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Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread III

Quin_Dub

This thread is for the continuing discussion of Donald Trumps's presidency in the US and any related matters.

Please ensure that you are familiar with the charter before posting.

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pixelburp

So it turns out Trump likes tearing up pages once he's done reading them, throwing them on the floor / into the trash - problem is, it's completely against the law as White House correspondence has to be archived and recorded. A bunch of WH aides have (or had anyway, the article chats with an ex-staffer) to scoop up his rubbish, reassembling it back with tape so they can forward it on to the National Archives.

Like, can we just park the politics of the man / administration for a moment... that's an objectively farcical scenario. Particularly the idea that the WH can't persuade Trump NOT to tear up the papers when he's done.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/06/10/trump-papers-filing-system-635164

Under the Presidential Records Act, the White House must preserve all memos, letters, emails and papers that the president touches, sending them to the National Archives for safekeeping as historical records.

[...]

But White House aides realized early on that they were unable to stop Trump from ripping up paper after he was done with it and throwing it in the trash or on the floor, according to people familiar with the practice. Instead, they chose to clean it up for him, in order to make sure that the president wasn’t violating the law.

[...]

“I had a letter from Schumer — he tore it up,” [Solomon Lartey] said. “It was the craziest thing ever. He ripped papers into tiny pieces.”

[...]

The White House did not comment on the president’s paper-ripping habit. According to Young and Lartey, staffers in the records department were still designated to the task of taping together the scraps as recently as this spring.

Kermit.de.frog

pixelburp wrote: »

So it turns out Trump likes tearing up pages once he's done reading them, throwing them on the floor / into the trash - problem is, it's completely against the law as all White House correspondence has to be archived and recorded. A bunch of WH aides have (or had anyway, the article chats with an ex-staffer) to scoop up his rubbish, reassembling it back with tape so they can forward it on to the National Archives.

Like, can we just park the politics of the man / administration for a moment... that's an objectively farcical scenario. Particularly the idea that the WH can't persuade Trump NOT to tear up the papers.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/06/10/trump-papers-filing-system-635164

An honest question - what do you even say at this stage?

None of this surprises anyone.

Trump is not fit for the office but we are stuck with him for the next couple of years. It's damage limitation.

Leroy42

RIGOLO wrote: »

The Singapore summit is already off to a good start.

Trump has accepted an invitation from the Singapore Prime Minister to make an official state visit to Singapore in November.
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asia/president-trump-accepts-invitation-state-visit-to-singapore-10419660
The Singaporeans (?) are certainly throwing out the red carpet and Im sure are delighted to have POTUS make 2 visits in such short a space of time. Albeit coninciding with the ASEAN-US summit . Some might call it isolationism (?) but I see it as a an important symbolic as well as real act on DTs part to stay involved in South East Asia regional, political and economic developments.

What exactly were you expecting? That he would be met by a swat team coming off the plane? That the Singapore PM would use a press conference to publicly call Trump out on the Stormy Daniels affair?

What a strange post. The fact that people treating Trump with the respect that POTUS deserves is such a news story to you tells me all I need to know about what you think of Trump behaviour.

You are looking at how they are acting from the POV of how Trump would act, or how you like Trump to act. Luckily the rest of the world, still works on the basis of respect and manners.

Professor Moriarty

RIGOLO wrote: »

The Singapore summit is already off to a good start.

Trump has accepted an invitation from the Singapore Prime Minister to make an official state visit to Singapore in November.
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asia/president-trump-accepts-invitation-state-visit-to-singapore-10419660
The Singaporeans (?) are certainly throwing out the red carpet and Im sure are delighted to have POTUS make 2 visits in such short a space of time. Albeit coninciding with the ASEAN-US summit . Some might call it isolationism (?) but I see it as a an important symbolic as well as real act on DTs part to stay involved in South East Asia regional, political and economic developments.

