Should Dublin ban Burqas and Hijabs?

Wibbs wrote: »

That was the survey I linked earlier. They didn't say that. They did say they thought being gay shouldn't be legal and that gay people shouldn't be teachers of kids.

And tbf, I only had a quick look at that poll, but it was of 1000 Muslim's.
No indication of how they picked the people for the poll, or where they picked them from? ( I could be wrong, I just had a quick look)
There are 2.8 or something million Muslim's living in the UK, 1000 is hardly indicative of the whole population.
& yes I know how polls work.

dennispenn wrote: »

There was a poll done in the UK a couple of year's ago,cant recall who did the poll, channel 4 I think. It asked Muslims about gay people, and the majority of them wanted them thrown in jail.

Think about this for a moment. They didn't just see homosexuality as a sin they actually wanted them in jail.

That was the survey I linked earlier. They didn't say that. They did say they thought being gay shouldn't be legal and that gay people shouldn't be teachers of kids.

dennispenn wrote: »

You are probably asking the wrong person.

The Islamic cultural center is the place to ask this, the one in clonskeagh.

Irish people are torrent people,in general.

Most Islamic countries will not tolerate homosexuality or apostasy. Punishment is more than a fine,if you escape with your life you will have done well.

There was a poll done in the UK a couple of year's ago,cant recall who did the poll, channel 4 I think. It asked Muslims about gay people, and the majority of them wanted them thrown in jail.

Think about this for a moment. They didn't just see homosexuality as a sin they actually wanted them in jail.

I assume then you are OK with Muslim people coming here seeking asylum if they are gay?

dennispenn wrote: »

The people you know that drink like fish probably aren't Muslims,but would probably come out as gay to their families before saying that they are not Muslims because of the apostate threat that hangs over them.

What sect of Muslims are these friends?

Well they've not been friends as such. General acquaintances to more close acquaintances(I personally think of friends as more than that over time). They were all Sunni, save for one Shia Iranian. Libyans, Afghanis, Pakistani(though more Afghani. The cultural border can fluid, depending on area), one Jordanian and an Egyptian if memory serves. All but one was/is male. They varied, as people will, on how adherent they were. There were cultural differences. I found the Afghan dudes the most easy going funny enough and against expectation. Bloody genuine too. Extremely family and brotherhood orientated. Then again with all I got the overall general impression that me being a bloke was a big factor.

bubblypop wrote: »

What's your point?
Do you think Muslim gay people should deny who they are?

You are probably asking the wrong person.

The Islamic cultural center is the place to ask this, the one in clonskeagh.

Irish people are torrent people,in general.

Most Islamic countries will not tolerate homosexuality or apostasy. Punishment is more than a fine,if you escape with your life you will have done well.

There was a poll done in the UK a couple of year's ago,cant recall who did the poll, channel 4 I think. It asked Muslims about gay people, and the majority of them wanted them thrown in jail.

Think about this for a moment. They didn't just see homosexuality as a sin they actually wanted them in jail.

Omackeral wrote: »

Definitely yes... if they happen to find themselves in an Islamic country such as Afghanistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia or Qatar, where they'd legally be allowed to be executed for simply being who they are.

So, that's a problem with those countries. & I agree. I could maybe end up in prison etc if I was living in one of those countries & did something against their laws. Which I don't necessarily agree with, BTW.
But it still stands that there are gay Muslim, of course. Why wouldn't there be?

bubblypop wrote: »

What's your point?
Do you think Muslim gay people should deny who they are?

Definitely yes... if they happen to find themselves in an Islamic country such as Afghanistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia or Qatar, where they'd legally be allowed to be executed for simply being who they are.

Omackeral wrote: »

Yep. You know that being Muslim is a choice? Must be fairly sh*tty to be Muslim and gay. They'd be killed if they went to the wrong country simply for being themselves.

What's your point?
Do you think Muslim gay people should deny who they are?

Wibbs wrote: »

I'd not be nearly so sure D. Just like Catholics ridin before marriage wearing johnnies and on the pill and plenty of Gay catholics with it, I've known Muslims who drink like fish, do a fair bit o ridin themselves outside the marital bed* and come Friday are done up all religious like, prostrating in the mosque. Gay men and women attending prayers like "Good Muslims"? Wouldn't shock me in the least. It would shock me more if there weren't. Cognitive dissonance, hypocrisy, or just simply fitting in because it's a genuine human comfort has no particular creed, seed or generation.

