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Belfast rape trial - all 4 found not guilty Mod Note post one

Sam Quentin

Strange.. I'm kinda relieved it's all over.

http://www.thejournal.ie/belfast-rape-trial-verdict-3928309-Mar2018/

Mod Note Keep this relevant to this thread and don't bring up others. ie the eighth amendment thread.

MOD NOTE By the way don't post anything from members on the jury that's appearing online.

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Comments

c.p.w.g.w

Is there any sponsors giving out about All Porter who hasn't been cleared of the allegations getting back to work?

Since the lads acquitted are having their employers threatened with withdrawal of sponsorship...

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GreeBo

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Huh?
They know they know them because.....they know them!
Knowing someone has nothing to do with being drunk or not.
Rephrasing your post but following the same logic means that blind drunk people wont know they have been raped since in your opinion they are so blind drunk they dont even know that the person who raped them is known to them.

I'd politely suggest that you are twisting the stats to within in inch of their life to try and prove your point here.

My point is that I strongly believe someone who is knowingly going to commit as assault, sexual or otherwise, is going to target vulnerable people over those that are not vulnerable. Being drunk makes you more vulnerable.

Triceratops Ballet

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

Is there any sponsors giving out about All Porter who hasn't been cleared of the allegations getting back to work?

Since the lads acquitted are having their employers threatened with withdrawal of sponsorship...

Is Al Porter going back to work? WHY?!!

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emeraldwinter

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So we have a culture of men and women being attacked. How can we address this ?

[Deleted User]

kylith wrote:

Have I missed anything?

Everything, it seems

joe40

God that is some rant above. Too long to quote but you think anyone who gets their son to read the soberpaddy article is ashamed of their own gender. Seriously that what you took from it.
Most of the posters I can disagree with but at least I can see where they are coming from.
That one is just full of a serious amount of anger.
For what it worth Becky/odette is a lowlife, no one said women were all perfect.

wexie

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Ta F*ck he is suggesting that.

He's suggesting not being blind drunk might have been of help in preventing a rape taking place.

wexie

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And you still don't think that NOT being blind drunk might be helpful in some (I'd argue most in fact) situations?

GreeBo

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No. The point I am trying to make is that I believe that being drunk increases your chances of being raped.

GreeBo

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Indeed they are, that doesn't negate my point at all, Im not sure how you think it does?

If the "victim" doesn't know that they were raped I'm honestly not sure why you are even bringing them up?

Unless you somehow want us to resolve the problem of unreported, unknown rapes?

GreeBo

emeraldwinter wrote: »

So we have a culture of men and women being attacked. How can we address this ?

I propose aimless marching and something to do with signs and how men are all evil and bad.

I am 100% against giving advice to all people on how to avoid getting yourself into situations and conditions where you might be attacked.

emeraldwinter

GreeBo wrote: »

I propose aimless marching and something to do with signs and how men are all evil and bad.

I am 100% against giving advice to all people on how to avoid getting yourself into situations and conditions where you might be attacked.

Same way I would advise against anyone getting so drunk they pass out in public. Minimum you will probably be robbed. Especially in Dublin city centre.

GreeBo

emeraldwinter wrote: »

Same way I would advise against anyone getting so drunk they pass out in public. Minimum you will probably be robbed. Especially in Dublin city centre.

Nice victim blaming there!

Are you saying that just because I pass out on the street its somehow my fault that I was robbed? Was I asking for it just because of my lifestyle?

/end sarcasm

the_pen_turner

GreeBo wrote: »

No. The point I am trying to make is that I believe that being drunk increases your chances of being raped.

i have to agree .
being drunk doesnt mean its your fault but it does make you a more favorable target for the rapist.

if your sober ,you have a better change of seeing any suspisions behavion or people around you or seeing that the rapist is trying to drug you or lure you into a more secluded area

emeraldwinter

the_pen_turner wrote: »

i have to agree .
being drunk doesnt mean its your fault but it does make you a more favorable target for the rapist.

if your sober ,you have a better change of seeing any suspisions behavion or people around you or seeing that the rapist is trying to drug you or lure you into a more secluded area

Remember the big issue of spiking drinks years ago. Was the advice not to leave your drink alone or never drink and drink you left alone victim blaming.. Or just good advice.

tretorn

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I have been all over the States and in most Western european countries and I have never seen women wear those awful revealing outfits Irish women wear.

Summer is upon us soon and out will come the tight fitting shorts which the size 16 women will squeeze into, the muffin around the middle will hang out under the crop top. Shudders.

Public intoxication is not as obvious in other European cities as it is in Ireland, everything goes here and no Gardai to be seen. Our bigger cities are places to avoid in the evenings and our hospitals are hell on earth with drunks every weekend.

Seemingly that spiking of drinks was an urban myth, the reality was women were drinking themselves into drunken stupors and waking up not knowing whether they had sex or not, they blamed someone spiking their drink for the alcohol induced blackouts.

Triceratops Ballet

tretorn wrote:

Summer is upon us soon and out will come the tight fitting shorts which the size 16 women will squeeze into, the muffin around the middle will hang out under the crop top. Shudders.

