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Should we protest against the pope's visit?

work

I believe a huge protest against the popes visit is required to show the government and church they are no longer welcome or wanted in our society. What do you think? There are many stakeholders that should protest their removal from any influence in our society. Some that come to mind are:
1) Anyone not supportive of misogyny
2) Anyone that doesn't believe in school indoctrination of children in a massive lie.
3) Anyone concerned about abusers in positions allowing abuse
4) Anyone with the most basic scientific education.
5) Anyone that doesn't support cults
6) Anyone that believes LGBT people should be treated fairly in society.
7) Anyone that believes women should have ANY control of their bodies.
8) Anyone that is not seen as equal in the church namely women children and men.

There are many other areas but I realised I have covered everyone. As such let's all go to the Phoenix park to let the Vatican know they are not welcome.
Are there any peaceful groups planning to protest?

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Graces7

Not a matter of changing "their entire belief system; as they are very much alike. Not a "different religion" either. And not "sexism"

We woman have huge role to play and in many ways more so than the priests etc.

Equality is not homoegeneity . Who wants to be like a .... man!

Leroy42 wrote: »

What, so you think they should change their entire belief system, probably one that has been ingrained in them since childhood and pretend to agree with a different religion simply because they are women?

We are always told that being a priest is a calling, a message from God himself. But rather than deal with the inherent sexism you think it best to just tell women to find somewhere else to work.

And of course being barred from becoming a priest is simply the most visible result of the practice.

Do you think protests never achieve anything? The water protests prove that theory wrong. Do you think we wouldn't have WC now if it wasn't from the protests.

DO you think women would have a vote if it wasn't for the protests of the suffragetes? Do you think apartheid would have ceased without the protests in SA and across the world.

It will let the pope know that those protesters have concerns. It will let the state know that all people are not happy with the Catholic Church. It will drive home that Ireland is no longer the country it was in 1979. I would hope that with enough support it would show the pope that the organisation that he heads is not welcome here until it changes and makes amends for the many terrible things it oversaw over many years.

Leroy42

knipex wrote: »

If any woman wants to be a priest that badly then the Anglican church or church of Ireland would welcome them with open arms.

What, so you think they should change their entire belief system, probably one that has been ingrained in them since childhood and pretend to agree with a different religion simply because they are women?

We are always told that being a priest is a calling, a message from God himself. But rather than deal with the inherent sexism you think it best to just tell women to find somewhere else to work.

And of course being barred from becoming a priest is simply the most visible result of the practice.

knipex wrote: »

But again I will ask the question. What exactly will a protest at the popes visit achieve ??

Do you think protests never achieve anything? The water protests prove that theory wrong. Do you think we wouldn't have WC now if it wasn't from the protests.

DO you think women would have a vote if it wasn't for the protests of the suffragetes? Do you think apartheid would have ceased without the protests in SA and across the world.

It will let the pope know that those protesters have concerns. It will let the state know that all people are not happy with the Catholic Church. It will drive home that Ireland is no longer the country it was in 1979. I would hope that with enough support it would show the pope that the organisation that he heads is not welcome here until it changes and makes amends for the many terrible things it oversaw over many years.

knipex

Leroy42 wrote: »

And his position on women priests?

There is no doubt that he is far more progressive than his predecessor, but that is damning him with faint praise. Should he be given kudos for acknowledging LGBT are people too? Accepting of them!

That he brings in experts rather than uses a 2000+ year old book, well good for him. Most people have been doing that for years.

If any woman wants to be a priest that badly then the Anglican church or church of Ireland would welcome them with open arms.

But again I will ask the question. What exactly will a protest at the popes visit achieve ??

ohnonotgmail

munchkin_utd wrote: »

the government isnt paying his expenses , so you can rest easily

so the church will be paying for the garda overtime?

s7ryf3925pivug

It's not about objections to him as an individual. It's about specific issues with the institution he represents. If he has a progressive mindset then perhaps he might even respond positively.

Best to keep it simple: Pay the reparations they owe us.

Leroy42

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

And his position on women priests?

There is no doubt that he is far more progressive than his predecessor, but that is damning him with faint praise. Should he be given kudos for acknowledging LGBT are people too? Accepting of them!