*one thing I've yet to see is eating pork. That of all things seems really beyond the Pale. The Jewish folks I've known are generally less kosher on that score. Pork is rebel territory mind you, but the other stuff...

The people you know that drink like fish probably aren't Muslims,but would probably come out as gay to their families before saying that they are not Muslims because of the apostate threat that hangs over them.

What sect of Muslims are these friends?

Sheeps

What other non muslim items of clothing would the OP like to ban also?

bubblypop wrote: »

I don't know what you're trying to suggest... You do know gay people are born that way right?

Yep. You know that being Muslim is a choice? Must be fairly sh*tty to be Muslim and gay. They'd be killed if they went to the wrong country simply for being themselves.

dennispenn wrote: »

Not prejudiced at all against your Muslim friends.

I happen to know quite a bit about Islam and Muslims in general. Probably a lot more than you and the average person.

Here's one little factoid. It's not a religious garment. It's simply not but There is a good reason why young girls and grown women wear it and why women's family especially brothers force them to wear it in certain countries.

You can research yourself the predominantly Islamic countries who have banned the veil's.

Are you Muslim?

Omackeral wrote: »

Gay Muslim friends is very niche. Any of them in wheelchairs or Travellers? Perhaps trans?

I don't know what you're trying to suggest... You do know gay people are born that way right?

bubblypop wrote: »

Really?
You know more about my Muslim friends then I do?
Guess again. You are holding onto a prejudice view that all Muslims are radical, wear religious clothing & can't think for themselves beyond their religion.
You are wrong.

Not prejudiced at all against your Muslim friends.

I happen to know quite a bit about Islam and Muslims in general. Probably a lot more than you and the average person.

Here's one little factoid. It's not a religious garment. It's simply not but There is a good reason why young girls and grown women wear it and why women's family especially brothers force them to wear it in certain countries.

You can research yourself the predominantly Islamic countries who have banned the veil's.

dennispenn wrote: »

I wouldn't expect you to know these things but I will tell you that there is no way they lead a gay lifestyle and read the above.

I'd not be nearly so sure D. Just like Catholics ridin before marriage wearing johnnies and on the pill and plenty of Gay catholics with it, I've known Muslims who drink like fish, do a fair bit o ridin themselves outside the marital bed* and come Friday are done up all religious like, prostrating in the mosque. Gay men and women attending prayers like "Good Muslims"? Wouldn't shock me in the least. It would shock me more if there weren't. Cognitive dissonance, hypocrisy, or just simply fitting in because it's a genuine human comfort has no particular creed, seed or generation.

*one thing I've yet to see is eating pork. That of all things seems really beyond the Pale. The Jewish folks I've known are generally less kosher on that score. Pork is rebel territory mind you, but the other stuff...

Gay Muslim friends is very niche. Any of them in wheelchairs or Travellers? Perhaps trans?

dennispenn wrote: »

I doubt this very much.

Do these gay Muslims go to a mosque,
Read the quran hadith and sunnah?

I wouldn't expect you to know these things but I will tell you that there is no way they lead a gay lifestyle and read the above.

Really?
You know more about my Muslim friends then I do?
Guess again. You are holding onto a prejudice view that all Muslims are radical, wear religious clothing & can't think for themselves beyond their religion.
You are wrong.

Edit, tbf I don't ask if they read the Quran, but I don't ask my Christian friends if they read the Bible either!

fly_agaric

KaneToad wrote: »

What Dublin authority would ban them? The GAA county board??

Dublin city council have learned well they can't fart without permission of the govt. (remember the road signs fiasco if you're old enough like me...), but now they'll start telling people what they can & cannot wear out on the street...:pac:

bubblypop wrote: »

I don't need to ask them seeing as they have gay Muslim friends themselves!

I doubt this very much.

Do these gay Muslims go to a mosque,
Read the quran hadith and sunnah?

I wouldn't expect you to know these things but I will tell you that there is no way they lead a gay lifestyle and read the above.

Odhinn wrote: »

I've shown that there is considerably more generosity in the area than you want to give credit for.

No, you did not. I know you might think just typing it means it's a fact, but it's not. Notice the difference between my posts and yours? *Hint* I backed them up with figures from actual citizens of the countries you mentioned. Unless you think the Kuwait Times is ignorant of numbers in, y'know, Kuwait?

You have an overinflated view of the profundity of your own commentary.

*AH Answer* I try not to fly in the face of public opinion.