Cosy up to Singapore while crapping all over Canada, Mexico, the EU and China? Good call. Actually, no. Your point is very silly and meaningless.

weisses

RIGOLO wrote: »

Will it be reports on 'hair-do's' , body language and hand-shake analysis, or will the MSM report on substantive issues.

What do you think RIGOLO ?

If Trump pulls this of why not report on it ?

Seems my posts are gone missing or being deleted, so I asked again

jooksavage

RIGOLO wrote: »

The Singapore summit is already off to a good start.

Trump has accepted an invitation from the Singapore Prime Minister to make an official state visit to Singapore in November.
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asia/president-trump-accepts-invitation-state-visit-to-singapore-10419660
The Singaporeans (?) are certainly throwing out the red carpet and Im sure are delighted to have POTUS make 2 visits in such short a space of time.

or...

GREAT SUCCESS - NO MAJOR DIPLOMATIC INCIDENTS FOR 24 HOURS

Perhaps you haven't followed previous Presidencies as closely but the stuff you're trumpeting as proof of Trump's unparalleled brilliance or the massive regard the world has for him is actually just the normal stuff that goes with being any kind of president, whether you're a Clinton, Trump, Kodos or Kang.

RIGOLO

" normal stuff " .. theres nothing normal about it ...
Its only Kim Jung Un's 2nd visit outside of NK since 2011 when he took office.
And the first meeting of a US President with a NK leader .. absolutely nothing 'normal' about it.
The last event in my lifetime that matched this was the Oslo Accord meeting of Arafat , Clinton and Barak (Ehud not Obama) .
My only worry is that the commemorative coins Ive ordered arrive .

Captain Obvious

RIGOLO wrote: »

" normal stuff " .. theres nothing normal about it ...
Its only Kim Jung Un's 2nd visit outside of NK since 2011 when he took office.
And the first meeting of a US President with a NK leader .. absolutely nothing 'normal' about it.
The last event in my lifetime that matched this was the Oslo Accord meeting of Arafat , Clinton and Barak (Ehud not Obama) .
My only worry is that the commemorative coins Ive ordered arrive .

It's odd then that when the idea of Obama meeting a democrat president came up it was attacked as disgraceful by so many who now support Trump doing it.

Itssoeasy

Kim Jung Un has won already as he's had cnn and msnbc and abc devoting huge coverage to him taking a walk around Singapore. He can use this to his advantage and will. The USA Secretary of State said this morning that the US is willing to put in place security that hasn't happened before. Kim is playing with house money at this stage and president trump has potentially made a bad mistake.

Beechwoodspark

RIGOLO wrote: »

" normal stuff " .. theres nothing normal about it ...
Its only Kim Jung Un's 2nd visit outside of NK since 2011 when he took office.
And the first meeting of a US President with a NK leader .. absolutely nothing 'normal' about it.
The last event in my lifetime that matched this was the Oslo Accord meeting of Arafat , Clinton and Barak (Ehud not Obama) .
My only worry is that the commemorative coins Ive ordered arrive .

Exactly Rigolo, prior to Trump, no President was stupid enough to meet the NK leader in person without major, major concessions agreed.

So it’s not normal. It’s stupid and crazy really but that’s don the con for ya.

Igotadose

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Kim Jung Un has won already as he's had cnn and msnbc and abc devoting huge coverage to him taking a walk around Singapore. He can use this to his advantage and will. The USA Secretary of State said this morning that the US is willing to put in place security that hasn't happened before. Kim is playing with house money at this stage and president trump has potentially made a bad mistake.

Yep, Trump's made Kim important, like he's doing with Putin. All good. From Axis of Evil to, "My two buddies", and trying to make the likes of Canada - Canada! - look like bad guys. Revenge for Canada's invasion in the War of 1812.

briany

You could look at the election of Trump and the vote for Brexit as a result of a 'recession' in political thought. Like any great crash, there are warning signs that are either overlooked and/or wilfully ignored.

