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Apple pulls out of data center in Athenry due to fcuked up planning and gob****es

Kermit.de.frog

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2018/0510/961460-apple-athenry/

There you have it folks.

The result of a couple of locals and a fcuking eejit in Co Wicklow.

Not surprised. Total pisstake.

I'm sorry for the people of Athenry. You could of done with it. Good things don't come your way due to lunatics and a ****ed up planning process.

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Jim Bob Scratcher

Will I still be able to buy apples in Athenry though ? that is the vital question here?

wexie

kneemos wrote: »

These data centres consume massive amounts of power apparently,with little or nothing in return.

I'm not really sure what you'd be looking to get in return?

Yes they do require massive amounts of power (although a lot less in Ireland because of our climate, cooling is much less of an issue here).

And they provide a service in return for that power?

Hurrache

billbond4 wrote: »

Thats great news, we dont have the excess electricity that data center sheds will use, the likes of Norway & Denmark do.
If that data centre was going to be run "with up to 150 permanent staff required to run it” it should never be built, data centres should be only run on a handful of staff.

I just said they use renewable energy. Do you think there's giant batteries at Poolbeg that will be drained further when the data centres get plugged in?

I've no idea what the rest of your post means.

Boom_Bap

Jim Bob Scratcher wrote: »

Will I still be able to buy apples in Athenry though ? that is the vital question here?

Someone should plant a load of apple trees in the fields of Athenry.

Jim Bob Scratcher

Boom_Bap wrote: »

Someone should plant a load of apple trees in the fields of Athenry.

Brilliant :pac:

cnocbui

Hurrache wrote: »

Many of them are carbon neutral these days and run off renewable energy.

If this centre had been developed to it's full capacity, it would have consumed as much power as the whole of Dublin. It would have meant expanding The country's electricity generation capacity massively, and because of the deficiencies with renewables, that would have meant massive expansion of conventional power generation capacity for when it's dark and the wind isn't blowing, as well as renewables. This centre might have pushed Ireland's CO2 emissions up so much that we would have incurred huge EU fines for missing CO2 targets. We might have just dodged a bullet.

Corkblowin

The land was owned by the IDA - so it was intended to be used for a low-intensity development such as a data centre. Business parks etc should be used higher traffic activities - be it vehicles or people.

The biggest issue with this will be foreign investment going elsewhere where they can have more certainty of timeframes. Scotland making a huge push for FDI at the moment.

Fiery mutant

billbond4 wrote: »

Thats great news, we dont have the excess electricity that data center sheds will use, the likes of Norway & Denmark do.
If that data centre was going to be run "with up to 150 permanent staff required to run it” it should never be built, data centres should be only run on a handful of staff.
And the 500 million to build was at least 90% apple servers, brought in without any return to the Irish Taxpayer.

The data Centre runs 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. The place I work in is open for 9 hours with 40 staff. If that was open 24 hours, that would need 3 shifts of 40 staff. That data Centre was massive.

Do the math.

Boom_Bap

Jim Bob Scratcher wrote: »

Brilliant :pac:

Then someone can write the remix of the song and give it a bit more modern pizazz.

meep

Estrella Salty Leak wrote: »

I'd be in favour of the data centre but that 150 number sounds way off.

On site there would only be maintenance staff, security, etc. Day to day these things shouldn't require must effort. Open to correction but any data centre I've ever been in was pretty sparsely populated.

The management of the data centre would most likely be done centrally from wherever they manage their other centres.

Job announcements like these are easy to make. Nobody every follows up and it's not a firm commitment.

But let's say it's just 30 full time jobs locally. That in itself is a good thing.

In a previous thread, I did an analysis of potential employee numbers based on the submitted plans. (https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=104944196)

Here it is again for fun;

To get some kind of handle on potential employment, I had a look at the planning submission and plans;

http://gccapps.galwaycoco.ie/viewexternaldocuments/ViewPDF?ref=1971694

This is certainly more than 'a few engineers to keep it ticking over' kind of facility, but not something that could be termed 'a major employer'

The main logistics and admin building contains 21 dedicated offices, 3 open plan office spaces, a facility operations centre and 9 conference rooms. There are several other workspaces related to logistics etc. There's no dedicated canteen or kitchen area, just a break room.