*Actual answer* You listed numbers, I stated verifiable sources. Compare and contrast.

bubblypop wrote: »

Well, what your suggesting is that we question everyone who wishes to come here on their views on homosexuality etc etc. & then we decide if they suit our views in the same subject. Except that doesn't work, because Irish people have different views about things. Such as Muslims have different views about things.
& who decides 'our views'?

The culture does and it's a fragile thing. If you were born in the 1940's in Ireland you would almost certainly be homophobic and sexist by your own present measure. I linked to a survey of UK Muslims and it showed over half had opinions that you would consider homophobic and those folks are there for generations. Again - and beyond wishful thinking and sure isn't multiculturalism great - why risk importing the problems of other European nations that have discovered to their cost the downsides? Not just for the "locals", the minorities suffer as bad, actually worse in most cases.

Though TBH BP I'm not so sure any number of links or studies from the best sources will really shift your position. I noted you thanked Odhinn's post about ME aid to refugees, almost certainly because you genuinely want and feel it to be true(as most of us would), but it's not nearly so true as his unverified and picked from a hat figures state as fact. Then again when ideology, or for most folks a genuine hope for a better world gets in the way often the first thing to suffer is realities on the ground.

I would have been a multiculturalist in my youth. I still would be to some degree, if it was based on honesty, facts and an acknowledgement of the human condition, but too often it's not. The "Multiculturalism is Great!" camp can be just as delusional as the "No Foreigners!" camp. Both tend to have confirmation bias going on and only facts that suit get let in the mind's door.

dennispenn wrote: »

You have actually asked your friends,muslim friends,are they homophobic?

Try asking them how many gay Muslim friends they have and see the reaction? The usual response is that you cannot be gay and a Muslim.

I don't need to ask them seeing as they have gay Muslim friends themselves!

quintana76 wrote: »

There is zero chance of Leo and other Irish politicians having the balls to ban the Burka.They are begging to take in economic migrants from the Meditarean just to show off their virtuousness.They just say what they think is uncontroversial and popular (especially when trying to curry favour with the EU and Angela Merkel and more recently Macron). They are all just short-sighted globalist stooges.

Yes, but IMHO the purpose of discussions like these is to prepare for the future.

There is no guarantee that Irish politicians or the Irish electorate will continue as they have before. The world is changing rather quickly, and there are pressures in Europe today that were relatively minor a decade ago. The same could be said for Ireland with the drastic shift away from Christianity which wouldn't have been suspected (that it would go so far) a decade ago, and yet, it's one of those defining influences today.

Personally, I view these discussions as information. The media isn't going to portray things as they really are, and we, on boards can find a variety of information both for and against any position simply by reading through a thread. That information arms us (if we feel it's worth remembering) for future conversations, or even when it comes to dealing with political or social issues.

Most humans clarify their positions on a topic through conversation/discussion. Admittedly, there is a trend to shut down debates and encouraging people to accept a nicely 'packaged' viewpoint from various groups, but we should continue to discuss issues like these. There could easily be a future Taoiseach reading boards right now, with no actual interest in politics or social issues, but something like this could galvanize them into taking action. Or not. Either way though, an informed electorate is definitely worth encouraging.

quintana76

There is zero chance of Leo and other Irish politicians having the balls to ban the Burka.They are begging to take in economic migrants from the Meditarean just to show off their virtuousness.They just say what they think is uncontroversial and popular (especially when trying to curry favour with the EU and Angela Merkel and more recently Macron). They are all just short-sighted globalist stooges.

Should the burka be banned in Dublin?

The burka, niqab and any other garment that conceals your identity should be banned and has no place in a civilised Western society. If someone wears these head garments it is a statement that says, $#@& off,im not integrating or conforming to your Western ways.

If the head garments are worn in an Islamic out back like Pakistan,its done through tradition or their laws and ways and to that,i really couldn't care less what they wear there as I would never set foot in those kinda places.

bubblypop wrote: »

Neither my Muslim friends, nor my Irish friends are homophobic.
Like I said I don't tend to be friends with people who's views or beliefs are totally opposite to mine.

You have actually asked your friends,muslim friends,are they homophobic?

Try asking them how many gay Muslim friends they have and see the reaction? The usual response is that you cannot be gay and a Muslim.

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Are you saying your Muslim friends are not homophobic, as your Irish friends are not?

Or they're less?
Or they're more?

Neither my Muslim friends, nor my Irish friends are homophobic.
Like I said I don't tend to be friends with people who's views or beliefs are totally opposite to mine.