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Meath GAA discussion thread

Hammer Archer

Well Galway has a thread, Mayo has one, even Cavan has one so why not us?

Two one point defeats in a row means we're back into relegation trouble especially if we lose to Derry next week. Having said that, beat Derry next week and promotion is still a (remote) possibility. Joe Sheridan leaving for the States certainly isn't going to help.
Thought the performance yesterday was easily the worst of the league. Our away form is killing us still.

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Hammer Archer

Senior Football Championship
Donaghmore Ashbourne 1-16 Blackhall Gaels 0-11

Ratoath 1-18 Moynalvey 1-5

Rathkenny 0-10 St. Pats 0-8

Intermediate Football Championship
Trim 2-16 Walterstown 0-9

Ballinlough 2-9 Bective 1-11

Longwood 2-13 Kilmainham 2-11

Junior Football Championship
Carnaross 2-9 Clann Na nGael 0-7

St. Vincents 0-16 Dunsany 1-10

Ballivor 7-23 Cortown 0-6

Round 2 of the football championships underway. Ratoath back on track and Pat's unable to build on their good first round show.
In the IFC, Trim with a massive win against one of the favourites this season. Longwood are looking surprisingly good after they struggled in 2017.

In the JFC, ridiculous scoreline in the Ballivor game. You'd expect that Ballivor could easily win the JFC if they'll be able to keep they're hurlers on board.

Obrieski

Meath defeated Laois 2-17 to 1-14 in a SF challenge tonight..
MEATH: D Gallagher; C Dempsey, C McGill, S Lavin; M Burke, D Keogan, S McEntee; B Menton, P Kennelly; C O’Brien, C O’Sullivan, L Ferguson; B McMahon, D Lenihan, L Martyn

The above is a tweet from Fergal Lynch, Meath Chronicle.

No rest for the wicked having had championship just last weekend

Hammer Archer

By the looks of it, no players who played on Sunday were involved in the starting lineup anyway. Still a bit much to put the players through. Distinct lack of any Simonstown players on that team. Rumours flying about a mass exodus of their players from the squad.

All the best to ex Dunboyne chairman Seán Cox who's seriously ill in hospital after that shocking attack in Liverpool last night.

Jamemid

Hammer Archer wrote: »

By the looks of it, no players who played on Sunday were involved in the starting lineup anyway. Still a bit much to put the players through. Distinct lack of any Simonstown players on that team. Rumours flying about a mass exodus of their players from the squad.

All the best to ex Dunboyne chairman Seán Cox who's seriously ill in hospital after that shocking attack in Liverpool last night.

Any idea of what happened for the players to leave panel.

Obrieski

Jamemid wrote: »

Any idea of what happened for the players to leave panel.

No idea specifically for these players but a few ideas come to mind.
I did hear first hand how some players trained 4 nights in a row in the week between the 2 rounds of club championship just gone. At least one of these sessions included a yo-yo / bleep test which I do not see as being anyway necessary at this time of year. Highly unfair on these players to have to do this with a club championship game the same week.

A second potential reason is a new rule I only heard about today. Apparently, if a player wishes to go to America later in the summer to play GAA, they can't have been named on a county championship panel unless they can prove they are a student and had applied for a J1 visa. Now, while I have no idea if that had any bearing on the lads decision or not, it might have been a factor.

Unfortunately we must plan without them, and in the case of McKeever and Tobin in particular, and also Brian Conlon, they are massive losses. McKeever has been best forward in club championship over past 2 years and one of our top scorers this league campaign. Tobin has an eye for a goal and has had a big impact coming on as a sub recently and surely would have been pushing for a starting spot. Conlon is the athletic half back we need going forward and has lots of potential so in all 3 cases, it is a big shame to lose them.

But we must move on and hope the lads who are there, and any new heads floating around, get themselves prepared for a huge game versus Longford who gave us a serious game (albeit in O'Byrne Cup) and we are in no position to treat any opposition lightly.

Jamemid

Obrieski wrote: »

No idea specifically for these players but a few ideas come to mind.
I did hear first hand how some players trained 4 nights in a row in the week between the 2 rounds of club championship just gone. At least one of these sessions included a yo-yo / bleep test which I do not see as being anyway necessary at this time of year. Highly unfair on these players to have to do this with a club championship game the same week.

A second potential reason is a new rule I only heard about today. Apparently, if a player wishes to go to America later in the summer to play GAA, they can't have been named on a county championship panel unless they can prove they are a student and had applied for a J1 visa. Now, while I have no idea if that had any bearing on the lads decision or not, it might have been a factor.

Unfortunately we must plan without them, and in the case of McKeever and Tobin in particular, and also Brian Conlon, they are massive losses. McKeever has been best forward in club championship over past 2 years and one of our top scorers this league campaign. Tobin has an eye for a goal and has had a big impact coming on as a sub recently and surely would have been pushing for a starting spot. Conlon is the athletic half back we need going forward and has lots of potential so in all 3 cases, it is a big shame to lose them.

But we must move on and hope the lads who are there, and any new heads floating around, get themselves prepared for a huge game versus Longford who gave us a serious game (albeit in O'Byrne Cup) and we are in no position to treat any opposition lightly.

Was really happy when mcentee was appointed,taught there would be a big improvement.But it just looks like more of the same. Can see it being a short championship campaign.

rpurfield

Obrieski wrote: »

No idea specifically for these players but a few ideas come to mind.
I did hear first hand how some players trained 4 nights in a row in the week between the 2 rounds of club championship just gone. At least one of these sessions included a yo-yo / bleep test which I do not see as being anyway necessary at this time of year. Highly unfair on these players to have to do this with a club championship game the same week.

