Brian? wrote: » I don’t think the hang ups are anything inate. Look ate the societies in Papua New Guinea, the Amazon and so on. Nudity is not taboo.
Merrick Jealous Monogamy wrote: » The time to discuss it is now. We don' write/ change laws and wait and see what the fallout eventually is, we consider the consequences in advance before writing them.
Doctor Jimbob wrote: » I don't understand how someone can make a comment about how women are harassed on a daily basis and yet completely dismiss the possibility of men doing a specific thing to harass women.
PlaneSpeeking wrote: » Oh you would be surprised what mental gymnastics some posters can perform.
LLMMLL wrote: » If getting changed around someone that THEORETICALLY might perv on you is a major concern then isn’t there an issue with gay people changing around straight people of the same gender?
fattymuatty wrote: » I said I wasn't comfortable getting changed around people of the opposite sex, not because perving is a 'major concern'. Like I said I am just not comfortable with it and the same goes for many women and men. I really don't see what the big deal is here. Why don't trans women want to get changed with men? Why aren't we questioning that? Is 'perving a major concern' to them?
Merrick Jealous Monogamy wrote: » "Anyone who disagrees or has any concerns is a transphone and a bigot." And if they're not presenting as the opposite sex? If they look and sound like a man, and dress like a man, and claim to identify as a woman, then what?
vetinari wrote: » Exactly, if all you have is your "feelings" that someone might do something dodgy, then yes you're probably a bigot. There's zero data backing up your position. You clearly feel a level of unwarranted animosity towards trans people. It's literally the definition of bigotry.
LLMMLL wrote: » I’m sure some trans women are comfortable getting changed around men. So You aren’t comfortable getting changed around men. You want a space that accommodates that. Fair enough. Say a straight man isn’t comfortable getting changed around a gay man. How should we accommodate him?
Malayalam wrote: » God, this is exhausting. So if I have no issue with showering/changing beside a lesbian I should thus have no issue showering/changing beside a person with a penis who tells me they are a woman? I don't know why, but yet somehow I do. It's confusing for me at this stage even, but because....feelings...I guess?
LLMMLL wrote: » No I’m asking what accommodations should be made for someone who does have a problem showering with lesbians?
Malayalam wrote: » How the feck would I know. You figure it out. You have all the answers.
Merrick Jealous Monogamy wrote: » Are you trying to suggest that since a man cannot be accommodated in his desire to have a separate shower to gay men, and a woman to shower separately to gay women, that we should all allow anyone to shower wherever they please?
LLMMLL wrote: » No I’m saying a trans person should be able to shower with the gender they identify as.
PlaneSpeeking wrote: » Oh God this is so tiring!!! If you have a problem showering by someone of the same sex - YOU have a problem and should make alternate arrangements. If you are one sex and have a problem with being naked in a venue design solely for your sex - and the opposite sex is there, you do NOT have a problem and that person should not be there. Why is that so hard for some to get ????
Merrick Jealous Monogamy wrote: » Regardless of whether or not they have transitioned?
LLMMLL wrote: » I don’t believe someone who has not transitioned and has made no effort to change their outward appearance would have any interest in using the female changing rooms
LLMMLL wrote: » So you have no idea how someone who doesn’t want to shower with gay people should be accommodated, but you’re absolutely certain that accommodations should be made for you who doesn’t want to shower with trans people. I get you now.
Merrick Jealous Monogamy wrote: » That doesn't answer the question. Do you think that someone who has not transitioned, but claims to identify with the other gender, should be allowed to use the other gender's facilities?
LLMMLL wrote: » Merrick Jealous Monogamy wrote: » Regardless of whether or not they have transitioned? I don’t believe someone who has not transitioned and has made no effort to change their outward appearance would have any interest in using the female changing rooms
fattymuatty wrote: » What does that even mean? I don't give a toss about someones outward appearance, wear what you want I don't care and don't think anyone else here does either. Do you not understand that we have a problem sharing with someone of the opposite sex, of sex segregated spaces being changed to gender segregated without any consultation or thought as to how we might feel about this change? We don't have a problem with how people look, it is about biology.
Malayalam wrote: » First of all I have no problem showering with lesbians. But somehow you are conflating sexual orientation with gender identity and I thought that was a sin. I wouldn't have any issue showering with transitioned women. It would be terrible for them to have to go to the male showers. Or prisons. Or dormitories. But a person with full male sexual characteristics who tells me they are a woman - yeah, write me down as a bigot, but I would feel uncomfortable showering or changing beside them. Fcuk it I accept my transphobia now. Bite me.