The main car park has ~140 spaces provided.

Each data centre has several offices and work areas with 20 dedicated car parking spaces.

It's probably reasonable to assume that the facility could support maybe 50 workers. Assuming a skeleton security and technical staff on 2x out of hours shifts, the total might be around 70.

Am open to correction, of course, as I'm not an expert at reverse calculating staff ratios based on office space provisions. However, there's a lot more office and workspace provided here than some of the employment naysayers could be comfortable with.

Hector Savage

Hurrache wrote: »

Many of them are carbon neutral these days and run off renewable energy.

Can't imagine they'd be close to carbon neutral ?

They consume MASSIVE amounts of power the air conditioning alone is a killer ...

Blazer

billbond4 wrote: »

Thats great news, we dont have the excess electricity that data center sheds will use, the likes of Norway & Denmark do.
If that data centre was going to be run "with up to 150 permanent staff required to run it” it should never be built, data centres should be only run on a handful of staff.
And the 500 million to build was at least 90% apple servers, brought in without any return to the Irish Taxpayer.

Christ where to start.
Apple’s DC’s are all very energy efficient. Ireland is sought after as the crap weather year around leads to less cost spent on cooling. Between Server engineers, storage engineers, maintenance etc you could probably hit 50 jobs or so.
Regardless the whole planning permission is a joke on this country. Any person related to a business entity shouldn’t be allowed to protest against a competitor. The only concerns should be the environment and local people who’s house prices might be negatively impacted.
Dunes/Tesco’s are notorious for blocking Aldi/Lidl submissions and this all needs to be kicked to touch.

cantdecide

Apparently, the plant was situated adjacent to the natural habitat of the Athenry small free birds.

On a serious note, I have no idea of who to the most skeptical of - the gubbermint, the huge corporation or the nimbies and I think in these topics, the vested interests see to it that we never identify the real winners and losers are in the long run.

/goes off grid. dons tinfoil hat

whiskeyman

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Can you tell us about your intellectual disability?

Really?

Just because my opinion differs, I really don't think you need to stoop to that level.

Post reported.

cnocbui

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The locals welcomed it with open arms. They had protests FOR it.

So what? The choice of location handed grounds for objection, to those so minded, on a plate. There are several other data centres already in this country. Did they face such opposition? Perhaps the companies that built them were more sensible about locating them?

I think it mad that this could be messed with as it has been, but with such a stupid planning system, it wasn't wise to choose that location.

Blazer

whiskeyman wrote: »

Really?

Just because my opinion differs, I really don't think you need to stoop to that level.

Post reported.

There’s opinions and then there's stupidity. Wanna guess which one is you?

meep

Hector Savage wrote: »

Can't imagine they'd be close to carbon neutral ?

They consume MASSIVE amounts of power the air conditioning alone is a killer ...

One of the more interetsing points I learned from this while reading up on it some time back was that in Denmark, one of the planning provisions was that the excess heat from the centre was to be recycled for domestic heating. As I recall, there's a housing estate close by that gets it's heating generated from the data centre.

In Ireland, planning officials didn't take such an enlightened bview and were happy for all that excess heat to be vented to atmosphere. (ie wasted).

Kermit.de.frog

whiskeyman wrote: »

Really?

Just because my opinion differs, I really don't think you need to stoop to that level.

Post reported.

You said the planning process worked. You think the planning process works in this country?

You think this is a beacon of a planning process working?

You are either stupid or vested in a stupid planning process.

Franz Von Peppercorn

whiskeyman wrote: »

Short term jobs, perhaps.
Long term? Jury is out.
Good article here:
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/data-centre-growth-comes-at-price-for-irish-infrastructure-1.2759291

Overall, it shows the reliance we have on FDI.
If anything, I'm glad the planning process worked. Just because Apple want, doesn't mean Apple should get. Maybe pay your fair share of taxes...

I guess I'll be a minority voice in this.

(popcorn! delicious popcorn for all!)

