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Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread III

Quin_Dub

This thread is for the continuing discussion of Donald Trumps's presidency in the US and any related matters.

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pixelburp

My god, when your man swings so wildly between 2 contrasting points of view, it's no wonder some folks believe Trump is doing great. Here's what Trump said - in person - when asked a question about the conference and the general levels of acrimony between parties:

"I would say that the level of relationship is a 10. We have a great relationship. Angela and Emmanuel and Justin. I would say the relationship is a 10,"

Ok, so everyone's friends, it's just banter folks, nothing to see here. Oh, this comment was made after inquiring of the journalist who he was from, and when discovered it was CNN sneered said "I figured. Fake news CNN. The worst". What a classy, dignified democratic fellow.

No, wait, later he Tweets:

"PM Justin Trudeau of Canada acted so meek and mild during our @G7 meetings only to give a news conference after I left saying that, “US Tariffs were kind of insulting” and he “will not be pushed around.” Very dishonest & weak."

Hard not to draw some dark, cynical conclusions about what Trump sees as typical 'relationships' that you effectively insult and demean others in public, having only just apparently praised them.

Leroy42

2 Scoops wrote: »

Still waiting for the figures Trump spews about unfair trade to be "fact checked".

What? Trump is a known an unapologetic liar. We also know that he has very little time for details. He has even admitted that he makes stuff up (the phone call with Trudeau) just to put the other side off.

Why would anybody bother 'fact-checking' anything he says. At this stage the onus is on Trump to provide evidence that he is not simply making things up.

Nobody, well nobody with anything resembling critical thinking, believes anything he says. He lies, exaggerates, mis-remembers, get confused. There are so many instances of what he says turning out to be either completely false or simply a total misunderstanding of the actual facts, that nothing he says should be taken as correct.

You wouldn't 'fact-check' the known liar in the office. Why would you treat Trump differently?

lawred2

Leroy42 wrote: »

What? Trump is a known an unapologetic liar. We also know that he has very little time for details. He has even admitted that he makes stuff up (the phone call with Trudeau) just to put the other side off.

Why would anybody bother 'fact-checking' anything he says. At this stage the onus is on Trump to provide evidence that he is not simply making things up.

Nobody, well nobody with anything resembling critical thinking, believes anything he says. He lies, exaggerates, mis-remembers, get confused. There are so many instances of what he says turning out to be either completely false or simply a total misunderstanding of the actual facts, that nothing he says should be taken as correct.

You wouldn't 'fact-check' the known liar in the office. Why would you treat Trump differently?

Would it matter? Trump simply waves away facts as fake news and moves on happily.

kunst nugget

Captain Obvious wrote: »

What is a soy boy?

I believe it's used by people with no social skills that spend too much time raging against the world on Americentric forums because nobody likes them. It's a term to denigrate a person's masculinity used mainly, somewhat ironically, by self-hating virgins.

Christy42

2 Scoops wrote: »

Still waiting for the figures Trump spews about unfair trade to be "fact checked".

https://www.indexmundi.com/facts/indicators/TM.TAX.MRCH.SM.AR.ZS/rankings

The US and other first world countries are roughly in line with each other overall. Given this is the main way that countries could unfairly bias trade in their favour I see no evidence of cheating.

The US does indeed have a trade deficit. This is not evidence of cheating nor even a bad thing for the US necessarily. It does have a large services (holidays and financial mostly) that benefits from the goods imported. Note that in the Time magazine link it states that the US has a trade surplus with Canada if services are included (which they should).

Canada does indeed have a tariff of 270% on some dairy products. This is called cherry picking data. As my link above shows tariffs going into the overall tariffs are quite low. Granted that one should come down but the US has similar tariffs on goods like tobacco already. Weird that Trump forgot to mention the US has a tariff of 350% on the go right? (See Time link).

https://www.google.ie/amp/amp.timeinc.net/time/5307687/canada-trade-relationship-trump-trudeau

RIGOLO

Futures markets all responding well to the post G7 fallout, theres been negligible impact with the 'money' men .
In fact some indices are in the green with the dollar up against some currencies.
Meanwhile theres rumours US GDP may hit 4% in the next qtr results, although thats optimistic I think . This following on from the record +3% announced in 2017, a figure (+3%) Obama never even touched. And note this is GDP growth in a growing econmy.
If people dont think Trudeaus domestic performance plays into his international actions then I think thats a basic error.
Its all related in politics, your domestic and your international performance are what the voters respond too. Trudeau is having a 'mare domestically, so of course that plays into the optics of how he thinks he should handle Trump.

