prinzeugen wrote: » I was stuck on a train in the UK that had caught fire for 2 hours years ago. It was a bit smokey and there was no announcements as all the power had been cut, but people sat tight and didn't complain or try to jump off.
devnull wrote: » As far as I'm aware Rail Users Ireland is a Rail Users Organisation and the people who are involved in it are publicly named on their website using their real names rather than using an alias on Boards.ie so I wouldn't necessarily agree that it was the same since honestly. When an incident like this happens, Irish Rail should be providing the information to the people on the train. They should not have to go on Twitter to find out. The simple fact is there have been several reports of lack of communication and however much you try to deflect that in a way that a certain PR spokesman does, there is no getting away from it.
Trasna1 wrote: » If you're going to be stuck on a commuter train where the delay could be an hour plus, within spitting distance of a station, then of course the passengers should be detrained.
Hilly Bill wrote: » Idiots and drink don't mix, make them get the bus next time.
Hilly Bill wrote: » OK, i get it that you are involved with that other anti rail site. On a train packed with drunken rowdy passengers who wasn't listening to announcements made to stand clear of the doors in the first place, what other means of communication would you have used?
prinzeugen wrote: » The list of reasons why people should stay on the train is longer than why they should get off one and walk down the track.
devnull wrote: » Well you'd say, but there are accounts from a Rail Users organisation suggesting otherwise and numerous other reports of a lack of other communication and pretty much nothing to back up any point of view to the contrary. Come on, both of us know that maybe people were drunk and didn't act the best way, but you know that Irish Rail are hopeless at handling communication, it's nothing new to anyone who commutes with them regularly. The 5 day a week commuter knows how it is!
devnull wrote: » Ah, so the other usual deflection tactic that I commonly see, if you can't find someone else to blame for a problem, try and make the problem that of someone else in future so it's no longer a worry of yours. Anything to avoid actually dealing with taking actions to help prevent the same things happen in the future I guess. My recent time in a new job with ex and current public sector workers has taught me that mentality is pretty common. If we took that attitude towards safety in aviation for instance, we'd have a lot more fatal accidents because if you keep blaming the people who make bad decisions rather than analysing why they made those bad decisions, the bad decisions will keep happening.
devnull wrote: » You sat on a train for two hours that caught fire and people just sat tight like nothing had happened? I'm sorry but I don't believe that, because in situations like that people will panic, I've seen it first hand because that is simply human nature. Reassurance is important and can help to calm people down. As I've said before, I've been on trains when people have been in somewhat of a panic, and being kept informed has calmed them down somewhat. The only time I have seen people do things which are less than desirable has been when communication is bad.
devnull wrote: » I have no involvement with Rail Users Ireland whatsoever. I've seen nothing to suggest announcements were made. You've appeared to speculate that you think they may have been made, but I'm seeing very little to back that up, whilst there are many people who have come out with accounts that suggest there was no communication, including a Rail Users Group who are happy to put their real names to their statements. In most cases yes, but not all and you have to remember when a human brain is in a state of panic or becomes worried or confused then it does not think as rationally or calmly as someone like you or me who is typing a message on a keyboard in reply to this thread. Human beings are not robots.
prinzeugen wrote: » We had a fire in the Aviva Stadium a few years back during a football match. Lots of smoke but people did not panic or run from the building so its not true that that is what people will always do. Most people usually start to panic at the last minute when they are in real danger.
Hilly Bill wrote: » The fact that the twitter feed was in overdrive would knock the suggestion of no communication out the window.
Stephen15 wrote: » Was it caused by ultras with flares. Fans involved with pyro displays at football matches are hardly going to panic due something they did on purpose.
devnull wrote: » When an incident like this happens, Irish Rail should be providing the information to the people on the train. They should not have to go on Twitter to find out for themselves. Saying that when an incident happens that people should have to go searching for the information rather than providing it to them is essentially stating that the passengers should look after themselves because Irish Rail aren't going to try to. All this from a so called public service as well that just leaves the public to fend for itself. They exist to serve the public but don't want to make any effort to do so and instead expect the public to do it themselves. Personally I just care about people and giving them the best service, communication and experience possible. I don't see them as an inconvenience. I guess I just have higher standards than many others.
prinzeugen wrote: » So you think people should detrain every time there is a delay?