A second potential reason is a new rule I only heard about today. Apparently, if a player wishes to go to America later in the summer to play GAA, they can't have been named on a county championship panel unless they can prove they are a student and had applied for a J1 visa. Now, while I have no idea if that had any bearing on the lads decision or not, it might have been a factor.

Unfortunately we must plan without them, and in the case of McKeever and Tobin in particular, and also Brian Conlon, they are massive losses. McKeever has been best forward in club championship over past 2 years and one of our top scorers this league campaign. Tobin has an eye for a goal and has had a big impact coming on as a sub recently and surely would have been pushing for a starting spot. Conlon is the athletic half back we need going forward and has lots of potential so in all 3 cases, it is a big shame to lose them.

But we must move on and hope the lads who are there, and any new heads floating around, get themselves prepared for a huge game versus Longford who gave us a serious game (albeit in O'Byrne Cup) and we are in no position to treat any opposition lightly.

The Chronicle article the other week didn't mention McKeever leaving but did mention Conlon and Tobin so I was hopeful he'd still be involved. I've dumped the paper now but Harry Rooney was another and one of the Summerhill lads, who's name escapes me now, also left and possibly a couple of others.

Andy might be the best man available for the job, but I'm of the firm belief we are still paying for the years of neglect at underage and probably won't see an uptick until at least last years under 17's come along. Even then that's no sure thing. I also think the structure of the inter county season doesn't help to keep lads interested. If your county is so far off the pace like all bar about 6 counties, why would you slog through a heavy schedule for little or no reward at the end of it.

Sonny678

Regards Meath players leaving the panel.

I dont think the full picture is being told here. Some have said players dropping of Meath panel in such number's are unprecedented. This is factually wrong , incorrect . Throughout division 4 3 and 2, players are leaving panels for different reasons at a rate we have never witnessed before in football in recent years. From Cork to Derry from Wexford to Galway, the number of players leaving panels is unprecedented and very worrying. Colm Keys in the Irish Indo recently wrote an article on this matter. He had done research on players who played in last years league and championship in the 32 counties, but did not play any part in this years league whatsoever . The numbers are very revealing. What is for certain, this is not just a Meath issue, this is a national wide issue.

Players rarely left panels 20 or so years ago. But with the introduction of the qualifiers in the early 00s, we saw players from div 3 and div 4 teams walking away when there team was beaten in the championship and their county undertook the qualifer route. The GAA didnt care. But it set a dangerous precident. For the first time ever many players would leave a panel ( many of them went to US for the summer ) in the championship, in the summer. In the last 5 or 6 years we have seen players leaving panels for many reasons in strong traditional counties , division 2 teams. For example Jamie Clarke possibly the best forward in the country, definatly the best Armagh footballer of his generation. This year and 2 seasons ago he did not commit to the county team. Counties like Cork Down and Meath are all seen a turnover of their panels that were unimaginable 10 years. Its not just division 2, 3 and 4 teams. Some division 1 teams are also facing the same issue. We are now seen players leaving at a level for different reasons we have never seen before in the game nationwide

Anyway here are the stats, the facts. Make of them what u want. But I do believe to say players leaving the Meath panel and not mention that players are leaving county panels on mass at unprecedented level from Cork to Derry and from Antrim to Wexford is unfair and not telling the full story.

What counties have the lowest number players that have left the panel this year? . Yes the top teams in division 1 have the less player drain.
Below r the number of players who were in played in the league and championship last year for their county but did not resurface in 2018 league for different reasons

1 Tyrone 4 players
2 Monaghan 5 players
3 Dublin 6 players
4 Donegal 6 players
5 Mayo 6 players
Basically 5 of the 6 best teams in the country all sucessful counties, recently have the lowest number of player turnover in the country .

The other division 1 teams numbers are
Kerry 11 players ( Kerry are in transition, and are overhauling their panel. This would be a normal number for a county in transition)
Kildare have 9 and Galway have 10 players who were on last years panel. I would say kildare are probaly a division 2 team and while Galway have shown great promise this spring. Until we see those performances repeated in this summer and next year, we will then see Galways true worth .But overall the top teams in the country, keep their players best. Outside div 1, its a different story altogether, with player turnover at unprecedented levels in the last few years.

We are seen for the first time in the last few years huge players turnover in strong traditional counties eg Cork Down . These counties are having their worst decade in generations . For example this is Meaths worst decade in 100 years, Galways worst decade since 1900 and Down and Cork worst decade in 70 years and Armagh Derry and loais worst decade in 50 years. It is also kildares worst decade in 90 years so far along with the 1980s.

All these counties are reaching all time lows collectively . As Paddy O Rourke said recently players are putting in huge effort but with no sucess on the field. The below stats tell the picture nationwide

Below r the number of players from counties who have were on panels last year, played in the league or championship in 2017 but did not play any role in this years league on the county team or panel.
First we name strong football counties who were successful in the recent past

Roscommon 12 players
Derry 19 players
Cork 18 players
Meath 16 players
Offaly 16 players
Galway 10 players
Down 12 players
Cavan 10 players
Laois 11 players

20 or 15 years ago it would be unimaginable if 12 players were off the Down panel in 12 months or 18 players in Cork. But that is happening now. Do the GAA care?. What happens when players start to leave the Mayos and Kerrys in droves in the future.

