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S2S Cycleway - northside

mrcheez

According to http://www.clontarf.ie/news/s2s-cycleway-information-meeting works must begin before the summer as otherwise it'll be shelved for another year.

So by my reckoning we should start to see some builders in the area in the next month or so.

Anyone got an update on whether this is starting this year?

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site_owner

reminder to speed back up

Fighting Tao

Nah, it's to highlight that they fked up the design and so there may be pedestrians on the cycle track.

monument

Every time I read this thread of hear people or reports talk about this section of the S2S, I think: I hate to say I told you so!

I wrote in 2013: "The proposed design ... needlessly increases the chances for conflict between those people and anybody on a bicycle."

I'm not smug about this at all, I'm sad and frustrated that they keep trying to mix cycling and pedestrians.

mr spuckler wrote: »

I noticed that one again this morning, on the right hand side of that picture there are rumble strips after you've passed by the tram shelter, as well as before it

It looks like it is to try to stop people from just bypassing the strips in one direction!

mr spuckler

monument wrote: »

Every time I read this thread of hear people or reports talk about this section of the S2S, I think: I hate to say I told you so!

I wrote in 2013: "The proposed design ... needlessly increases the chances for conflict between those people and anybody on a bicycle."

I'm not smug about this at all, I'm sad and frustrated that they keep trying to mix cycling and pedestrians.

I never saw it at the design stage but when I first saw it in the flesh I was hugely disappointed at the number of crossings, as well as the number of pinch points on the new stretch.

monument wrote: »

It looks like it is to try to stop people from just bypassing the strips in one direction!

ah, great point!

Tenzor07

monument wrote: »

Every time I read this thread of hear people or reports talk about this section of the S2S, I think: I hate to say I told you so!

It's a bad design of course..

Still better than having to wait 10 mins to cross the road and cycle along by St. Anne's to make the dangerous crossing back onto the cycle track as was done previously before the new section was built...

mr spuckler

Tenzor07 wrote: »

It's a bad design of course..

Still better than having to wait 10 mins to cross the road and cycle along by St. Anne's to make the dangerous crossing back onto the cycle track as was done previously before the new section was built...

and don't forget how rough the road was previously too.

I don't think anyone would argue that what is there now isn't better than what was there before

Tenzor07

mr spuckler wrote: »

and don't forget how rough the road was previously too.
I don't think anyone would argue that what is there now isn't better than what was there before

Now if they could just address the hideous mess that is Eastpoint! V dangerous trying to enter and exit the cycle path, could they not put rumble strips, ramps and re-paint the road markings down that end...A lot of high-speed motor traffic in that area....

magicbastarder

i don't use the cycle lane at eastpoint. i'm coming from/heading to fairview direction anyway, so would not be approaching it on the cycle path to begin with.

mr spuckler

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Now if they could just address the hideous mess that is Eastpoint! V dangerous trying to enter and exit the cycle path, could they not put rumble strips, ramps and re-paint the road markings down that end...A lot of high-speed motor traffic in that area....

heading outbound from town via East Wall rd as you start up the hill towards the Eastpoint junction and the kerb is dished on your left hand side beside the bottle banks. so you mount the path there, but the cycle lane doesn't start for another 10 or 15 yards where the lines suddenly appear in the middle of a path! then as you approach the junction the lines disappear again! so now the cycle lane continues on the far side of the road and you need to cross. are there lights for cyclists? of course not!
just incredible infrastructure design :mad:

Fighting Tao

mr spuckler wrote: »

heading outbound from town via East Wall rd as you start up the hill towards the Eastpoint junction and the kerb is dished on your left hand side beside the bottle banks. so you mount the path there, but the cycle lane doesn't start for another 10 or 15 yards where the lines suddenly appear in the middle of a path! then as you approach the junction the lines disappear again! so now the cycle lane continues on the far side of the road and you need to cross. are there lights for cyclists? of course not!
just incredible infrastructure design :mad:

If heading towards Clontarf, I use the road for that section and then head into the hatches area before the lane for turning into eastpoint. Then I move across to the two way cycle track.

If heading to Fairview I stay on the road the whole way.

mr spuckler

Fighting Tao wrote: »

If heading towards Clontarf, I use the road for that section and then head into the hatches area before the lane for turning into eastpoint. Then I move across to the two way cycle track.

If heading to Fairview I stay on the road the whole way.

yes I do now aswell, the above is just to highlight the almost impossibly bad design.
although yesterday evening I misjudged my approach and almost came a cropper while mounting the path at the junction between the traffic light poles!