Hilly Bill wrote: » You still have failed to provide a solution to giving passengers information when the driver is out of the cab. If he made the announcement before he left the cab are you happy then or did you expect him to pop back and forth with updates until he's finished checking the train?
hatrickpatrick wrote: » Give the drivers walkie talkies or even apps that let them communicate with the passengers remotely through the PA. Maybe let HQ do the same. We're in the 21st century, wireless communication while away from one's desk is kinda a thing these days :pac:
goingnowhere wrote: » HQ had the ability to make PA's to any train but took it out...
devnull wrote: » Irish Rail are abysmal with their communication though. Every single time one of these situations happen that always comes through loud and clear and it's far easier to blame other people for their actions than try and prevent them happening in the first place. I've been on trains that are stranded in many places over the last 10 years and it's no co-incidence that the ones I've been on that have been calm have been those with communication and the ones where people turn around and start doing things such as apparently happened last night, are where there has been no communication. Pointing the finger at the passengers and saying it is all their fault and viewing communication with passengers during an incident is optional is laughable but says what we already know - passengers are an inconvenience to Irish Rail that they must tolerate but would rather they didn't have to.
yesto24 wrote: » I disagree. Having been the victim of a lack of communication from Irish rail I think the more people do this and the more disruption they cause they because of the this the better. It should make Irish rail up their game with regards to communication. Long may this"disruption" continue.
hatrickpatrick wrote: » Yes. Irish Rail's policy with regard to delays should be, as a first priority, to give onboard passengers the choice to get off the line and walk to their destination or seek an alternate mode of transportation.
hatrickpatrick wrote: » Stopping a train full of passengers for an extended period of time and effectively falsely imprisonong them onboard is complete bullsh!t
hatrickpatrick wrote: » if a train is going to be delayed, they should find a way to facilitate people getting off at a matter of urgency.
hatrickpatrick wrote: » Some people have deadlines to make, other modes of public transport to catch, etc which make being trapped on a train for an extended period of time totally unacceptable, particularly in the middle of the night.
hatrickpatrick wrote: » Once again, the issue is Irish rail not treating their customers as the most important element in any "situation". As a public service, this is what they should do without exception. Train is delayed, fine - it happens. Passengers get a choice to remain onboard and wait, or get off and make their own way to wherever they were going. There are multiple ways in which this could easily be facilitated, from pulling up another train to transfer people to as is done on Dublin Bus, to temporarily closing that stretch of track so as people can safely walk to the nearest station platform.
hatrickpatrick wrote: » It's Dublin City FFS, it's not as if there's ever more than a ten minute walk between dart stations anyway. Whole situation could be resolved within 20 minutes in terms of getting passengers off a broken down train and to the nearest platform if they actually have a bollocks about not screwing up peoples' plan for the rest of their day.
end of the road wrote: » Communication may have prevented it but cop on to not walk on a live railway would have also prevented it. People who detrain and walk the tracks when not authorised by irish rail staff should be prosecuted. unless there is a serious fire and escaping to another carrige is not possible, or there is god forbid a rail crash, you have no business detraining and walking the tracks unless authorised.
and it will hopefully make them bring prosecutions against those people for breaking the railway bi-laws.
devnull wrote: » And if this kind of approach to safety culture was taken in the aviation world and other sectors then there would be a lot more deaths from aviation accidents in the last few years because we'd be blaming pilots for doing stupid things that would keep being repeated rather than actually trying to prevent them from doing it in the first place. It reminds me of Donald Trump talking about guns, saying that people were to blame for all the mass shootings and without the people they wouldn't have happened whilst doing absolutely nothing to prevent the situation from happening again. It's complete deflection at it's best and the same things will keep happening unless you try and do something to prevent them. The crime of Irish Rail is not that the people got off the train by their own free will, it is the fact that there were a group of human beings on that train who Irish Rail simply didn't even bother to try and reassure. For a so called public service company, that shows a complete lack of due care, which unfortunately comes as no surprise to the average Irish Rail commuter I guess. When Irish Rail has it's own house in order, then it should start going around and blaming other people. What you are essentially promoting is a blame culture and if there is a blame culture in something that involves public safety there is little wonder that there have been serious questions asked about the safety culture in Irish Rail. Heaven forbid a public service might care about the public that it is supposed to serve. Heaven forbid that someone with anxiety might be on the train and panic, heaven forbid that humans are not robots who have emotions and feelings and some people are claustrophobic and nervous travellers. I guess that is just their problem and who cares about them, really?
Jamie2k9 wrote: » If all the communications issues are correct, the driver and the CTC manager should be disciplined and forced to explains there actions..... Somebody will have a lot of explaining to the RSC this week.