Other counties players who participanted in last years league or championship, but did not resurface this year

Leitrim 13 players
London 14 players
Sligo 13 players
longford 12 players
louth 14 players
Westmeath 13 players
Wexford 17 players
Wicklow 15 players
Clare 10 players
limerick 12 players
Antrim 14 players
Armagh 10 players

From a national level. This is very worrying. From a Meath respective, the numbers above show it is not unprecedented the numbers dropping of the Meath panel. Yes Meath are one of the highest dropout rates. But for nearly all division 2 3 and 4 teams the numbers are huge. Derry Cork Wexford have higher numbers of players then Meath that did not resurface in 2018 league but played in 2017 league or championship While Offaly Wicklow london Louth have pretty much the same numbers as Meath. While Armagh Galway Clare limerick Westmeath longford Leitrim Cavan laois and Roscommon are in double digits for players not far off Meaths number of player's

So to talk about Meath players no longer on the panel and not mention all the other counties facing pretty much the same issues is not telling the full story. Yes there is a major turnover of players in Meath in the last 12 months but there has been a major turnover of players in the last 12 months from Derry to Cork. 22 of the 32 counties have 10 or more players that participated last year but havent this year. More then one in three of every footballers nation wide that played a competitive game for their county in 2017 did not resurface in 2018 . Of the 1040 players nationwide who saw action in the league or championship in 2017, 366 have not played so far in 2018.

So it is unfair to see this just as a Meath problem. Many have seen it as an issue for our current management. Our management is to tough on players. Players are not happy. Well 35 % of the players from all the 32 counties who played last year in the league or champuinship did not resurface in this years league. Meaths management current team cannot be blamed for 18 players in Cork or 13 players in Derry or 16 in Offaly or 14 in louth not particapting in their respective counties panels. This is part and parcel of modern football. Every year now across division 2 3 and 4 and even division 1 counties there is a massive percentage fall off in the inter county game.Do the GAA care? Will the problem get worse?..Or we already nationwide at crisis level?. If the current trend continues in all the counties continues things will inevitably get worse and worse and maybe 1 or 2 counties in the country wil have very little turnver players. Is that what will happen in 2020s 2030s and 40s?. Time will tell.

Tombo2001

Sonny678 wrote: »

Regards Meath players leaving the panel.

Thats a super post - am assuming you have your facts right and its very interesting.

My feeling is that the club game is in the ascendancy, and that county titles are more relevant to a lot of guys than losing out in the second round of the championship with the county team.

Derry is the obvious one here.

Also I feel the league, ultimately, is a much better competition - notwithstanding that it doesnt carry nearly the same hype. Regular games against teams of similar ability, with realistic prize points at the end for all involved.

I think Monaghan a prime example of this. Staying in Division 1 is a huge goal for them. Against that, they get to championship like they did last year, play Dublin in QF.....i just dont think they believe they can win that game.

Regardless - I think your stats are very interesting. You hear this stuff anecdotally, but putting numbers on it gives the argument considerably more weight.

The basic fact is - Mayo, Dublin, Tyrone, Monaghan......players are staying. Everywhere else they are leaving.

You should put that post in an OP, and start a discussion around it.

Sonny678

Tombo2001 wrote:

Thats a super post - am assuming you have your facts right and its very interesting.

Thanks for your comments. The stats are from Irish Independent. When I first read them I was shocked at how widespread and high numbers are throughout the country particularly leinster. This is leinsters worst decade ever in terms of competitiveness. Compared to the late 90s a golden age, where you had 4 top division 1 teams in the provience all winning titles eg All Ireland leinster national league division 1. Even the 00s was much more competitive with it been Westmeath laois and kildares ( along with 90s) best decade in generations. Even in Meath we declined in 00s we still defeated Kerry Dublin Tyrone Mayo and Galway in the championship. We havent beaten 1 top division 1 team in the championship this decade so far. Players leaving leinster panels and panels nationwide is a serious negative thread. But as Paddy O Rourke said, your putting in so much effort with little or no return.

Hammer Archer

Well that was a very worrying result.

mushykeogh

Hammer Archer wrote: »

Well that was a very worrying result.

Yesterdays Hurling?

Hammer Archer

mushykeogh wrote: »

Yesterdays Hurling?

Yup. I know we were missing a good few players but really thought we'd be more competitive than that. Cannot see us getting anywhere close to the other teams in the group.

U17s easily won their first game of the Leinster championship after a 2-20 to 2-7 win over Westmeath.
Home to Dublin on May 23rd.

mushykeogh

Hammer Archer wrote: »

Yup. I know we were missing a good few players but really thought we'd be more competitive than that. Cannot see us getting anywhere close to the other teams in the group.

We seem to have gone backwards quite a bit since winning the Christy Ring, what has happened?

dobman88

Hammer Archer wrote: »

Well that was a very worrying result.

Could say the same again today. Footballers fairly convincing.

iDave

Real shame the hurlers have found the going so tough.

Ah well at least we got some silverware today.

Sonny678

If u dont like my style u better off stop reading now for this is a long long one covering problems and issues in Meath football.

I wouldnt give a prediction v Longford because as long as we can come out of Pearse Stadium with a victory I will be happy. Ever since the draw and watching team longford in Byrne Cup in Navan in the spring I always thought this game was a tough opener for Meath. And I havent changed my mind , I wouldnt be surprised if Longford won but of course Im hoping Meath win. Longford have had two big wins over Meath before which were very significant eg 1968, 1982. I hope on Sunday week we wouldnt have a third famous loss to the men from the Midlands.

What I will say if this game was in the qualifiers you would have to fancy longford big time. longford in the qualifiers in Peasre stadium.has been one of the toughest and trickiest place to go. With Mayo Derry Down and Monaghan all beaten in Pearse stadium. Like Sligo Wexford Tipperary and Fermanagh longford have shown outside the rigid proviencal championships, they can prosper as all these teams in the qualifiers have shown some great performances and victories.

