wally79 wrote: » So what’s to stop someone doing this repeatedly until caught and then playing the innocent when they are You can’t run a system like that and all your keyboard warrior personal insults against someone you don’t even know don’t change that
Charles Babbage wrote: » Such a person would have no evidence of tagging off, whereas the OP would have tag offs at Sallins.
wally79 wrote: » How do you differentiate the honest mistake from the person doing this deliberately to scam a few quid and pulling out the same story when caught?
Camden Angry Nitwit wrote: » As per my previous post, it's pretty simple. 1) Use of common sense 2) Use of discretion If there is no cop-on on a human level and no room for the use of discretion, all of these guys should be fired tomorrow and replaced with a technological solution.
RossieMan wrote: » What do you not understand? It's not in the leap zone. Sallins was recently added. Newbridge is not. You're in the wrong I'm afraid.
Billgirlylegs wrote: » Having the card applicable to part of the journey the train takes is preposterous.
TheChizler wrote: » Even a notice on the reader you tap on at saying the last zone applicable for travel credit usage would go a long way towards preventing this kind of mistake. I'm always very wary using public transport in Dublin, a few years ago the only reason I knew to tap on on the Luas platform rather than on board (like on a bus) was from reading forums on boards. It's not intuitive for someone arriving at a platform. On a bus I asked the driver did it stop at such and such a road and he sarcastically said 'you'll find out'. Haven't used it on a train yet but my one experience of using a DART (where I had to use a compass app on my phone to figure out which platform I needed to board from) hasn't left me very confident of Irish Rail's ability to post clear signage.
wally79 wrote: » That’s fine but what if a genuine person isn’t very believable for some reason or some chancer is great at acting innocent or the inspector is having a bad day Why introduce ambiguity There is an appeals process where you can present your case
Billgirlylegs wrote: » Utter and complete bull. "If I could find it on Google, so could you". "What do you not understand" The system that "they" designed and implemented involves paying money to register on a little plastic card. To get on public transport "their" system requires you to tap a reader. At journeys end you tap another reader and the cost of the journey is deducted from your credit. It isn't complicated. "They" have not put a reader in Newbridge for some unstated reason. Put a man in a booth at Newbridge and other similarly equipped stations. If use of the card doesn't apply to a particular train / service, say so clearly in big letters all over each station. Having the card applicable to part of the journey the train takes is preposterous. A fine of € 100 plus in the circumstances is preposterous. Taking the card is preposterous. What about the money the customer has lodged and can't use.? I had to think for a while to find a suitable word. I think it's all so preposterous that I used it 3 4 times.
Msrebeckyxo wrote: » 2 ladies got on the luas yesterday at Connolly station, and looked to tap on the luas and the driver told them to tap on the validator. The lady then asked if she could tap two adults on with one card and he said yes. You ant do this, you need an individual card. Nothing to do with what we’re tlaking about but dear Christ if people who work for NTA can’t even give correct info, then what hope do people have? Like tourists? Aw sure, waiting to hear back about the appeal but I doubt anything will come from it! Appreciate everyone’s input anyways and hopefully I’ve made some people aware of this anyways!
Camden Angry Nitwit wrote: » This why we need competition. If there was a choice, any business run the way you describe it (or defend it) wouldn't survive.
ohnonotgmail wrote: » the reason is quite obvious. If newbridge is not in the LEAP zone why put a leap validator there?
XPS_Zero wrote: » Their ticket checkers all have the ability to sell a ticket. It seems to work fine for them. Liket he LUAS honor system they remarkably get a lot of people volunteering on the train. Like he'll be going down "anyone need a ticket" (as in he's not CHECKING tickets and if you keep your head down he'll probably walk on - though now and then he'll come right back and do a check) and 4-5 hands will shoot up, pull their bank cards out and he sells them one there and then.