The planning process at all stages green lighted the build. Or didn’t overturn the previous green lights.

The fact this therefore the planning process failed. Something that was agreed to be built (with some amendments) is now not getting built because of the length of time it took to make and confirm the decision to allow the build.

Hurrache

Hector Savage wrote: »

Can't imagine they'd be close to carbon neutral ?

They consume MASSIVE amounts of power the air conditioning alone is a killer ...

The technology is there, there's articles out there for example as to how Facebook's data centres, such as the one at Clonee, achieve it. Can't remember the details now but probably between low energy, green energy, carbon offsets and we're not particularly warm with plenty of cool winds.

Kermit.de.frog

cnocbui wrote: »

So what?

Do live in Athenry?

wexie

Hector Savage wrote: »

They consume MASSIVE amounts of power the air conditioning alone is a killer ...

actually most data centers being built in Ireland these days don't use ANY air conditioning. They use passive cooling, take in air from outside, filter it and use it to cool inside. On the rare days it gets too hot to do that they vaporize water into the air to chill it, on the rare days it's too cold they use hot air from the equipment and mix that in.

There's a reason there are so many data centers in Ireland and it's our climate...

There's a ratio (I forget the name now) that is basically the calculation of how much power a data center uses in total and how much of that is used to run the machines (as opposed to cooling, elevators, coffee machines etc. etc.)

Every business running a data center will try to get that ratio as close to 1 as possible.

Have a read of this : https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2010/04/hippie-engineering-meets-information-technology/

EDIT : I should probably have said 'large scale data centers' I'm sure there's plenty small ones that do use air conditioning

CrankyHaus

Very sad that development wanted and needed by locals can be blocked by what appears to be a shake-down crew.

To see the planning and legal process be exploited by people with little or no connection to the area who add nothing to the locality in return shows the need for reform.

Hopefully much needed lessons are learned from this disgrace, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

Doctors room ghost

Jim Bob Scratcher wrote: »

Will I still be able to buy apples in Athenry though ? that is the vital question here?

Not cheap anyway since they won’t let aldi or Lidl in either

cnocbui

OSI wrote: »

Not to mention Apple is committed to making all of it's facilities run on 100% renewable energy so they would have followed up the development with investment in renewable energy resources in Ireland.

What a load... Apple already claim they are 100% powered by renewables and Lisa Jackson their resident greenie even claimed they do that without buying offsets, which apparently was untrue.

Nothing can be 100% powered by renewables without massive battery parks that make the system cost totally uneconomic.

Kermit.de.frog

cnocbui wrote: »

What a load... Apple already claim they are 100% powered by renewables and Lisa Jackson their resident greenie even claimed they do that without buying offsets, which apparently was untrue.

Nothing can be 100% powered by renewables without massive battery parks that make the system cost totally uneconomic.

But do you live in Athenry?

Maybe people like you should leave it to the local people to decide what they think is best for their town.

Disgusting they have been deprived of this investment due to morons.

cnocbui

meep wrote: »

One of the more interetsing points I learned from this while reading up on it some time back was that in Denmark, one of the planning provisions was that the excess heat from the centre was to be recycled for domestic heating. As I recall, there's a housing estate close by that gets it's heating generated from the data centre.

In Ireland, planning officials didn't take such an enlightened bview and were happy for all that excess heat to be vented to atmosphere. (ie wasted).

Duh! There is nothing local to the intended site that could use the heat.

cnocbui

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

But do you live in Athenry?

Maybe people like you should leave it to the local people to decide what they think is best for their town.

Disgusting they have been deprived of this investment due to morons.

No I don't and I agree with you, but Apple ignored the realpolitik at their cost. Had they chosen somewhere more appropriate it would likely be built by now.

YFlyer

Estrella Salty Leak wrote: »

https://fora.ie/apple-data-centre-galway-2-3061011-Nov2016/

Worth a read for the background on the people who objected and why.

Piggyback off Apple be his best interest. Think Banta with Dell.

Wheeliebin30

Ah sure apple are a big bad enemy of if Ireland according to the left.

They bring nothing but more misery.

Maybe we could nationalise them?