In the leinster championship Longfords recent form had been poor. While Meath are having their worst decade since Independence people might be surprised to hear that after Dublin that Meath have been the second most successful county in leinster championship not kildare. kildare are fourth. In this decade Dublin are number 1 of course with 7 titles. Meath are second with 4 leinster final appearances and 1 leinster title, Westmeath are third with 2 leinster final appearances and kildare Wexford and louth are joint 4th with 1 leinster final appearance each .

Meath I always feel up their game come the championship . Meath are a great championship county and it would be very rare for Meath to lose their opening round of leinster championship. It usually happens in unusual circumstances eg losing to Offaly in 2000 . We were reigning All Ireland champions and had played in a national league division 1 final and replay a week or to before. And Offaly caught us in the first round. On 1992 laois defeated Meath in first round but that was the last game of that great 87 87 team , it was breaking up. Meath usually always play well in the first round. Theyre had been one or two bad performances recently V Carlow under Banty. And we had a game v Wicklow in first round in Navan under O Dowd where Wicklow caused a good few problems. But overall we usually start the championship well. Last two years we played well v louth in opening games. You would probaly have to back to 1982 when longford beat us in first round for a real bad defeat in leinster championship in first round.( I hope that is not a sign).As the game comes closer Im becoming quite anxious. I would love to have a crack at Dublin this year. I know people might laugh at that. I know Dublin will win. But still being from Meath playing Dublin in Croke Park is always the big one for us.But firstly we have to get over longford. Which will be a tough opener. Where both sides can win.

Meath I believe are not as bad as many people want or need us to be. We are not as good as we want to be eitheir. However I do believe there is potential with this young team and best management we have had since Boylan. But it will take time. Lots of it. I believe we are 24 months away from being were we want to be div 1 football team and reaching the super 8. When a traditional county is in the doldrums it takes years to turn things around. It took Boylan 4 years on 2 different occasion 86 96 to turn Meath around. It also took McGee 4 years to turn Offaly around in 1980 and it took Dywer 5 years in his second term to turn kildare around in 98. It took Pat Gilroy 3 years to turn Dublin around. While it took Jimmy Barry Murphy and Nicholas English years of bad defeats to turn their counties around in early 90s. It was not til the 4th year Kevin Walsh has turned Galway around. McEntee needs the same time.

I believed from the start of the year we wouldn't get promotion, the game with longford was a tough opener. If we won we would give Dublin a good rattle ( I know there is little evidence for that, just a gut feeling in that Meath are due performance v Dublin in the Meath v Dublin rivalry. Its a gut feeling based on no evidence other then also for me McEntee all year for me is setting a Meath team up to play Dublin tactically. ) Dublin of course will win and we will get knocked out of the championship in mid July.I believe next year we will see some sort of real progress next eg promotion to div 1 or defeat of top div 1 team in the championship)..And in year 4 I believe then we will see real progres eg div 1 football super 8 and pushing for leinster title. Thats only my opinion. I could be wrong. Its just my opinion. But I believe we are at least 24 months away from where we need to be. But u never know.

There are three massives issues for Meath in my opinion and of course underage needs to improve also.

1 The county the players are lacking serious belief in themselves that will take years of good management by good manager eg McEntee to turn around. We need to give this management time, we need lots of patience. As we will have many ups and downs to go yet.

2 Secondly a style of play that is modern and works. The way we won 7 Sams with traditional kick and catch long balls into forward line is not fit for purpose. Eitheir is the way other kick and catch counties won All Irelands not fit fot purpose eg Down and Galway. Football now is more possession based,more tactically driven and there must be more thought put into how a team must perform

Sean Boylans sucess was based on one tactic. That was organised choas. I know that makes no sense but let me try and explain. Every player fought for the ball like there life depended on it. There was no real tactic just get that ball into forward line as fast and as quick as you can and players like Geraghty and O Rourke had to fight tooth and nail to win possession. It was pretty basic tactically wise. But it was hugely sucessful and was actually very good to watch. Some of the football under Boylan was as good as kerry or Galway in 90s or 00s. There was great swashbuckling performances of brillant total football v Dublin 88 league final and 99 leinster final Offaly 98 99 Kerry 2015 and many more great games eg kildare 97 second game 2001 V Westmeath q final.

That system doesnt work anymore kicking long balls atop of your full forward line. Sweepers blanket defences kick out strategy are all changes since 2001..We have failed miserably to adapt. However I did actually think our performance v Westmeath on Sunday was a very modern style of play. I thought we played in an intelligent controlled and efficient way. We played like a modern team, like I would even say division 1 team. But that game is the only game I have seen that sort of efficent style for the full 70 mins. Before it was now and again. Its a start. But we now need to deliver it consistently. Against mid and then top div 2 teams. And then hopefully over a 2 to 3 year period we will see performances v div 1 teams. It will take time. But I thought Westmeath on Sunday was a real improvement even on wins we had v Down or louth or draw v Roscommon in the league. I have seen us hammer teams recently v Fermanagh Derry Clare. But this performance was more measured and more cleverer and well organised then I have seen. The next step is to see us perform like this consistently. I n the Longford game we could see a performance that is less impressive. We need to be patient.

3 Thirdly we have had three problem areas. First area in the half back line. We havent had a top class wing back since O Connell and an effective centre back since McManus. All the top teams have top class half backs eg Keegan Mcarthy McCaffrey Lacey. It is the most important area of the field in modern football. It where attacks start. If you have a strong half back line this is massive. We struggled at 5 6 and 7 all decade long. However I believe at the end of the league our half back line was improved compared to last year or even the start of this years league.

The moving of Donal keogham our best player a player who would walk onto 80s or 90s team from corner back to centre back is massive. He is wasted at 2. He always reminded me of Karl Lacey. And karl lacey was pivotal to Donegal sucess and the moving of him from the corner was a masterstroke by McGuiness.