And much like an economic recession, I wonder if the period following Trump, and the aftermath of Brexit, will see politics get back to normal, but it'll be a normal that was a little worse than the one before, e.g. following Trump, the election of someone who's only a traditional right-winger such as Ted Cruz would be seen as a return to the statesmanlike values the POTUS is traditionally supposed to hold.

Eric Cartman

Trump has managed a serious win on the NK scenario.

Instead of throwing stones from afar and just mocking Kim Jong Un, he's brought him to the table, treated him like any other leader of a nuclear super power and fed his ego by feigning consideration that he's an actual threat. Now that Kim feels he's at the big boy table he's conceded freeing hostages and scaling back on nuclear weapons, thanks to Donald Trump.

We are now in a scenario thought impossible a few years ago, where NK is behaving like other countries, sitting at the table and communicating for a diplomatic resolution. This is the first time Kim feels that he's talking to a man who might actually glass his communist hell hole out of existence, but appreciates the respect that he's actually being talked to now, not just pontificated at.

This is sales 101 and the upside of letting a businessman do business.

Professor Moriarty

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Trump has managed a serious win on the NK scenario.

Instead of throwing stones from afar and just mocking Kim Jong Un, he's brought him to the table, treated him like any other leader of a nuclear super power and fed his ego by feigning consideration that he's an actual threat. Now that Kim feels he's at the big boy table he's conceded freeing hostages and scaling back on nuclear weapons, thanks to Donald Trump.

We are now in a scenario thought impossible a few years ago, where NK is behaving like other countries, sitting at the table and communicating for a diplomatic resolution. This is the first time Kim feels that he's talking to a man who might actually glass his communist hell hole out of existence, but appreciates the respect that he's actually being talked to now, not just pontificated at.

This is sales 101 and the upside of letting a businessman do business.

Sending a 'businessman' who has six bankruptcies, and who was bailed out by his billionaire father, to do business with Kim? Doesn't compute.

Captain Obvious

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Trump has managed a serious win on the NK scenario.

Instead of throwing stones from afar and just mocking Kim Jong Un, he's brought him to the table, treated him like any other leader of a nuclear super power and fed his ego by feigning consideration that he's an actual threat. Now that Kim feels he's at the big boy table he's conceded freeing hostages and scaling back on nuclear weapons, thanks to Donald Trump.

We are now in a scenario thought impossible a few years ago, where NK is behaving like other countries, sitting at the table and communicating for a diplomatic resolution. This is the first time Kim feels that he's talking to a man who might actually glass his communist hell hole out of existence, but appreciates the respect that he's actually being talked to now, not just pontificated at.

This is sales 101 and the upside of letting a businessman do business.

Nobody thought it was impossible some years ago. Obama said he would do it. Unfortunately, he faced massive resistance from the very people now cheering Trump. And you are mad if you think for one second that Trumps strategy of name calling is what brought NK to the table. There is clearly pressure on NK from elsewhere.

Eric Cartman

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Sending a 'businessman' who has six bankruptcies, and who was bailed out by his billionaire father, to do business with Kim? Doesn't compute.

Strategic bankruptcies , sure many businessmen have done it time and time again. But also what a straw man argument.

Can you just admit that we are on the cusp of a formal end to the Korean War and Donald Trump is the man who put that on the table and got both sides to talk.

Eric Cartman

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Nobody thought it was impossible some years ago. Obama said he would do it. Unfortunately, he faced massive resistance from the very people now cheering Trump. And you are mad if you think for one second that Trumps strategy of name calling is what brought NK to the table. There is clearly pressure on NK from elsewhere.

The threat of being glassed into oblivion by Mad Dog Mattis.

Nody

Eric Cartman wrote: »

We are now in a scenario thought impossible a few years ago, where NK is behaving like other countries, sitting at the table and communicating for a diplomatic resolution. This is the first time Kim feels that he's talking to a man who might actually glass his communist hell hole out of existence, but appreciates the respect that he's actually being talked to now, not just pontificated at.

