buried wrote: » I dunno, the Old Testament God didn't shy away from dishing out the grief and trouble to everybody, which is what everybody everywhere has to go through in the end anyways.
indioblack wrote: » Fair enough - although we were debating the existence of God. Good post.
brightspark wrote: » No we were originally debating why humans believe in God "If religion is all make believe and nonsense then why does nature allow humans to have such faith in the first place?"
brightspark wrote: » Assuming he isn't offering up human sacrifices etc., just why do you feel you need to rob him of a mental support he has had all his life?? It's a tough life, people need all the help they can get mentally as well as physically.I don't believe in "God", but I sometimes envy those who do, it would take some of the pain away..
indioblack wrote: » This man has more of the fire and brimstone in his belief. He said my disbelief would have consequences - so I debated with him. It wasn't acrimonious. We're friends as well as workmates.
buried wrote: » You can create your own God for yourself. I like to follow the Moon, always want to see a new one when I can, always like to go outside and see it when its there in all its glory. The ancients believed it was a God/Goddess, whether it was called Luna, Celine all of that. Worshipping a God is basically looking up to a higher power, longer lasting than ourselves, that you can awe at. The moon isn't a bad option to fill that need. And its actually there too.
_Brian wrote: » Yes. I always thought Athiests had no belief at all. Turns out they are an anti religion religion, they believe it’s theor job to knock people who have a faith - this in itself is sadder than any belief in god.
buried wrote: » What does he say about the New Testament version?
brightspark wrote: » Unfortunately I can't believe in Luna any more than Jehovah. The moon is a just a slightly smaller rock than the one we live on. It's not a "higher power". Thanks for trying (I really hope you were and not just being sarcastic, can't tell)
beveragelady wrote: » God is omnipotent. God is good. Babies die of starvation . The third statement is true. That means one of the other two definitely isn't. The above reasoning is very simple. You will not convince me that believers have not arrived at it themselves, decided not to think too hard about it, and just keep pretending like everybody else. Anyway, back to the point. The story of human evolution is the story of an evolving society. In our ape-like days we migrated from trees to veld. We needed to see over tall grass so we stood up. this left our hands free so we picked things up. We began to master complicated tasks, so our brains grew. Giving birth to something with a giant head is dangerous, so we gave birth to half-formed helpless blobs that need round-the-clock care for years. In order to provide this care we formed families, the nucleus of society. Families became communities. We devised rules, a moral code, language and music and mythology to give meaning and structure to our society. * For the majority of human history life was 'solitary, poor, nasty, brutish and short.' Death was arbitrary, often agonising. People changed religion in accordance with the political powers that could take their livelihood or their lives. Pretending to subscribe to a particular fairy tale and the whimsical rules that are attached to it gave a measure of security. There's a reason that the more educated you are the more likely you are to be an atheist. (Does anybody else have a problem spelling 'atheist'? I get it wrong EVERY time. So much for the enlightening power of education.) * I know I'm cheating on cause and effect.
buried wrote: » Nah wasn't being smartarse man, I genuinely do that, it helps me anyways. Going outside on a clear night is great for the mind. But you need to be away from the urban streetlight gloom. Give it a try coming into winter with the dark nights and the thin atmosphere, weather permitting of course
beveragelady wrote: » I do this too! I have a vantage point where I have strung a hammock and any evening since the start of June, if it wasn't raining or I wasn't busy, and if moonrise was at a reasonable hour, I installed myself in my hammock to watch the moon come up on the other side of the valley. I do it during the winter too, but less often.
buried wrote: » Class! Ah the moon is brilliant, did you see it the nights of the 'Rose Moon' in mid June? It came up full up from the south east, had the red glow all about it and a haze of mist over it like a crown where I was. The Thursday night I think it was. Fantastic sight. I try to tell my friends to look out for these things but they don't bother, they just not into it. I love the fact its sort of 'my thing' within my group and have it for myself anyways.
Kaysen Obedient Tan wrote: » In many ways I wish I could believe in a god. But then at the same time, when I look at the state of things, I actually think that if there were a god then that would be a horrifying notion. I don't think it's surprising or difficult to understand why/how so many people can believe in a god though. But the continued belief in, or support for, organised religion is something I'll just never understand.
HappyAsLarE wrote: » Religious teachings are Humankind’s way of passing down morales and knowledge to the next generation. Carry the cross - bear personal responsibility even if it is torture. Sacrifice the lamb - don’t chase what is expedient, but what is worthwhile. Rise from the dead - there is a way back from Hell. Etc, etc. Chimps function in society limited by number of members. Humans have used religion to live in tribes of millions by using religion.
Kermit.de.frog wrote: » If religion is all make believe and nonsense then why does nature allow humans to have such faith in the first place? Darwin is survival of the fittest and nature perfects the most efficient organic machines on the planet. So why then would this natural order of precision and efficency allow the human brain to accomodate faith of any kind? Surely it shouldn't if it's deleterous and make believe.
Stanford wrote: » " religion is all make believe and nonsense"...no one can say this is a scientific fact, it is true for believers and untrue for others who do not believe it.
Stanford wrote: » You are confusing choice with belief, everyone has a choice as to what they believe.
Kermit.de.frog wrote: » If religion is all make believe and nonsense then why does nature allow humans to have such faith in the first place?
Kermit.de.frog wrote: » And if it does that means there must be a benefit to faith or else nature wouldn't facilitate it.
brightspark wrote: » Assuming he isn't offering up human sacrifices etc., just why do you feel you need to rob him of a mental support he has had all his life??
brightspark wrote: » It's a tough life, people need all the help they can get mentally as well as physically.
brightspark wrote: » Religion may be the opium of the people, but some people need it just to survive.
The Rape of Lucretia wrote: » As a best available solution maybe. In the millennia before education, science, literacy, mass communication not controlled by superstitious cults, equality, and democracy. Which has now well and truly superceeded that inferior system.