Moving keoghan means for the first time in a long time, we have our best player in the half back line. He offers attacking threat which he showed on Sunday with a goal..But he offers leadership and football ability in this most important sector of the field.. He needs to learn how to hold the middle. But overall when he has played in the half back line v Second half Cork last year, louth this year and last year, Byrne cup campaign 2018, v Roscommon and Down 2018. When he played in the half back line in only those games recently we didnt lose any of them. Moving keoghan to 6 is massive plus. While two McEntees on wings have been effective and playing well.

Shane McEntee for me in the poor team performances v Tipp and Cavan was one of the few who kept trying to the very end. His performance last game v louth was very good. He is improving and needs to still to learn more defensive wing back play which will come with experience. But his atitude is top notch and we could at long last solve a problem position we had for years, the number 7 position.

James McEntee has been really impressive. He was wing forward. But could never find consistency in his play. He also suffered injuries. But the moving of James to wing back has been a great move. Any time he has played there we havent lost eg second half v Cork last year and Down louth and Westmeath game this year. He could become a really important player for us at 5.

Sonny678

Our half back line performance v Westmeath especially J McEntee on sunday was one of the best I have seen from Meath wing back in years.If he could keep playing well and be effective along with his cousin and keoghan we at long last could sort our this half back line problem which has bedevilled Meath football since 2001.

Conor McGill at full back is not well known but I view him as one if not the best young full back in the country. There are very few top class full backs in the country. He has been Meaths number 3 for 3 years since he was 20. And we have never felt the loss of Kevin Reilly..This is down to McGill. Irish Independent did a list of ten best players in this years 4 divisions in each division. The only Meath man in top 10 in division 2 was McGill. People havent seen him on the national stage but with Keoghan at 6 and McGill , Meath do have 2 top class defenders at centre of the defence. And with other defenders eg Conor Dempsey S Lavin Shane Glynn showing well and Mickey Burke now being used more as a sweeper . Meath defence since the Tipp and Cavan games has two positional changes and 1 new defender and 1 extra defender with Burke to come back and help. The defence has improved. But only till we play longford in championship and if we will play Dubs and play other teams in the qualifiers will we see the extent of improvement..The losses to Tipp and Cavan exposed the weakness in the team and McEntee had to go back to drawing board and change team selection. The moving of Keoghan and J McEntee to half back has been a massive positive.

The other problem Meath have had since 2001 is midfield. We havent had a top class midfielder since John McDermont. Gillespie S O Rourke and Nash all could have been quality midfielders. But we will never know. Last year we finished with Menton and a 19 year old half back in his first full game at midfield eg B Conlon. Menton has had 7 different partners in 1 year and half eg O Brien, Toher, Flanagan, Rooney, Jones, Conlon and Kennelly. This shows how much a problem midfield is. Menton himself his best position for me is wing back. But he does offer Atleticism at midfield. But you need a more traditional high fielding midfielder with Menton. Rooney would be the best we have here. But he had a poor league and after year travelling he needs to get match fitness and a years club football under him. Hes gone now so as impact sub he is a loss. But hopefully we see him next year.

Flanagan is more traditional midfielder. And I am a fan. His distribution lets him down at times..At 23 he can only improve. But Kennelly again is another player who appeared after Tipp and Cavan games. He was excellent v Louth Down and Westmeath before being sent off. Hopefully he can form a decent partnership with Menton. The last time Meath had a good season was 2012 2013 we had a strong partnership with Gillespie and Meade at center of midfield. My only worry with kennelly he is very inexperienced. Him and Menton have only played 1 full game together. We wouldnt know if Kennelly is a real option at midfield until he faces a quality midfielder like kildares Feehily. Maybe he is more a wing forward. But overall since last year and even start of the league kennellys impact along with Flanagan means midfield is improving. Breaking ball is still an issue we need to keep working at. We used to have breaking ball specialist in the past,, players who were exceptional at breaking ball eg Kevin Foley, Pat Reynold jnr and Seamus Kenny. I am a big fan of Kane from Simonstown. I think he is very good at breaking ball. But I think he was asked to join the panel last year but couldnt commit the time. I would definalty try and get him involved. Kane and Daire Rowe are the only players that I think r not on the panel or left the panel recently, in the county who could make a real difference, Rowe couldnt commit this year, hopefullly next year.

The one area that hasnt improved since last year is the forwards. The forwards will pretty much be the same as last year only for Brennan change. It could be weaker with Alan Forde out with his cruciate. He is a big player for us and when he comes back as wing forward he will be big addition.

We r relying on lenihan and then pacey players like Reilly Wallaces McMahon and Sullivan to cause problems. It has worked and big scores v Clare louth Derry Fermanagh prove that. But can it break down a blanket defence/sweepers. I have my doubts. We are playing more direct then we did v Tipp and Cavan. And Sullivan is stepping up to the plate with lenihan who was injured and lacking match fitness for much of the leagur. The loss of Mckeever is huge. For me Mckeever and lenihan both 26 27 , both at their peaks and both best forwards in the county. Mckeever for me is the best. I was looking forward to seen them play together this year. But they only played once v Down where we scored 4 -14 and they were very good. Lenihan was injured for the start of the league and Mckeever was played on the 40. Hopefully we will have Mckeever next year. Meath football sucess has always been based on duo in the full forward line eg 40s 50s McDermont Meegan 60s Curran Shanley 80s O Rourke Flynn, Stafford used to play a bit deep, 90s Ollie and Geraghty. The last time we had a good year in 2013 we had Newman and Wallace.