That he brings in experts rather than uses a 2000+ year old book, well good for him. Most people have been doing that for years.

munchkin_utd

Boardnashea wrote: »

I have no problem with Mr Pope visiting Ireland.
However I do have a problem with the Government paying his expense account while he is here.
<snip>

the government isnt paying his expenses , so you can rest easily

Boardnashea

I have no problem with Mr Pope visiting Ireland.
However I do have a problem with the Government paying his expense account while he is here.
If a particular church want their leader to visit then invite her/him, put her/him in a nice hotel, rent the Phoenix Park for a big party, pay for Gardaí to follow her/him around and then see her/him safely back onto the boat/train/plane and send them off home again.
But not on my taxes!

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Leroy42

Will I Am Not wrote: »

I’m just sick of protests at this stage. We’re now at the stage where people are protesting against democracy and decisions in a court of law.

Who is protesting against democracy?

And who is protesting about a court of law?

People are protesting because the set-up of things is not suitable now (if it ever was).

Take Trumps election for example. The majority voted for one candidate, but because of an archaic system, made up at a time of long travel times and less engagement, the other person got in. It is perfectly reasonable for protesters to point out the issue and look for change.

In terms of the court case, lets take the example of the recent Ulster trial. People are protesting that the system is stacked against the alleged victim. They have to almost prove they have never done anything to suggest they might be up for it. Not going to get into the case here, but there is clear issue with how the legal system deals with these cases (and there are plenty of examples of how alleged perpetrators are badly let down as well).

I find it hard to understand why people seem to be more upset with a few protesters than they are at the head of an organisation that undertook multiple child rapes, actively covered up the crimes and facilitated the perpetrators to avoid justice and in many cases placed them back into situations where they could continue their crimes. An organisation that condemns people for wanting an abortion, yet feels nothing for the actual children placed in their care. An organisation that spent many years vilifying gay people, an issue that will linger for many years to come. An organisation that feels that condom's are so evil as to preach against their use in communities ravaged with AIDS.

But you're right, these people with their signs and whistles are the problem.

baylah17

garbo speaks wrote: »

Take a wild guess, Sherlock.

Again why?

TheValeyard

Im going to go protest about the protesters

work

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Why do you assume that you speak for all of society OP?

I asked a question "Should we...." as no opinion represents all of society. I just gave my opinion. The responses have shown various general groupings.
1) Would like to actively protest the pope coming to Ireland.
2) Don't care and will ignore. Plenty dislike protest due to muppets protesting about everything.
3) Actively support his coming. Either to support the religeon or feel a protest is in some way non tolerant!
It was interesting to see how divided it is.

I think the second group is the largest.

Rezident

And don't worry about your protestors - we can all sadly and depressingly guarantee that the very same protestors who are out regularly abusing the Gardai will be there, as always, with their palestinian flags and water charges signs, loudly and abusively protesting whatever and making the world a worse place.

Rezident

work wrote: »

I believe a huge protest against the popes visit is required to show the government and church they are no longer welcome or wanted in our society. What do you think? There are many stakeholders that should protest their removal from any influence in our society. Some that come to mind are:
1) Anyone not supportive of misogyny
2) Anyone that doesn't believe in school indoctrination of children in a massive lie.
3) Anyone concerned about abusers in positions allowing abuse
4) Anyone with the most basic scientific education.
5) Anyone that doesn't support cults
6) Anyone that believes LGBT people should be treated fairly in society.
7) Anyone that believes women should have ANY control of their bodies.
8) Anyone that is not seen as equal in the church namely women children and men.

There are many other areas but I realised I have covered everyone. As such let's all go to the Phoenix park to let the Vatican know they are not welcome.
Are there any peaceful groups planning to protest?

People like you are making the world a worse place. I can't agree with the catholic church but the current pope is clearly one of the better ones and at least he is trying to make the world a better place, which is more than can be said for you.

Will I Am Not

Leroy42 wrote: »

I find it strange that people are complaining that some people want to protest.

Are those complaining doing so because they think all protests are inherently bad or just because it happens to be the Catholic Church?

I’m just sick of protests at this stage. We’re now at the stage where people are protesting against democracy and decisions in a court of law.

Leroy42

knipex wrote: »

Oh sweet f*&K

What exactly will protesting the popes visit achieve ??

Religion is not as important as it used to be precisely because people ignored the church. it became relevant for that very reason..

Dont feed it starve it..

Religion is still very important to a very large section of the community, and more importantly to the state. Yes it has diminished but the last time the Pope visited was 1979 and who knows when he will return. When else do you think people should make their feelings known.

The church didn't become irrelevant simply because people ignored it, people actively stood up to it. They called it out when it tried to cover things up. They undertook lengthy campaigns to have their voices heard. Do you think the CC would have told us about Tuam babies on their own?