Tenzor07

mr spuckler wrote: »

yes I do now aswell, the above is just to highlight the almost impossibly bad design.
although yesterday evening I misjudged my approach and almost came a cropper while mounting the path at the junction between the traffic light poles!

What I do is get the right turn before the motor traffic starts up and get to the right turning lane for Eastpoint, though unless you're willing to sprint up that hill then you're left with the path beside the recycle bins and a 5 mins wait at the pedestrian crossing..

Ferris

I go through the Eastpoint junction and cross the road to the cycle path where the kerb is dished. Obviously have to watch for oncoming traffic and cyclists already on the cycleway but its the best approach for me and I rarely have to stop. Removes potential pedestrian contact at the traffic crossing.

Rogue-Trooper

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Now if they could just address the hideous mess that is Eastpoint! V dangerous trying to enter and exit the cycle path, could they not put rumble strips, ramps and re-paint the road markings down that end...A lot of high-speed motor traffic in that area....

I use that route daily and it is indeed a mess. When coming from Clontarf on the cycle path, I join the road before the lights where the kerb is dished/ramped. You just need to signal and keep an eye on what's tearing up Alfie Bryne Road from behind you on your right. In the morning the traffic is usually backed up there anyway.

Re-joining coming from East Wall Road is confusing at best and there doesn't seem to be a 'right' way. I keep right coming around the bend from East Wall Road onto Alfie Byrne and stay on the centre-line, moving into the right turn lane to East Point. At the lights, I go straight to the traffic island in the middle of the road and turn right, joining the cycle path where the pedestrian crossing is. A bit of care is required for both on-coming vehicles and peds crossing but it seems to be the best way IMO (it seems to be a 'shared crossing' anyway for bikes and peds). Life is too short to take the weird half-cycle lane where the bottle bank is and wait at the pedestrian lights for an age to cross.

Tenzor07

Rogue-Trooper wrote: »

I use that route daily and it is indeed a mess. When coming from Clontarf on the cycle path, I join the road before the lights where the kerb is dished/ramped. You just need to signal and keep an eye on what's tearing up Alfie Bryne Road from behind you on your right. In the morning the traffic is usually backed up there anyway. .

It's a disaster area, especially since the Aldi was added with cars coming in and out of it.
Traveling out of the city the traffic lights at the Supermarket cause cars to back up and it's impossible to squeeze through, then you have to position yourself in the middle of the road with cars skimming past your left elbow as you try and make a turn up onto the AB road, then tackle the crossing to get onto the cycle track....

buffalo

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Traveling out of the city the traffic lights at the Supermarket cause cars to back up and it's impossible to squeeze through

"And they do be going two abreast too Joe! Taking up the whole road!"

mr spuckler

the cycle path on the left by the bottle banks is a perfect example of token infrastructure for cyclists. literally unusable if you want to strictly adhere to the law, given that the lane doesn't start or end at a dished kerb. and then highly impractical if you're trying to maintain momentum and in many ways unsafe also.

Tenzor07

mr spuckler wrote: »

the cycle path on the left by the bottle banks is a perfect example of token infrastructure for cyclists. literally unusable if you want to strictly adhere to the law, given that the lane doesn't start or end at a dished kerb. and then highly impractical if you're trying to maintain momentum and in many ways unsafe also.

I've noticed that cars park there to use the bottle bank so can block up that path, and it's got a lot of gravel and glass etc. so I never use that path...

mr spuckler

Tenzor07 wrote: »

I've noticed that cars park there to use the bottle bank so can block up that path, and it's got a lot of gravel and glass etc. so I never use that path...

I used to do for quite a while but got fed up of...cars parked at the bottle bank, people walking in the cycle lane, cyclists coming against me on my side of the lane, cyclists & peds joining half way up without looking, the lane ending in a gravel & traffic light pole wasteland, aggression from motorists when carefully rejoining traffic at or past the junction etc etc!!

edit...also for some reason that slight climb to the traffic lights always completely blows me out! it takes me a short stretch on the cycle lane before I recover to settle in for the long uninterrupted cycle that follows.

Tenzor07

mr spuckler wrote: »

I used to do for quite a while but got fed up of...cars parked at the bottle bank, people walking in the cycle lane, cyclists coming against me on my side of the lane, cyclists & peds joining half way up without looking, the lane ending in a gravel & traffic light pole wasteland, aggression from motorists when carefully rejoining traffic at or past the junction etc etc!!.