So a duo of in the full forward line of Mckeever and lenihan for me has huge potential with Sullivan playing a little deeper. A Sullivan Mckeever Lenihan full forward line would be a div 1 full forward line. But Mckeever loss is huge..I believe with him we could have had outside shot at Super 8. But with him gone I dont know if our forwards can break down stronger defences. This is a concern. And with Toibin gone as an impact sub. And other players like Conlon, the depth of our squad is effected and this could become a bigger issue later on in the summer.

The final issue for Meath and the one that shows we are so near yet so far is division 1 football..Everyone knows to be sucessful you need to play in div 1 and stay in div 1 you win titles eg Monaghan Tyrone and Donegal . Its always been the same. Meaths past sucess was based on div 1 football. After kerry and Dublin for 70 or 80 years Meath had one of the best records in division 1. Dublin always found Navan hard to win. So did many teams. When kildare won in Navan in 1999 or 2000 in the league it was their first win there in 70 years . Galway even to this day havent beaten us in Navan in over 30 years. Playing so much division 1 football helped us win 7 Sams in the past. Meath won national league division 1 titles in the 30s 40s 50s 70s 80s and 90s. And played in a national league div 1 final in the 00s. Meath played in senior all Ireland finals in 30s 40s 50s 60s 70s 80s 90s and 00s. Its linked. If Meath get into Division 1 and stay there you will see a big improvement. The same way you see how Monaghan have improved by playing divsion 1 in recent years.

Meath have been incredibly close to promotion to div 1. Even this year if we defeated Cavan we would have been promoted to div 1. In 4 of the 5 last seaons Meath were 1 win away from promotion to div 1. If we defeated Cavan this year, Down last year, Roscommon in 2015 and defeated not drew with Donegal in 2014 we would have been promoted to div 1 in each of those year. So we are very close , but yet so far.

If we could get promoted to divsion 1 , it would be a gamechanger for Meath football. The fact is Meath havent been in divsion 1 in 12 years ago the year we drew with Dublin defeated Galway and great Tyrone team of the 00s and reached All Ireland semi final. All in the year we played division 1 football. Its linked sucess = staying in divsion 1.

So in summary I think we have sorted out problems that surfaced in mid league. With a new half back line and new midfielder. But I still have worries with midfield and the forwards. In the forwards without Mckeever I don't see a difference since last year..If we could find consistency maybe we could go on a run in the qualifiers but for me its more likely we will see an improved Meath next year and the year affer. I must say also playing Mickey Burke at wing forward could also be a plus. He is a warrior and we have always played backs/leaders not just forwards in the forward line eg Cassells in 87 88, Reilly in 96, Curtis 99 and Moyles in 07. And when we played S Kenny in forwards in early decade it worked well. Playing a grafter, a hard worker in the half forward line who can come back and play sweeper also is something we havent done in a while. For the last few years we have usually always played 6 out and out forwards. Meath sucess is always based on a player/ a defender who turns into effective hard working forward eg Cassells 87 88 Moyles 07 S Kenny 2011 2012. Burke in the forwards could work.

Overall the longford game is a tough opener. If we play like we did on Sunday we will be hard to beat.If we play like we did v Tipp and Cavan longford will win pulling up..Which Meath will we see in Pearse stadium Sunday week..Time will tell.But whatever happens we need to give the current management and 2 years to keep improving. Anyone could see on sunday that McEntee is slowly but surely building a modern efficient proper gaelic football inter county team..But it will take time and many ups and downs before we really turn the corner. For the championship to be sucess..Alot of things would need to come together. For me its a long shot but not impossible. Next year and following year sucess will be attained eg division 1 football and Super 8 participants.

Felexicon

Great result for the minors tonight against Dublin

Hammer Archer

Anyone at it? Good to get into the habit of beating Dublin at underage.

Sonny678

Meath were brillant from start to finish. The hunger and passion was a sight to behold. It was old school Meath. They werent going to leave that field without victory. There is definalty a seachange at underage football. But we still need to turn this into trophies, something we have failed to do.

The change is for most of this decade Dublin have been wiping the floor at under 21 and minor with us, Kildare also. kildare have had their best underage period since the late 60s early 70s. And Dublin in this decade have produced the best minor team ever to come from the capital and some of the greatest under 21 teams from Dublin ever. Meath have had some bad defeats v the Dubs recently.

But in the last 3 or 4 years at under 14 16 17 you could see that the gap had not only closed. But Meath were now beaten Dublin regularly . This is so important. In terms of Meath football sucess has always been based on the ability to beat Dublin. Because of the rivalry. But also a realisation if you want to be sucessful in leinster you have to beat the Dubs. The Dubs have always been the benchmark and the kingpins of leinster football.

So Meath underage teams now to start beating the Dubs year after year is great not because its the old rival, but its means that when these players turn senior they will have no fear or aura v Dubs. This more then likely could lead to defeats at senior level for Dublin. Its not guaranteed but it is a masive massive help and positive development.

Look at this way in the last 3 years Meath have played Dublin 4 times at minor level ( including the new minor grade under 17 leinster final last year).In those 4 games v Dublin , Meath minors have had 3 victories v the Dubs in 3 years and in the other minor game v Dublin, Meath played Dublin off the field for 30 mins with 10 point lead at half time before a second half Dublin come back. Its been a long, long, long time since any county in leinster or lreland has in 3 years had 3 victories and another 1 strong performance v the Dubs at any grade, at any level. Its good to see for Meath and for leinster football in general.

