, she confides in you as caring and sensitive modern parent(s) what has happened. So what do you do?

a) call the police and make a complaint

b) tell her to get over herself, that boys will be boys, they're only after one thing and what were you thinking about going to a party with older alcohol-swilling teenagers while you were dressed in that getup

c) sympathise with her, tell her it's a regrettable rite of passage and to bide her time. If he ever arises to a position of responsibility we'll take that skeleton out of his closet and rattle it in front of the general public

d) comfort and reassure her, tell her that regardless of youth and inexperience that sort of behaviour is unacceptable for any young man, insist that he is confronted with it in the presence of his parents and/or schoolteachers if appropriate, demand an apology from him and make it clear that he is never to think of indulging in such behaviour again, that no more will be said about it unless it becomes known that he has repeated the deed in which case this will be made known to whoever is the subsequent wronged party?

I would like to think that I would have chosen option d, if my daughter were ever the victim of such an assault and that if my son had ever done such a thing (both are long past their teens now) the parents of the girl in question would have behaved similarly with us. We would have been most grateful to them, and would have made clear to him the severity of what he had done.

I also like to think we would have equipped him with enough cop-on and manners that he would never have thought of doing such a thing in the first place but the world is a dangerous place.

What do any parents here think?

I know, this is probably not a political thread in itself but given what is going on in the US Senate at the moment.....

I’d go with a) coupled with e). I’d go to the cops, do the concerned parent thing in the hope more than expectation that he’d get more than a slapped wrist.

I’d also make sure he got a visit he would never forget from some people he’d never forget and a hiding he’d never forget.

whatdoicare

A lot of people here seem unaware this is a description if the Kauvanagh (is it that case or was there abother one recently...I cant keep up anymore)case and are what people online,/in a courtroom/in politics are accusing the young girl of/blaming her for not doing/excusing him for and the start of the #whyIdidntreport movement.

In answer to the question, no, I wouldn't let her be dragged through court to be humiliated and tortured so he can walk...I would just have him forcefully escorted to a quiet area where I'd break his legs, ruin his sports career, then his reputation and finally make sure all future expectations such as college or a well paying job are no longer an option to him.

professore

whatdoicare wrote: »

A lot of people here seem unaware this is a description if the Kauvanagh (is it that case or was there abother one recently...I cant keep up anymore)case and are what people online,/in a courtroom/in politics are accusing the young girl of/blaming her for not doing/excusing him for and the start of the #whyIdidntreport movement.

In answer to the question, no, I wouldn't let her be dragged through court to be humiliated and tortured so he can walk...I would just have him forcefully escorted to a quiet area where I'd break his legs, ruin his sports career, then his reputation and finally make sure all future expectations such as college or a well paying job are no longer an option to him.

The Kavanaugh case is very different, it's heavily tainted by politics, there is zero corroborating evidence from.anyone even her best friend, and could well be recovered memories of something that never happened. The original post is something happened to your daughter and you immediately find out about it.

BBFAN

Jesus H Christ, what moron read the OP and didn't realise the OP was trying to create a slur against Ms Ford??

Who by the way, AFAIK, didn't tell her parents about the original incident so the whole premise is bull****.

deco nate

BBFAN wrote: »

Jesus H Christ, what moron read the OP and didn't realise the OP was trying to create a slur against Ms Ford??

Who by the way, AFAIK, didn't tell her parents about the original incident so the whole premise is bull****.

This whole thread should be in the politics forum. And the title changed, can't believe it has lasted this long. It is a political post and then should be in the right forum, no matter the footnote.

Paddy OFurniture

I'd hurt him. Hard.

_Whimsical_

If the threat of a criminal record and imprisonment has not deterred him from committing an assault in the first place is it really likely that a stern talking to by his parents after is going to have him think " I better not do that again" ?

Irish Guitarist

Snickers Man wrote: »

I would like to think that I would have chosen option d, if my daughter were ever the victim of such an assault and that if my son had ever done such a thing (both are long past their teens now) the parents of the girl in question would have behaved similarly with us. We would have been most grateful to them, and would have made clear to him the severity of what he had done.

Any teenage boy that does this should be grounded for at least a week as well as having their X Box, or whatever the kids are playing nowadays, taken off him. These little rapscallions need to be taught that this is the height of rudeness.

Outlaw Pete

Option F: tell her that me and her mother have been following her all night and know that she wasn't even at a party and feel she should seek help for making shit up.

sbsquarepants

uncommon_name wrote: »

.
Imagine having to have that conversation with your own parents, the girl you done it to and her parents. Imagine how much torture that would be at 17 years old. I think that would be enough to make you never even think about it again.

If told my father I tried to rape a girl but she escaped he would have kicked me up and down the street - and rightly so. If my son (18 now) tells me the same, he may expect the same.

We don't tolerate rapists in my family!

suicide_circus

I'd advise her to wait 30 odd years until the boy in question is going for a top job and then go public producing not a shred of evidence and have her own witnesses not remember the party let alone the event.