Like all things time will reveal the winner, but for now the 'money men' are still firmly in Trumps court. MSM media is choc a bloc with news on this. Just look at the decline in the Mexican peso, the internal strife in Mexican politics, interest rate rises in developing nations and the worldbank bailout for Argentina.
As Trump strengthens American and the dollar everyone around the world is feeling the pinch whether its oil, debt repayments , forex pressure.
Every country is under pressure to reduce its deficits. These things are like the giant super-tankers , before you can turn them around , you have to slow these juggernauts down and that can take 100 miles. For some reason alot of people seem to be against Trump taking any measures to reduce the US deficit and trade deficits. Perhaps its because its Trump.

oscarBravo

2 Scoops wrote: »

Still waiting for the figures Trump spews about unfair trade to be "fact checked".

How do you fact-check someone stamping his little feet and screaming "NOT FAIR"?

Trump doesn't understand how international trade works. Naturally, this requires his disciples not to understand how international trade works either, in order to avoid the mortal sin of disagreeing with the glorious leader.

You can't fact-check Trump's bleatings about unfair trade, because Trump wouldn't know a fact even if it was overcooked and served with ketchup.

But here's a fact for you: 10% of Canada's dairy consumption is imported. 3% of the USA's dairy is imported.

oscarBravo

RIGOLO wrote: »

For some reason alot of people seem to be against Trump taking any measures to reduce the US deficit...

Trump reducing the US deficit. When did this become the comedy forum?

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

Perhaps you can fill everyone in on how you think Trump is strengthening America and the US dollar?

Adding over a trillion dollars to the nation debt. You seem to like GDP, so to put that in GDP terms - ~105%, the highest on record. As I mentioned previously that excludes the post WW2 years.

Can you show any of us the data showing the dollar has strengthened ? Because it looks to me like the dollar has weakened. As I am in Ireland, lets take a look at the EUR/USD. 1.11 (2015), 1.10 (2016), 1.13 (2017), 1.21 (2018*)

You keep believing that Trump is doing a great job? Back it up with real facts.

RIGOLO wrote: »

Futures markets all responding well to the post G7 fallout, theres been negligible impact with the 'money' men .
In fact some indices are in the green with the dollar up against some currencies.
Meanwhile theres rumours US GDP may hit 4% in the next qtr results, although thats optimistic I think . This following on from the record +3% announced in 2017, a figure (+3%) Obama never even touched. And note this is GDP growth in a growing econmy.
If people dont think Trudeaus domestic performance plays into his international actions then I think thats a basic error.
Its all related in politics, your domestic and your international performance are what the voters respond too. Trudeau is having a 'mare domestically, so of course that plays into the optics of how he thinks he should handle Trump.

Like all things time will reveal the winner, but for now the 'money men' are still firmly in Trumps court. MSM media is choc a bloc with news on this. Just look at the decline in the Mexican peso, the internal strife in Mexican politics, interest rate rises in developing nations and the worldbank bailout for Argentina.
As Trump strengthens American and the dollar everyone around the world is feeling the pinch whether its oil, debt repayments , forex pressure.
Every country is under pressure to reduce its deficits. These things are like the giant super-tankers , before you can turn them around , you have to slow these juggernauts down and that can take 100 miles. For some reason alot of people seem to be against Trump taking any measures to reduce the US deficit and trade deficits. Perhaps its because its Trump.

looksee

RIGOLO wrote: »

For some reason alot of people seem to be against Trump taking any measures to reduce the US deficit and trade deficits. Perhaps its because its Trump.

But there is no need for any of the 'alot (sic) of people' to be concerned, not only is Trump not reducing the US deficit, he is increasing it as fast as he can.

Leroy42

RIGOLO wrote: »

Futures markets all responding well to the post G7 fallout, theres been negligible impact with the 'money' men .
In fact some indices are in the green with the dollar up against some currencies.
Meanwhile theres rumours US GDP may hit 4% in the next qtr results, although thats optimistic I think . This following on from the record +3% announced in 2017, a figure (+3%) Obama never even touched. And note this is GDP growth in a growing econmy.
If people dont think Trudeaus domestic performance plays into his international actions then I think thats a basic error.
Its all related in politics, your domestic and your international performance are what the voters respond too. Trudeau is having a 'mare domestically, so of course that plays into the optics of how he thinks he should handle Trump.