This is sales 101 and the upside of letting a businessman do business.

Except it's Trump and everyone inc. NK has seen how any deal agreed by USA or Trump has zero value because he's just as likely to turn around and claim it is no longer valid tomorrow in a twitter rant. Hence NK is not going to give up their nuclear weapons or anything else because they know Trump's (and by extension US) word written or not has zero value in practice.

Hence he'll get concessions and ask for money (at a time he can't continue his nuclear program due to the mountain used as a testing site has fallen over; funny how that happen to be when he wanted to talk) but will in no way actually give up power or weapons. And rightly so since Trump has shown US words and deals means nothing in practice.

UsedToWait

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Sending a 'businessman' who has six bankruptcies, and who was bailed out by his billionaire father, to do business with Kim? Doesn't compute.

Sending someone who has just come from a meeting with his greatest allies, agreed a communiqué, then rescinded it with petulant tweets before his wheels had lifted off the tarmac, to do business with an unstable scion of a brutal dictatorship, who no doubt plays better golf than him, does not compute.

Professor Moriarty

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Strategic bankruptcies , sure many businessmen have done it time and time again. But also what a straw man argument.

Can you just admit that we are on the cusp of a formal end to the Korean War and Donald Trump is the man who put that on the table and got both sides to talk.

Strategic bankruptcies? Do you have any idea what that means for the people that The Donald catches? For the taxpayer?

We're on the cusp of two lunatics shaking hands on a deal that has yet to be negotiated while one of the lunatics is alienating almost every single ally that his country has. Or had.

Water John

Yes, we should have the two of them, play a round of golf. 18 holes in one, for each player, would be the total score.

Quin_Dub

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Trump has managed a serious win on the NK scenario.

Instead of throwing stones from afar and just mocking Kim Jong Un, he's brought him to the table, treated him like any other leader of a nuclear super power and fed his ego by feigning consideration that he's an actual threat. Now that Kim feels he's at the big boy table he's conceded freeing hostages and scaling back on nuclear weapons, thanks to Donald Trump.

We are now in a scenario thought impossible a few years ago, where NK is behaving like other countries, sitting at the table and communicating for a diplomatic resolution. This is the first time Kim feels that he's talking to a man who might actually glass his communist hell hole out of existence, but appreciates the respect that he's actually being talked to now, not just pontificated at.

This is sales 101 and the upside of letting a businessman do business.

Trump has given North Korea everything that they've wanted for decades for absolutely nothing in return.

NK want to be seen as a world power , or as you say to sit at the big boy table.. They've got that now , why on earth would they give up the thing that got them there?

If Trump gives them lots of cash via "investments" how will that be different than Obama giving Iran lots of cash ?? (It'll be different in at least one way insofar as the money Obama gave Iran was their money , Trump will give NK tax-payers money).

China don't want a "friendly NK" , they need them as a buffer in the region.. KJU is playing Trump off the Chinese (and pretty smartly too tbf ) , he'll not give up his Nukes and he'll get lots of cash from China and Trump will get left with nothing of note.

everlast75

Genuine question.

Why do Trump supporters post either false or speculative comments in here and then when corrected piśś off and disappear for weeks, before repeating the process months later?

If this NK stuff works out, expect them to stick around and cling to it for dear life.

If not, *poof*

Eric Cartman

everlast75 wrote: »

Genuine question.

Why do Trump supporters post either false or speculative comments in here and then when corrected piśś off and disappear for weeks, before repeating the process months later?

If this NK stuff works out, expect them to stick around and cling to it for dear life.

If not, *poof*

I suppose people who can actually acknowledge the man can do some good don't like all being bundled right into trump supporters camp,

also the giant echo chamber of "but but the bankruptcies , but but pussy grabbing" as rebuttals and the refusal to accept that even thought they hate the guy that he can do some good. In here is just a stonewall of people coming along who when things work, congratulate Obama or say it was happening due to time moving on or 'mysterious external pressure' rather than admit that the man the media told them was a monster, might actually be doing something.