Snickers Man

BBFAN wrote: »

Jesus H Christ, what moron read the OP and didn't realise the OP was trying to create a slur against Ms Ford??

Who by the way, AFAIK, didn't tell her parents about the original incident so the whole premise is bull****.

No. I really was not trying to create a slur against Ms Ford. I was just pondering what the best thing to do faced with a similar situation to what Ms Ford described. And what other people thought/think.

I will admit this thread was first imagined as a result of the controversy panning out in the US Senate, and was originally in the Politics forum, but there are two separate issues: how one would deal with such a crisis in real life, and how one would exploit it if one were enmeshed in the US political system.

As earlier respondents have already pointed out, Ms Ford DIDN'T tell her parents about her ordeal, but then she doesn't seem to have told the police at the time either.
Stands to reason; if you can't tell mum and dad why would you brave an encounter with an unfamiliar policeman? That is an ongoing issue with claims of sexual assault in any jurisdiction. Many of them go unreported, and one cannot blame any young lady for being reluctant to do so.

But then how should one handle such an event?

My firm point of view is that the time to deal with a horny 17 year old with boundary issues is when he's a horny 17 year old. Does anybody seriously think that raising the matter after 35 years is ideal? There is zero chance of a conviction and all the Kavanaugh/Ford case has achieved has been to enmesh a serious issue with political infighting. It has nothing to do with best practice in dealing with such an issue today; it has everything to do with trying to block an unsavoury character (as many would see him) being appointed to the Supreme Court. Ms Ford's rights and feelings play second fiddle to that.

I also get the knee jerk reaction of many here suggesting imaginative ways of dealing with such a teenage miscreant involving barbed wire, baseball bats and blow torches but if we're being serious, are these really good answers?

And the age-old question persists about going to the police: is it worth it? As soon as you make it a criminal case all the benefit of the doubt HAS to go to the accused. Sorry, but that's it. Any ambiguous or contradictory evidence has to be interpreted in the manner most favourable to the accused. That goes for ANY criminal trial.

Also the four options I put up (later by default adding the fifth: beat the dung out of him) were only first-stage actions. I didn't walk through all the potential consequences.

EG if you chose the "have a word with his parents" option and it resulted in their complete co-operation, an unreserved apology and acknowledgement of
wrong doing by the young man then that would seem to be the best option. But if instead you were met with a stubborn refusal to engage, the immediate appointment of a lawyer on their behalf and a hardline "we're admitting to nothing and apologising for nothing" response, then you might consider the police (or the baseball bat) as a secondary option.

I'm glad it's a situation I never had to face.

uncommon_name

sbsquarepants wrote: »

If told my father I tried to rape a girl but she escaped he would have kicked me up and down the street - and rightly so. If my son (18 now) tells me the same, he may expect the same.

We don't tolerate rapists in my family!

Exactly. That's why I think sort it out this time without involving police.
If my 18 YO brother done something like that I would beat him up and down the street also, that doesn't include what my parents would do too.

I don't think any family would tolerate a rapist......

harry Bailey esq

Snickers Man wrote: »

I was thinking of making that option 5.

And I'm sure it would be a popular one. But still not the best one.

Ah come now a broken jaw and a few swings of sewer rod to the knees would soften his cough. Wait till he turns 18 though.

Snickers Man

Jentle Grenade wrote: »

I feel sorry for the OP's kids. What kind of parent puts some stranger who has sexually assaulted their kid ahead of their own kid? Even hypothetically it's quite disturbing.

Well they're not kids any more. They're adults. And they seem to be doing OK too. (All down to their mother, of course)
Thanks for your concern.

Penn

Snickers Man wrote: »

My firm point of view is that the time to deal with a horny 17 year old with boundary issues is when he's a horny 17 year old. Does anybody seriously think that raising the matter after 35 years is ideal? There is zero chance of a conviction and all the Kavanaugh/Ford case has achieved has been to enmesh a serious issue with political infighting. It has nothing to do with best practice in dealing with such an issue today; it has everything to do with trying to block an unsavoury character (as many would see him) being appointed to the Supreme Court. Ms Ford's rights and feelings play second fiddle to that.

But it's important to remember that in that specific case, Ford came forward about what happened before Kavanaugh was nominated, just when she heard he was on the shortlist. She wasn't trying to make it a political thing, and she likely never would have come forward about it if he wasn't on the shortlist. But she felt it was important that Senators knew about her claim before they made their decision to nominate him when they could have picked a different option from the shortlist. No one would have ever heard of Ford, and most would have never heard of Kavanaugh. Maybe the accusation could have been investigated privately, and if nothing found, notify Ford of same and maybe Kavanaugh gets on the shortlist again next time.

I agree it's become a complete political issue in most regards, but the blame for that doesn't lie with Ford. Both the Republicans and the Democrats are responsible for that.

Ford's case and how it's been handled aren't examples of anything because of how unique so many of the circumstances are. But on the other hand, people's reactions to it can speak volumes about themselves and their attitudes to sexual assault.