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Why do you assume that you speak for all of society OP?

They don't are seeking peoples opinions.

billyhead wrote: »

I know people are free to express their opinions but what exactly is protesting going to achieve other then create bad PR. The redress scheme is in place to compensate people that were abused so leave it at that.

Create bad PR for whom? If its for the church, then that's their problem and they should be willing to deal with issues. If its for the country, then really? People protesting is bad PR?

Throughout all this back and forth, nobody has been able to put forward a reason why it is acceptable for an organisation to practice such blatant sexism and why we should, when the state has said that it values men and women equally, welcome a person so against that ideal.

Leroy42

Of course your opinion is allowed.

So its the people making the protest that you have a problem with, along with the things they are protesting. Is that right?

So you have no problem with protests once they are the type of people you like and about the things that you consider important?

These liberal, leftists have an issue and want to be heard. What is wrong with that. Are you ok with roads being blocked for the Pope to visit? Eating up resources to cover the event.

I have no issue with him coming here, I have no issue with people that want to protest what is clearly and organisation that has serious issues. If you don't think that sexism and child molestation are important issue to be addressed I do wonder what you do consider important.

I get it, the Catholic church has no impact on you. Maybe you were in a loveless marriage fro years being told that you couldn't get divorced because that what the church believed. Maybe you weren't affected, or know of anyone that was, by the child rape cases, the mother an baby homes. Maybe you don't care that many parents are forced to baptise their children simply because the church put their need for recruits ahead of the education of children. And maybe you or not a woman or care that the organisation practices blatant sexism.

Good for you, that really is great. But there are plenty of people can do see the problems, and see the head of the organisation as the symbol of that organisation.

DEFTLEFTHAND

P.Walnuts wrote: »

We need to watch out for the fake Pope, he can be identified by his high top sneakers and incedibly foul mouth

Isn't Francis the 'fake' Pope. Church apparently made a hash of Benedict's abdication.

billyhead

knipex wrote: »

Not really complaining but giving an opinion (which isn't really allowed anymore)

But seeing as you asked..

Sick of the same twats protesting everything, blocking roads, eating up resources and getting in the way of the vast majority who just want to get on with their lives..

So protests in general but especially liberal, lefty, whingy protests.. where a protest is protested by those protesting against another group begin involved tin their protest even though its not their protest but a general protest.

That kind of bullsh1t protest..

Understand now ??

I know people are free to express their opinions but what exactly is protesting going to achieve other then create bad PR. The redress scheme is in place to compensate people that were abused so leave it at that.

knipex

Leroy42 wrote: »

I find it strange that people are complaining that some people want to protest.

Are those complaining doing so because they think all protests are inherently bad or just because it happens to be the Catholic Church?

Not really complaining but giving an opinion (which isn't really allowed anymore)

But seeing as you asked..

Sick of the same twats protesting everything, blocking roads, eating up resources and getting in the way of the vast majority who just want to get on with their lives..

So protests in general but especially liberal, lefty, whingy protests.. where a protest is protested by those protesting against another group begin involved tin their protest even though its not their protest but a general protest.

That kind of bullsh1t protest..

Understand now ??

DEFTLEFTHAND

Why do you assume that you speak for all of society OP?

knipex

Leroy42 wrote: »

I wondering how then do you thing change ever happens? According to you, people unhappy with something should simply stay away. You do realise that the reason that religion is not as important as it used to be is because people stood up to practices that people had simply accept or ignored in the past.

Oh sweet f*&K

What exactly will protesting the popes visit achieve ??

Religion is not as important as it used to be precisely because people ignored the church. it became relevant for that very reason..

Dont feed it starve it..

Leroy42

I find it strange that people are complaining that some people want to protest.

Are those complaining doing so because they think all protests are inherently bad or just because it happens to be the Catholic Church?

Leroy42

knipex wrote: »

Its about making noise and an opportunity to

a) to feel good about yourself and you look down on all those religious nutjobs
b) Pontificate about how you are so superior.
c) Show how your more important than people who believe differently
d) just piss people off.
e) Draw media attention to an event you are not in favour of.
f) Achieve absolutely nothing to benefit yourself.

Irish society has changed dramatically and is continuing to change. None gives a fiddlers about your religion or lack there of except you..

I wondering how then do you thing change ever happens? According to you, people unhappy with something should simply stay away. You do realise that the reason that religion is not as important as it used to be is because people stood up to practices that people had simply accept or ignored in the past.