But the problem is, we have a issue . That issue in that we now need to win trophies. When we hammered the Dubs at minor level in 2016 ,we didnt win leinster. kildare beat us the semis. For me now we should be going for our second or even are third leinster minor title in 3 or 4 years.If you beat Dublin you really should be winning leinster. I get the feeling we sometimes we believe , when Dublin are beaten we now have the title. We dont seem to realise when we beat Dublin, everyone else gets a lift and feels they can win leinster. And what has happened is we beat Dublin and then kildare beat us.Kildare have been a real nemesis for us at underage recently also. And my worry is they will knock us out and you have Dublin v kildare final. We need to start turning these results into titles. We have had some real results in last few years with the exception of under 17 new minor title last year, we havent won leinster. We need to follow this win up with a leinster title. If not, its another missed opportunity and very worrying development.

We had two strong minor teams in last 2 years ,1 team hammered Dublin the other played the Dubs off the field for half an hour. But we didnt even reach leinster final after. Kildare have been just as a big team for us beat at underage level recently. We need to turn these results into trophies. We have failed badly so far. But last night and under 17 win last year v the Dubs does give one hope there is still life and fight in the old county of Meath yet. We havent gone away and we are still here beating Dublin teams. Its great to see. Good for Meath and good for leinster and even good for the Dubs , for a strong competitive Meath is important. To give the Dubs credit they have alway relished great battles with Meath. And many of their supporters would welcome a more competitive Meath. Football needs a strong Meath v Dublin rivalry. Hopefully this is a new beginning for Meath football. Not another false dawn .

Sonny678

Dublin up to this decade were poor at underage, actually up to this decade Meath would have been more suscessful then Dublin at minor level in 00s and 90s and more sucessful at under 21 level in the 90s then Dublin. But Dublin at underage level in this decade have gone up a level. At minor and under 21 they have more become sucessful and very competitive. Kildare have also in the last 3 to 4 years had a golden age at minor level with a couple of titles. Meath have been very poor at under 21 level since early 00s and at minor level have dropped down the table in leinster since 2008, our last leinster win at that level. We did reach an All Ireland final at minor level in 2012 ,which was the only leinster team to reach a minor All Ireland final besides Dublin since laois in 2003 and Meath in 2002. But overall this decade has been poor at underage for us. We ignored the underage teams. There has been work done recently and there has been results to show that. We just need titles to really back up the work.

You might want to downplay Meath beating Dublin 3 years on the trot at underage level , but the fact that is unusual in leinster football in this decade. Even in the past beating Dublin regularly in the championship by 1 team is not very common. The fact is kerry are trying to build there next great team on All Ireland winnig minor teams, and while Meath have got no where near kerrys level. Beating Dublin teams in consecuative years has been in the past the launching pad for great Meath teams to win trophies.
Tipp and kilkenny rivalry in hurling defines both counties. Cody grew up seen Tipp teams beat kilkenny year in year out. Kilkenny were soft ,Tipp were tougher thats what they used to say. So when he became manger the one team he wanted to beat more then anyone was Tipp. He built a powerful physical team that would never be bullied by Tipp. Rivalries have a massive role in GAA, how counties respond to neighbours sucess. Kerry will never want to lose to Cork in Croker. Mayo and Galway respond to each other. In the 90s Mayo came very close , then Galway won Sam in 98. Again in this decade Mayo have come very close , Galway seem to be coming again. Its like Galway are getting to Mayos level and then using that to suceeed outside the provience.

If you look at Meath football the rivalry v Dublin is central. And for Dublin the rivalry with Meath and then kerry was central Dublin up to this decade. It wasnt that long ago that beating Meath in the championship was the highlight of the year for a Dublin footballer. Cluxton and Alan Brogan played on those teams. Of course the kerry rivalry is one sided now and the Meath rivalry is dead, but this has happenned before many times. In the ealry 30s, mid 40s, ealry 60s, mid 80s and mid 90s Dublin were just as dominant and Meath were in worst positions. Being in this position is nothing new to Meath football. Dublin have alway had the popualtion, the resources, many many times bigger then Meath.

Tipp and kilkenny are similar enough counties Cork and Kerry are similar enough counties , so are Galway and Mayo and Tyrone and Armagh. Yes there is differences but none compared to the differences that are between Meath and Dublin, Which is the most unequal rivalry in Irish sport. In soccer terms Dublin are Man Utd and Meath are leicister City, but yet for 80s years up to this decade Meath went toe to toe with the countries most populated ,most powerful , most iconic and most famous county.
So before this decade for 80 years or so Meath were going toe to toe with Dublin

In 1940s Dublin win 1 All Ireland Meath won 1 All Ireland
In 1950s Dublin win 1 All Ireland Meath win 1 All Ireland
In 1960s Dublin win 1 All Ireland Meath win 1 All Ireland
In 1970s Dublin win 3 All Ireland Meath win 0 All Irelands
In 1980s Dublin win 1 All Ireland Meath win 2 All Irelands
In 1990s Dublin win 1 All Ireland Meath win 2 All Ireland
In Noughties Dublin win 0 All Ireland Meath win 0 All Irelands

Its in this decade Dublin have gone up a level, Dublin have always been in the top 4 or 5 teams in the country, but in this decade they have replaced Kerry as the number 1 football county. Dublin were just as strong in mid 80s as now the only thing was they couldnt beat Kerry ,they can now. Dublin have won 12 of the last 13 leinster tiltes and played in 5 All Ireland finals in 13 years. In the the same kind of period of 11 years 1974 to 1985 Dublin won 9 leinster titles in 11 years and played in 9 All Ireland finals in the same period. The only difference is now they are winning them all and they can beat Kerry ,something they do couldnt in the 70s and 80s. We have been here before with a superstrong Dublin.

For Meath our sucess was built on a couple of things . For example great GAA men like Paddy O Brien Peter McDermont Jack Quinn Fr Tully Colm O Rourke and Sean Boylan to name a few. But it facing down and beating Dublin which as been so key to Meaths past sucess. And this is why beating Dublin in consecutive years is so so so important. Firstly it rarely happens. When was the last time a county defeated Dublin in 3 years 3 times and also another 1 strong performance in that period in leinster at any grade or even outside leinster, It rarely happens.