B0jangles

Snickers Man wrote: »

EG if you chose the "have a word with his parents" option and it resulted in their complete co-operation, an unreserved apology and acknowledgement of
wrong doing by the young man then that would seem to be the best option.

So he puts on his 'so so sorry face' for 5 minutes and it's all good, he's free to go off and do the same thing to the next girl that he fancies? And if that girl happens to be a friend of your daughter's, she'll get to hear how there's no point even reporting it because your parents will be more worried about him than about her?

Snickers Man wrote: »

I'm glad it's a situation I never had to face.

So am I, so are most of the posters in this thread, probably because you seem to find it much easier to empathize with the potential suffering of an imaginary attempted rapist than that of your own imaginary daughter.

edit: jesus, you have kids? I hope for their sakes they never come across this thread.

Snickers Man

B0jangles wrote: »

you seem to find it much easier to empathize with the potential suffering of an imaginary attempted rapist than that of your own imaginary daughter.

You think?

Given what happened in the recent Belfast rugby rape trial, and given the grilling that Ms Ford is going through at the moment, albeit as a mature adult accomplished in her field and therefore more likely to have a very thick skin than a young teenager, don't you think that an alternative approach that might spare one's daughter such an ordeal might be better?

Like I said, once you make it a criminal case, once it goes anywhere near a court the accused gets all the benefit of the doubt, including any doubts that can be raised about the accuser's credibility.

Yeah, I'm only thinking about the young man in this situation :rolleyes:

meeeeh

I'm treating this as completely imaginary situation. When two 17 year olds pin down a girl and try to forcefully rape her then I would most definitely encourage her to go to police. If she refused I'd contact parents and school and at least try to limit their further actions. I don't believe 17 year old is not aware of consequences, they might be prepared to take bigger risks but I don't believe they will suddenly see the error of their ways.

Also I could never forgive myself if another girl was found raped and possibly dead and it would turn out it was same people. Whatever about commuting sexual assault assuming the victim can be persuaded into sex despite them saying no, but when violence or threats are used then I think perpetrators are well beyond pep talk.

Tombo2001

Is this one of those victim blaming threads?

B0jangles

Snickers Man wrote: »

You think?

Given what happened in the recent Belfast rugby rape trial, and given the grilling that Ms Ford is going through at the moment, albeit as a mature adult accomplished in her field and therefore more likely to have a very thick skin than a young teenager, don't you think that an alternative approach that might spare one's daughter such an ordeal might be better?

Like I said, once you make it a criminal case, once it goes anywhere near a court the accused gets all the benefit of the doubt, including any doubts that can be raised about the accuser's credibility.

Yeah, I'm only thinking about the young man in this situation :rolleyes:

Have you considered that it might be something of an ordeal to see the person who attempted to rape you suffering no actual consequences from their actions, to have your own parents agree that there is no real chance of justice, that the best you can hope for is a mealymouthed 'apology' and a promise to 'never ever do such a thing again, cross my heart and hope to die?'

Just lie down and accept it, fighting will only make it even worse?

F*ck that.

Snickers Man

B0jangles wrote: »

Have you considered that it might be something of an ordeal to see the person who attempted to rape you suffering no actual consequences from their actions, to have your own parents agree that there is no real chance of justice, that the best you can hope for is a mealymouthed 'apology' and a promise to 'never ever do such a thing again, cross my heart and hope to die?'

Just lie down and accept it, fighting will only make it even worse?

F*ck that.

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Is this one of those victim blaming threads?

Not at all. The line from the outset is that the hypothetical (although based on real world events) actions by the young man were wrong, unacceptable, uncondonable.

There is no perfect outcome. I'm just wondering what people think is the best. Or maybe the least worst.

Tombo2001

Snickers Man wrote: »

Not at all. The line from the outset is that the hypothetical (although based on real world events) actions by the young man were wrong, unacceptable, uncondonable.

There is no perfect outcome. I'm just wondering what people think is the best. Or maybe the least worst.

Yes - and the premise for the thread is about her and her people not dealing with it the right way.

As if any of us - if we were "hypothetially" in that situation 30 years ago - would know the "right way" to deal with it

Complete nonsense of a thread, victim blaming and highly provocative and offensive.

It is perfectly easy to raise a question about how we should raise our kids, and how we would behave in a particular situation - in the Parenting Forum - and without dragging somebody in a real life situation through the dirt.

Neyite

My son knows that if someone doesn't want you to touch them and tells you so, you stop. You stop right away. He is six.

If he can get that incredibly simple concept and has an ability to apply it, so can the average teen.

B0jangles

The perfect outcome is:

1.) The victim learns that if you tell your parents, or other people you trust about a crime committed against you, they will listen to you, believe you, and will do everything they can to make sure you get justice (real justice).

2.) The perpetrator learns that if you commit a crime there will be consequences (real consequences) that may well follow you around for the rest of your life.