Like all things time will reveal the winner, but for now the 'money men' are still firmly in Trumps court. MSM media is choc a bloc with news on this. Just look at the decline in the Mexican peso, the internal strife in Mexican politics, interest rate rises in developing nations and the worldbank bailout for Argentina.
As Trump strengthens American and the dollar everyone around the world is feeling the pinch whether its oil, debt repayments , forex pressure.
Every country is under pressure to reduce its deficits. These things are like the giant super-tankers , before you can turn them around , you have to slow these juggernauts down and that can take 100 miles. For some reason alot of people seem to be against Trump taking any measures to reduce the US deficit and trade deficits. Perhaps its because its Trump.

When Trump first floated the idea of tariffs the stock market took a whack (1000 points I think). But since then they have gone back up because I think the feeling is that Trump is all talk. They simply are not taking him seriously.

His position is clearly dependent on whomever he talks to last, whats on Fox, how he feels. So they are betting that the trade war won't happen as Trump will either see sense or more likely that the others will give him a 'win' so that he can row back.

Look at NK for a perfect example. The world was getting ready for a major conflict, when really all Trump wanted was a photo op. Trump has given in to everything that NK wanted to get the photo op, all the red lines have been cast aside for the future.

Of course all politics is local, just as Trump is speaking to a domestic audience. But you can just as easily, and more so, use Trump in the same way that he and others attack Trudeau, Merkel etc.

It is not the trade deficit that people have an issue with, it is clearly that Trump doesn't understand the workings of international trade. Take Mexico for example. He was going on about a trade deficit of 30bn. 30bn to the US is nothing, but more material to Mexico. But if they stop that then the likelihood is that the Mexicans will be less able to afford US goods, its not simply just cutting it off one way. In addition, there will probably be more immigrants looking to get in, at a cost to the US.

How come Trump is not demanding that Israel (who get bn each year) start to pay money back? Why just the countries he is focused on? Because Israel is of strategic importance to the US. Sometimes it is worth it to keep relationships in your favour.

Frank Bullitt

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1005979207544000512

You know dam well that he only tweeted this because he thinks "Fool Trade" is clever.

kilns

The crazy thing is that he is insulting on a daily basis his closest allies and quickly making them enemies, while on the other hand no doubt he will speak tomorrow about how great Kim is and that they are great friends now.
If you walked into a movie studio with this script they would laugh you out the door

kilns

I wonder why Trump is not calling out Saudi Arabia and Israel on their Trade deficits.....................................................

everlast75

2 Scoops wrote: »

Still waiting for the figures Trump spews about unfair trade to be "fact checked".

How about a contradiction from his own government office?

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1005979207544000512?s=19

https://twitter.com/tedlieu/status/1006022752422191104?s=19

(Sorry for posting links but I'm travelling and can't copy type)

relax carry on

looksee wrote: »

But there is no need for any of the 'alot (sic) of people' to be concerned, not only is Trump not reducing the US deficit, he is increasing it as fast as he can.

Given the insanity of Trumps presidency, is there any danger of the Simpsons reference coming true?

"As you know, we've inherited quite a budget crisis from President Trump," President Simpson told her first meeting of economic advisers in the Oval Office. "How bad is it, Secretary (Milhouse) Van Houten?"

"We're broke."

Christy42

relax carry on wrote: »

looksee wrote: »

But there is no need for any of the 'alot (sic) of people' to be concerned, not only is Trump not reducing the US deficit, he is increasing it as fast as he can.

Given the insanity of Trumps presidency, is there any danger of the Simpsons reference coming true?

"As you know, we've inherited quite a budget crisis from President Trump," President Simpson told her first meeting of economic advisers in the Oval Office. "How bad is it, Secretary (Milhouse) Van Houten?"

"We're broke."

He does seem to be increasing the possibility. However there are a lot of things that could cause that anyway.

everlast75

Professor Moriarty

relax carry on wrote: »

Given the insanity of Trumps presidency, is there any danger of the Simpsons reference coming true?

"As you know, we've inherited quite a budget crisis from President Trump," President Simpson told her first meeting of economic advisers in the Oval Office. "How bad is it, Secretary (Milhouse) Van Houten?"

"We're broke."

It's already happening. The US budget deficit will hit a trillion two years earlier than expected thanks to The Donald's tax cuts and spending increases (not on the poor, of course). For slow learners, this means that The Donald is sacrificing long term financial prudence for short term gain (an ego boost).