It's a disaster area for sure, why they can completely re-design that area, the fact there's no continuation of the cycle lane past the Eastpoint estate entrance and your forced into a dangerous left turn with motor traffic is just crazy!

Rogue-Trooper

Rolling Stones are on in Croke Park this evening so I presume we can say goodbye to the cycle path on Alfie Byrne Road for the ride home.......:mad:

img_6303.jpg?fit=1136%2C448

site_owner

http://irishcycle.com/2017/07/22/mysterious-ways-means-i-still-havent-found-what-im-looking-for-on-dublin-bay-cycle-path-closure/comment-page-1/

yep, this is SOP for large gigs. total BS and the council always allow it.
still unclear what powers they have to close cycle lanes but gardai apparently cant enforce the parking laws when the council inform them that the lanes are closed.

Rogue-Trooper

Rogue-Trooper wrote: »

Rolling Stones are on in Croke Park this evening so I presume we can say goodbye to the cycle path on Alfie Byrne Road for the ride home.......:mad:

site_owner wrote: »

yep, this is SOP for large gigs. total BS and the council always allow it.

So, as expected, it was a veritable busfest on Alfie Byrne yesterday. I hit it early enough so while there was a line of buses each side from the East Wall Road end, there were only a few buses at that time on the cycle path past East Point.

It's maddening enough that they use/abuse the cycle path for this, but it's extra frustrating that they have no structure in place up there. No prior warning, no signage, no stewarding, no Garda presence. It just appears to be a free-for-all. When approaching on a bike, you are in the middle of a busy junction trying to figure out where you can/are supposed to go. There's nothing to warn the drivers that the cycle path is out of action and to expect cyclists on the road. A few Gardai wouldn't go amiss either to keep manners on drivers beeping and close-passing the bikes that are now on the road. While I'm a confident cyclist on the road, a high percentage of folks that use that route would not be so confident and I saw a few bewildered looking people trying not to have heart attacks while they ran the gauntlet of parked buses up that little hill from East Wall road.

As if all that wasn't bad enough, the council had thoughtfully placed a load of bins in the middle of the cycle path once you had cleared the buses, although I did notice that someone had moved them onto the grass verge this morning.

/rant.

buffalo

If only there was somewhere to park busses in the city...

https://www.dublininquirer.com/2018/05/01/use-of-new-e1-7-million-coach-park-negligible-says-council-official/

I don't see why DCC can't expand the hours of the above and charge as appropriate.

magicbastarder

i passed up alfie byrne road just before 5. two buses parked in the cycle lane. it doesn't really bother me, i don't use that stretch of cycle lane.
but there are general road closures in other areas when there are gigs on, so to suggest cyclists can't be inconvenienced a couple of times a year seems a little too far for me. as long as it's organised and policed.
one concern i would have would be whether this could damage a cycle path not specced to take buses.

Rogue-Trooper

buffalo wrote: »

If only there was somewhere to park busses in the city...

https://www.dublininquirer.com/2018/05/01/use-of-new-e1-7-million-coach-park-negligible-says-council-official/

I don't see why DCC can't expand the hours of the above and charge as appropriate.

This. Make the venue/promoter pay. There is also parking on East Wall Road they could use.

magicbastarder wrote: »

. as long as it's organised and policed.

That's my gripe, it wasn't organised or policed in any way that I could see.

Leroy42

Nobody is claiming that it shouldn't be done, if that is what is agreed and there are plans in place. It appears that this is simply a place to dump the buses rather than have to plan properly. Bear in mind that each of these buses are private companies that are being given waivers, for some unexplained reason, to park illegally.

When asked why this was allowed neither the Garda or DCC can seemingly provide an answer.

What is the criteria for cancelling a cycle lane? IS it simply in times of being busy? On match days can anyone simply park where they like?

The issue is not the inconvenience it is the feeling that these decision are being made without taking the effects on cyclists into account.

As was mentioned, there are bus parks available. Why don't the GAA provide somewhere for all these buses to park, it is there venue after all?

HugoMyBoss

Is it only busses that can park that way on Alfie Byrne road when a concert is on?

site_owner

HugoMyBoss wrote: »

Is it only busses that can park that way on Alfie Byrne road when a concert is on?

yeah, i think theyre given a print off for their window by the stewards.

Leroy42

site_owner wrote: »

yeah, i think theyre given a print off for their window by the stewards.

And the question is by whom and under what laws? Who decided that giving private vehicle owners, bringing people to a private event, should be allowed to override parking rules.

And if it is true, then why not do it for other events? I regularly to go GAA matches where I have to pay for parking. Why should I have to?