But Meath have been doing this for generations, beating Dublin teams. What has happenned in leinster football down the ages is Dublin for 6 or 7 years defeats Meath 4 or 5 o r 6 times in a row in consecuative years and then Meath come from nowhere knock Dublin from their perch and in a 6 or 7 year period Meath defeat Dublin year after year, 4 or 5 or 6 times in the leinster championship. The greatest example of this was in the 80s and 90s in 15 years when Meath defeated Dublin 9 times ( in 7 leinster finals , 1 league div 1 national final) and 3 draws. Beating Dublin in consecuative years in 40s 50s 60s 80s and 90s meant when Meath came out of leinster they had belief and were afraid of noone, kerry Cork Mayo or northern teams. Beating Dublin in a leinster final is the closest thing to an All Ireland final. And whenever a team beat Dublin in any era you are beating one of the top teams in the country, but also one of the most difficult opponents in gaelic football, a Dublin footballer in front of packed Hill 16.

Meath beating Dublin teams in the past was the launching pad for Meath teams to win Sam. After beating Dublin in 1947 1964 1975 1986 1996 2010 Meath went from outsiders to genuinie All Ireland contenders over night. And those victories have led most of them to Meath winning Sam in the following years. When you beat Dublin at any grade year after year its a massive boost and gives a massive belief to any county. Look at how Dublin didnt win Sam between 1996 and 2010, yet most of the teams that beat Dublin in that era went on to win Sam eg meath 96, 99, Armagh in 02 and Tyrone and Kerry in the 00s. So its important at senior level to beat Dublin. But beating Dublin at underage level particularly in this golden age for Dublin football, it can be so important for those young footballers when they become senior.

Yes Dublin have been poor at underage level up to this decade. But they have become very strong recently at underage. And its very rare for a county to beat Dublin a few times in a short period at any level. It doesnt matter how anyone downplays beating Dublin at underage level , for any county it is a massive help and advatange.

Meath need to keep the players on board, not lose them to Auzzie rules etc. Something Dublin dont have a problem with. And yes Meath need to win trophies also and start to beat kildare at underage also, And maybe it a false dawn, who knows, but it could also be a beginning. Meaths fight back v the Dubs starts here and it might take time and years to topple Dublin. But no one knows whats around the corner. But maybe just maybe when people look at Meath hammering Dublin in 2016, and Meath beating Dublin in 2017 in a leinster final and Meath beating Dublin again this year all at underage in leinster championship, they will say this was when Meath football turned the corner and rose up from ashes and did what we have done for generations and generations, topple the Dubs, knock the Dublin from their perch. To see 16 and 17 years old playing with such passion and fire v the Dubs last night and last year and in 2016, it gives me hope that Meath football has not gone way, there life in the old county yet, and as long as there is a leinster championship and a hill 16 and Dublin GAA, Meath will keep coming and keep coming and keep coming and keep trying to knock Dublin from their perch. It might not happen soon or maybe in a while.. Dublin have to stay at the top all the time. We the underdogs, the boggers, the culchies, only have to beat the jackeens, the Dubs once and then twice or three times and then its game on.

So congratulations to the young footballers of Meath last night. You have done what Meath footballers have done for decades ,bring the determination guts and bravey and beat the Dubs. Well done, your Meath footballers now. You can only be called a true Meath gael when you beat Dublin in leinster. No one knows what the football lanscape will be in 5 or 6 years times. If you say Meath beating Dublin at underage is irrevelant, maybe u r right , but u also could be wrong. We might lose to longford on Sunday or be hammered v Dublin in the semi final. But in the coming years , its doesnt matter what agenda you have, if your a member of ABM brigade, the fact is results like last nights and in 2017 and 2016 are definalty not an hinderance, its definatly not a negative, it surely can only be a positive for the future of Meath football. Come on the Da Royals .

Obrieski

Any sign of a team for Sunday?

Nerves are shot, hoping for a big performance but by no means will it be easy.

Sonny678

One point about the Meath v Dublin minor match last week. It is some turnaround we are having v the Dubs in the last 3 years at minor level compared to 6 or so years where Dublin were beating Meath out the gate at minor level year after year.

In the last 3 years Meath have played Dublin at minor level 5 times including the new inaugural new minor under 17 leinster championship last year. In those 5 Meath v Dublin games in 3 years Meath have won 4 times v the Dubs at minor and in the fifth game Meath were unlucky to lose in extra time after being 10 points up at half time v the Dubs. That is an impressive turnaround v the Dubs at underage. Its long long time at underage since Dublin were beaten 4 times by the same county in a couple of years in leinster or outside leinster at underage or even senior. We need to back these results up with leinster titles. Dublin under Sherlock wouldnt want to lose to Meath twice in the same year again this year. And kildare will fancy their chances also after their very good record at minor recently. The leinster minor is wide open. But with us beating Dublin we should be looking to win leinster. Hopefully we do. I hope its new beginning not another false dawn.

Al_Coholic

Where do Meath go from here
I thought things couldn't get any worse but this is beyond embarrassing

Hammer Archer

How very expected.

Rock Lesnar

Well that was a fairly predictable outcome to be honest, performances have been average at best so far this year, i felt if we kept up that level that longford would beat us, yeah the red card didnt help, but we were playing catch up all game, sooner this championship run ends the better.

Mongfinder General

Ffs. This is the lowest point in Meath football that I can remember.

enricoh

Tyrone in the qualifiers tomorrow I presume?!

sc86

longford were 5/2 - buying money

how anybody expected a win today i dont know