Beechwoodspark

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

It's already happening. The US budget deficit will hit a trillion two years earlier than expected thanks to The Donald's tax cuts and spending increases (not on the poor, of course). For slow learners, this means that The Donald is sacrificing long term financial prudence for short term gain (an ego boost).

It’s looking like his administration will go down as the worst in living memory, potentially the worst ever.

Merkl gave him a slap down last night too.

Angela Merkel warns Trump that Europe ‘won’t be had’ again
via The Irish Times
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/angela-merkel-warns-trump-that-europe-won-t-be-had-again-1.3526501

Leroy42

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

It’s looking like his administration will go down as the worst in living memory, potentially the worst ever.

It all depends on your perspective.

If you are interested in how the economy is performing, then he is doing fine (not great as is touted but better than expected).

If you are interested in America throwing its weight around on the world stage and acting the bully then again he is doing a great job.

If you are interested in putting down all those liberals with their equality and being nice and having to care what you say or worry that you need facts to make you right, then once again he is doing great

spacecoyote

2 Scoops wrote: »

Still waiting for the figures Trump spews about unfair trade to be "fact checked".

https://apnews.com/6ffb31982dfd4ea7b4e029d11697a593

AP did some fact-checking.

He spent all his time talking about the tough life of the farmers, when the Farm industry is one of the only areas where the US actually runs a trade surplus globally...

"...THE FACTS: Whatever his beef with farm trade with specific countries, he’s wrong in suggesting U.S. agriculture runs a trade deficit. The U.S. exports more food products than it imports, running a $17.4 billion surplus last year. It’s long been a bright spot in the trade picture and it’s why many U.S. farmers are worried about losing markets as Trump retreats from, renegotiates or disparages trade deals..."

RIGOLO

Lively discussion on CNN Talk with Max Foster this morning.
Podcast should be available later today.

Alot of credit been given to Trump for the Singapore summit, the contributors (well 2 of 3) were effectively stating that if the only thing to come out of this summit is a timeline for further meetings and a successful meet, greet and tweet outcome , then they would consider it a success. A low bar no doubt but given where the starting point was, its progress.
Could be another win for Trump, it will be interesting to see how the MSM report it.
Will it be reports on 'hair-do's' , body language and hand-shake analysis, or will the MSM report on substantive issues.

Leroy42

RIGOLO wrote: »

Lively discussion on CNN Talk with Max Foster this morning.
Podcast should be available later today.

Alot of credit been given to Trump for the Singapore summit, the contributors (well 2 of 3) were effectively stating that if the only thing to come out of this summit is a timeline for further meetings and a successful meet, greet and tweet outcome , then they would consider it a success. A low bar no doubt but given where the starting point was, its progress.
Could be another win for Trump, it will be interesting to see how the MSM report it.
Will it be reports on 'hair-do's' , body language and hand-shake analysis, or will the MSM report on substantive issues.

It is clearly a win for Trump, and by extension the whole world. NK was, and is, a rogue state and a potential source of problems for the entire world.

Dialogue is always better than nothing.

However, it is hard to know what Trump expects to get out of this. He already had a deal with Iran which he deemed worthless, so unless he manages to get a full and complete teardown of the nuclear program along with any military spend, I fail to see how Trump can sell this to his supporters as anything other than a capitulation along the lines of Obama and Iran.

He is already talking about investing massively in NK, but surely that goes directly against his 'No trade deficit' position?

He started off, like all other POTUS, claiming that NK would need to disarm before any talks. Now he has given in on that, is clearly happy to let Kim remain as leader and wants to give Kim the worldwide PR that he craves.

Again, I find it very hard to understand how posters like RIGOLO can have such diametrically opposed positions and yet still retain any semblance of a position. Why is Iran bad but NK good? Why are trade deficits bad but money to Israel and likely money to NK good?

I hope ti goes great. I hope both men get the ego strokes they want. I hope both get the noble prize if that is what keeps them talking. Because I don't really care about them, I care about us. If that is whats needed to stop the talk of destruction of nations, of possible nuclear war, then great. Let them have they're mutual appreciation society.

But I withhold any judgement on the actual outcomes until time has passed and we see has Trump done anything to make NK a better place, and by extension the US.

everlast75

Those that said Trump deserved a nobel for the first try really should be more circumspect

Leroy42

RIGOLO wrote: »

Will it be reports on 'hair-do's' , body language and hand-shake analysis, or will the MSM report on substantive issues.