RIGOLO

Things are moving faster than I expected.
CNN are reporting that the Summit, Kim Jungs arrival in Singapore and some of its objectives has already been reported upon in NK both in print radio and state run television, I guess what you would call NK-MSM (cmon folks thats funny).

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/06/11/asia/north-korea-trump-kim-summit-intl/index.html

CNN are saying this is out of the norm as generally they NK regime dont tell the people anything until AFTER events of this stature.

In my opinion this only adds pressure to Kim Jung to come back with something as he has already told his people he is looking to make a deal.
So question I ask is why would Kim announce so much detail to his people , only if he is confident he is going to deliver on some of the content.
Im thinking much of the details of what will be agreed upon and announced post this summit , has already been decided weeks ago via back channels .

They have already agreed the main points, this meeting is for the optics, the PR, the wording and presents a stage to make their joint announcement. Im expecting a major statement out of this summit. I could be wrong, thats okay I can live with that, and keyboard warriors are free to rub it in if I am wrong.

UsedToWait

everlast75 wrote: »

If this NK stuff works out..

The Iran deal was the 'worst deal ever', despite intensive IAEA monitoring.

If the Korean deal does not eclipse it by a long margin, I won't be listening to any crowing from the Trumpists.

I honestly don't understand how any of his fan club are still clinging to their distorted image of the 'achievements' of this Presidency.

Some serious cognitive dissonance happening on the part of those who can't see that this President has alienated his allies, gutted American diplomacy and turned what was a 'swamp' into a cesspool.

Leroy42

Trump didn't bring Kim to the table. Have you forgotten that Trump claimed numerous times that if Kim launched another missile that was it, only for another missile launch a few days/weeks later?

Kim got what he had been working towards, a nuke. Kim has brought Trump to the table. And not only that, Trump has come willingly and without looking for anything in return.

In terms of hostages, you surely are aware that US hostages have been returned from NK before? Trump is not the first POTUS to get that.

So why is this different to the Iran deal? Why have Trump supporters been cheering that the Iran deal was terrible yet are about to enter into the same type of thing with NK yet are going to claim this as groundbreaking.

Trump is clearly being played. He either doesn't realise, or IMO more likely, doesn't care. He is not interested in the long term, just the short term boost.

It is always amusing that had you asked the average American prior to the election what are the serious issues, NK would not have figured very highly. Now apparently it is become enemy No 1 and Trump is the only man to do anything about it.

Do you think if Obama, Clinton, Bush etc had been given basically a blank cheque to bride the NK they would have got a summit? Of course, but those administrations were aware that any deal with NK was worthless. The only difference now is that any deal with the US is also worthless so there really is nothing for either side to lose.

pixelburp

If Trump achieves something tangibly positive in North Korea, that's fantastic, genuinely... but he's still a demonstrably terrible president and a bit of a pox of a man. This summit is coming off the back of a agro & burning bridges between the US and its biggest, most important allies.

Nixon thawed relations between the US and China in 72, a truly decent, memorable achievement - should that isolated highlight then negate all the awful stuff he's arguably more famous for?

One set of peace talks does not a presidency make.

Phonehead

It's pretty obvious what's happening here, Kim will get some cash and make promises to stop his nuclear testing (lol even though we know his facilities have collapsed) Kim has probably also got something from China in his earlier meetings.... Kim has played a blinder here.

Captain Obvious

Phonehead wrote: »

It's pretty obvious what's happening here, Kim will get some cash and make promises to stop his nuclear testing (lol even though we know his facilities have collapsed) Kim has probably also got something from China in his earlier meetings.... Kim has played a blinder here.

Not only will Kim get cash but some suspiciously new companies will likely get large investment opportunities in NK.