[Deleted User]

Down with that sort of thing. No way. We won’t pay. What do we want? A protest. When do we want it? Now.

knipex

work wrote: »

What I think it could achieve is the political push to remove the choke-hold and damaging control they have over schooling. This is happening but too slowly and I do not want to see it any longer especially for my kids.
People will attend it so it is a complete waste of time to try and keep people away. The catholic church has support as people were indoctrinated from a young age into it and in their society....
I absolutely agree that the usual headbangers that like to protest will be there but what can we do? Perhaps if the good ordinary people that realise the churches hold is wrong were to take a stand then something could be achieved. Political parties will implement policies that get them elected so we should show them this matters.

Sweet baby jeebus and his holy mother.

I went to school in the late 70's and was "indoctorined" to a far far greater extent than any child today.

My kids go to a local church of Ireland school.
I haven't set foot in a church except for a wedding or a funeral in over 20 years..
My kids were baptised, mainly because their mother wanted them to be but we stopped there. When they are older they can make their own choices.

They do religion at school and ask lots of questions about it, we answer them, explain about other religions but christian denominations and non christian faiths. When they are older they can decide for themselves what to believe.

Kids are kids, the days of this country being run by the church are long gone. My generation and the generation before that did a lot to end that but we didn't make a huge noise about it. We just got on with our lives without the need to be seen to protest.

Do something that will actually make a difference instead of making noise..

work wrote: »

d) just piss people off.??? Peaceful protest

Thats just funny.....

work

knipex wrote: »

Its about making noise and an opportunity to

a) to feel good about yourself and you look down on all those religious nutjobs
b) Pontificate about how you are so superior.
c) Show how your more important than people who believe differently
d) just piss people off.
e) Draw media attention to an event you are not in favour of.
f) Achieve absolutely nothing to benefit yourself.

Irish society has changed dramatically and is continuing to change. None gives a fiddlers about your religion or lack there of except you..

Interesting and misguided reply:
a) to feel good about yourself and you look down on all those religious nutjobs....Why would you look down on anyone
b) Pontificate about how you are so superior.....Why would anyone think they are superior?
c) Show how your more important than people who believe differently....Why would anyone think they are superior to someone that thinks differently, do you mean those of us that cannot go to heaven because we are not in the club
d) just piss people off.??? Peaceful protest
e) Draw media attention to an event you are not in favour of......THIS IS A GOOD IDEA
f) Achieve absolutely nothing to benefit yourself......POSSIBLY ALTER THE HOLD THE CHURCH HAS ON OUR SCHOOLS

work

knipex wrote: »

Ahhh go away..

Just what need,, another bloody protest that achieves nothing except give the usual suspects a chance to appear on a stage or grab a megaphone..

We must have a hard core group of professional protesters at this stage..

You would achieve a much better result with wider ranging implications nationally and internationally if you just convinced everyone to stay away..

Imagine, all that pomp, all that ceremony, all the media and no-one shows...

Or those that consider themselves catholic and who want to show up and see \ meet the leader of their religion can do so without without bothering you or you bothering them.. no major headlines or news footage of the usual twats shouting into megaphones..

What I think it could achieve is the political push to remove the choke-hold and damaging control they have over schooling. This is happening but too slowly and I do not want to see it any longer especially for my kids.
People will attend it so it is a complete waste of time to try and keep people away. The catholic church has support as people were indoctrinated from a young age into it and in their society....
I absolutely agree that the usual headbangers that like to protest will be there but what can we do? Perhaps if the good ordinary people that realise the churches hold is wrong were to take a stand then something could be achieved. Political parties will implement policies that get them elected so we should show them this matters.

knipex

Leroy42 wrote: »

You have contradicted yourself in your own post. The protestors should stay away and just let the people who want to be there show how happy they are. How do you think that will look in the media?

That's right, the pope visits Ireland and met with crowds cheering and not a dissenting voice to be heard. Its not about bothering people (although protests tend to have that side effect). It is about getting your voice heard, letting those in power know that we don't all share the one opinion.

Its about making noise and an opportunity to

a) to feel good about yourself and you look down on all those religious nutjobs
b) Pontificate about how you are so superior.
c) Show how your more important than people who believe differently
d) just piss people off.
e) Draw media attention to an event you are not in favour of.
f) Achieve absolutely nothing to benefit yourself.

Irish society has changed dramatically and is continuing to change. None gives a fiddlers about your religion or lack there of except you..