I agree that the media (not sure again why you continue to use the moniker MSM as it clearly relates to all including Fox) are failing in their coverage of Trump. Even the 'press conference' at the G7 was a failing. The media failed to tackle him on anything substantive. Why tariffs, why those countries, why not other countries, why NK but not Iran? What exactly was the tax cuts going to achieve and how will the deficit be controlled.

But as Trump has literally nothing of substance to say "my relationship is a ten" (I mean, wtf? 10 out of what?) then they are left with little else to talk about.

What is the point talking about anything Trump says when it is clear than most things is says are lies, SHS lies, his aides lie.

Hurrache

RIGOLO wrote: »

Lively discussion on CNN Talk with Max Foster this morning. ........it will be interesting to see how the MSM report it.

Eh, you just posted how they're reporting it.

StringerBell

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

All I got from the g7 was trump doing a trump and running away when the adults in the room start talking.

I can't wait for the next president apologising about trump to the world. That is going to happen. Trump's legacy will be one of embarrassment to the United States. I really have never seen such a repulsive individual take office over there

Yes and you see that's why I feel the GOP are in no hurry to do anything while he is still useful to them.

They will likely be out of power by the time the **** hits the fan, taxes need to be raised to service the debt they are putting on the country right now, they will get to break out the old hits then like fiscally conservative, speak about how it's embarrassing their president is on a world apology tour and oppose everything on the basis of being too damn patriotic to allow themselves to become morally bankrupt going along with awful Democrat policies.

The party of No will be back in full swing and they know how to bundle that into votes come the next election cycle. They are better at this game, may not be nice but it is what it is. Unless there is a change on the Democrat side there isn't going to be any change.

It will then just rinse and repeat.

Paul Ryan breaking out of retirement for the good of the nation to unite the party and lead them back to their fiscal conservative, morally responsible roots, then he gets in and the merry go round begins again

dr.fuzzenstein

Leroy42 wrote: »

It is clearly a win for Trump, and by extension the whole world. NK was, and is, a rogue state and a potential source of problems for the entire world.

Dialogue is always better than nothing.

However, it is hard to know what Trump expects to get out of this. He already had a deal with Iran which he deemed worthless, so unless he manages to get a full and complete teardown of the nuclear program along with any military spend, I fail to see how Trump can sell this to his supporters as anything other than a capitulation along the lines of Obama and Iran.

He is already talking about investing massively in NK, but surely that goes directly against his 'No trade deficit' position?

He started off, like all other POTUS, claiming that NK would need to disarm before any talks. Now he has given in on that, is clearly happy to let Kim remain as leader and wants to give Kim the worldwide PR that he craves.

Again, I find it very hard to understand how posters like RIGOLO can have such diametrically opposed positions and yet still retain any semblance of a position. Why is Iran bad but NK good? Why are trade deficits bad but money to Israel and likely money to NK good?

I hope ti goes great. I hope both men get the ego strokes they want. I hope both get the noble prize if that is what keeps them talking. Because I don't really care about them, I care about us. If that is whats needed to stop the talk of destruction of nations, of possible nuclear war, then great. Let them have they're mutual appreciation society.

But I withhold any judgement on the actual outcomes until time has passed and we see has Trump done anything to make NK a better place, and by extension the US.

Well,the downfall for anyhing Trump touches is his unreliableness, flakiness and tendency to do complete 180 turns on anything.
His method is to bully, bluster and lie in order to get people to agree with him.
Once he's got their signatures on paper, he thinks he can just jettison whatever deal they've made but still demand they hold up their end of the bargain.
Even if he doesn't do that, he might just diss them later on twatter.
He thinks he's being cunning and slippery, but everyone else just sees him as an unreliable partner and a total liability in any deal.
He does have a deserved reputation to stiff his suppliers and business partners:

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/06/09/donald-trump-unpaid-bills-republican-president-laswuits/85297274/

RIGOLO

The Singapore summit is already off to a good start.

Trump has accepted an invitation from the Singapore Prime Minister to make an official state visit to Singapore in November.
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asia/president-trump-accepts-invitation-state-visit-to-singapore-10419660
The Singaporeans (?) are certainly throwing out the red carpet and Im sure are delighted to have POTUS make 2 visits in such short a space of time. Albeit coninciding with the ASEAN-US summit . Some might call it isolationism (?) but I see it as a an important symbolic as well as real act on DTs part to stay involved in South East Asia regional, political and economic developments.