devnull wrote: » XPS_Zero wrote: » Their ticket checkers all have the ability to sell a ticket. It seems to work fine for them. Liket he LUAS honor system they remarkably get a lot of people volunteering on the train. Like he'll be going down "anyone need a ticket" (as in he's not CHECKING tickets and if you keep your head down he'll probably walk on - though now and then he'll come right back and do a check) and 4-5 hands will shoot up, pull their bank cards out and he sells them one there and then. So what you are essentially saying, is he is promoting fare evasion? Why would anyone bother buying a ticket if they knew if they didn't get checked they would travel for free and the worst that would happen if they were checked they could just buy one? There's no risk of trying to evade a fare whatsoever then. The only time people should be able to buy a ticket on-board is if they are travelling from stations which are not staffed and do not have any ticket issuing facilities, otherwise there should not be any option.
EdgeCase wrote: » Even if a case went to court, your motive would be taken into account. If you didn't intend to defraud the operator and had a simple ticketing mixup, the judge isn't going to be to impressed to see someone pressing charges.
EdgeCase wrote: » If a passenger turns up with the wrong ticket, you should be trying to rectify that and sell them a supplement or a correct ticket to cover their journey.
The difference between someone who's clearly got no ticket and isn't paying vs someone who is willing to pay is huge.
If you didn't intend to defraud the operator and had a simple ticketing mixup, the judge isn't going to be to impressed to see someone pressing charges.
EdgeCase wrote: » What would be reasonable would be to allow a confused passenger to pay the correct fare and explain the situation properly. All they need to say is "This is Blahblah station. This is the final stop on the Leap Card system. Passengers traveling beyond this point need an appropriate ticket. If you do not have a ticket, please exit the train here. Leap card is not valid beyond this station. " They make such clear announcements on the edge of the Oyster Card system for example.
HonalD wrote: » That’s a very misguided advice note for the OP. If you took this to court, you would likely lose. If you do not pay a legally correct fine (as in this case), there are very limited circumstances where you would successfully convince a judge that you are in the right. But it’s your opinion to make and I’d be interested to see what evidence you can produce to back up your assertion.
HonalD wrote: » Given we’ve strayed way off not having a valid ticket for a journey into a debate about an national leap card zoning system. To all the posters suggesting having valid store everywhere, How would that work? For example, you’re getting a train from heuston to Sallins which is a service to cork. You will need €60 at least deducted from your leap card as you may extend your journey to cork as per a similar situation to the OP. So if you take the same train every day you need to ensure you’ve too much money on your card just to cover those who may decide to extend their journey? Hands up anyone who wants to do that, just in case they might go one or more stations once and feel a fine is too extreme?
XPS_Zero wrote: » That's what I thought at first. I noticed I could just walk into a station, there are no validators (i'm NOT saying we do that, if anything they need to be expanded, stations on the DART line like Glastule and Shankill are permanently open for at least 2 years now which is utterly ridiculous. I'm saying we should have a system where you can tag on and off anywhere. The NIR system they do check the tickets but the same guy lets you buy on board, I've seen at least 20 checks now over the last few years I've only seen one person caught and they were staying on too long rather than having no ticket. If they had validators WITH the region wide smartcard (and we adopted the all area smart card to add to our validators) you are covered on both fronts. Getting into the system without paying or having a valid pass/smartcard is much harder AND you still have your inspectors AND no stupid regional crap to police and confuse people. Keep in mind Luas has no barriers and does it the way NIR does it - and they still manage to protect their revenue because they have a very aggressive revenue protection team. They should be targeting people who are intending to defraud the system and not pay their way, not people who make honest mistakes, the entire system should be designed to combat those people, we all know the sort. The trakkie brigade who just jump the barriers casually.
EdgeCase wrote: » Considering that there is nowadays hardly anyone who doesn't have a Visa / Mastercard debit card, it could easily be done on a cards-only basis. There's no need to do all this cash handling stuff.
devnull wrote: » The system in the UK is that if you do not have a ticket because there is no ticket machine facilities of staff facilities then you are required to seek out the inspector and present yourself to them and offer to buy a ticket as this shows an intent to pay for a ticket.