Not to mention the needlessly topless lads sporting beer bellies and bigger tits than me, you wouldn't see foreign men carry on like that. Foreigners are sooooo much better than us classless grunts

Seriously lad wtf is your problem how is any of your diatribe about how gross Irish women are in any way relevant

Hitman3000

tretorn wrote:

I have been all over the States and in most Western european countries and I have never seen women wear those awful revealing outfits Irish women wear.

Sorry dude but you are spouting utter crap. Yes we all get it you hate Irish and British women. Been refused a lot were you?

tretorn

No, foreign men do take more care of themselves than Irish men and yes the topless men with manboobs is horrible too.

You will only generally see that on the beach though or in public parks, they usually cover up when out and about.

The women though let it all hang out, you can spot them in Majorca or wherever they go on holidays. They are already on the alcohol in the airport and they live on chips for the holiers.

Its all very cringy.

wexie

tretorn wrote: »

Seemingly that spiking of drinks was an urban myth, the reality was women were drinking themselves into drunken stupors and waking up not knowing whether they had sex or not, they blamed someone spiking their drink for the alcohol induced blackouts.

Mmmmmaybe in some cases, I'll give ya that, but there's plenty toxicology reports out there to prove your 'urban myth' precisely that.

Game Face MCGee

emeraldwinter wrote: »

the_pen_turner wrote: »

i have to agree .
being drunk doesnt mean its your fault but it does make you a more favorable target for the rapist.

if your sober ,you have a better change of seeing any suspisions behavion or people around you or seeing that the rapist is trying to drug you or lure you into a more secluded area

Remember the big issue of spiking drinks years ago. Was the advice not to leave your drink alone or never drink and drink you left alone victim blaming.. Or just good advice.

that was hilarious "epidemic" at the time, all these people getting mouldy drunk, ending up in A&E, telling everyone they were spiked, every second person was spiked at one stage! lol

Luxxis

Permabear wrote: »

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In other words

You can ignore reality.
You cant ignore the consequences of reality

paw patrol

the sober paddy article shows that the lunatics have taken over.
every monkey with a typewriter now seems to believe they decide the rights and wrong of society and their work is Shakespeare.

It'll be a cold day in hell when I take morality lectures from a drug addict, I suggest he focus on himself and stop lecturing the rest of us.
99% of men are well capable of not raping or assaulting people without being moralised by fools like him with his stupid assumptions.

let him write a speil to larry murphy and see how he gets on.

ArthurDayne

The direction of the discussion towards the behaviour, attire or drinking habits of women is indicative of one of the major obstacles in getting society to a better place in addressing sexual violence. A sexual assault or rape is the result of a person (usually male) who, with a criminal and violent intent, subjects the victim (usually female) to the assault. It is the result of a perpetrator being willing to intentionally commit the crime. It is immaterial whether the victim is wearing a hijab or a bikini -- the sexual assault or rape is wholly the result of an inability and unwillingness on the man's part to stop himself from acting on a criminal intent to inflict these crimes on the female. It is sad therefore to see the discussion steer once again to the sideshow of a woman's conduct or attire rather than the more obvious problem of the sexual assailants themselves and all the mentalities and abnormalities which drive them.

Indeed, this thread of many thousands of comments, and the entire furore surrounding the trial, has been thoroughly depressing. It is a national conversation where an 'ibelieveher' movement has taken a rather regrettable absolutist stance in simply assuming that 3 men are rapists because an accuser says they are. It is a conversation where crude and disrespectful Whatsapp messages were unfairly equated with sexual criminality. It is also a conversation where many people seem unable to understand the concept that even if a rape does not take place, this does not invariably mean that the sex or all the sexual acts were consensual, and that a woman who perceives to have been subjected to a non-consensual sex act is not necessarily 'lying' about her perception of having been raped. The media need to take a long look at themselves in how they have turned this trial into one which has made a mockery of the presumption of innocence, but has also made a mockery of the need to ensure that a Complainant's claims are considered and dealt with sensitively, rather than being enthusiastically transposed into a national soap opera.

We need balance on the matter of sexual violence. We need an objective discussion which sets aside absolutist stances which conflate crude jokes with true misogyny or even propensity to commit sexual violence, and which also is more appreciative of the complexity of a rape claim -- in which even if no rape actually does occur, it does not mean that a complainant is lying that an act was non-consensual or that their perception that they were raped is not held honestly and in good faith. I fear that a significant section of our population, on all sides of the arguments and debates, is still some way off reaching a stage where a constructive and genuinely helpful conversation can be had. We continue to be subjected to daft placards, misguided protests and old-fashioned attitudes on how ladies should behave.

RabbleRouser2k

Game Face MCGee wrote: »

that was hilarious "epidemic" at the time, all these people getting mouldy drunk, ending up in A&E, telling everyone they were spiked, every second person was spiked at one stage! lol

Yeah, the taxi drivers had many a story to tell around then-women toxically drunk, tbh. So much so they couldn't recall a single detail about the night before.
There were cases where someone was spiked, but most were found to be just drinking.

But there were cases where people got spiked-I know a former housemate who's drink was spiked. Her friends brought her home (She was at a club, or house party or something), but her eyes were rolling back into her head and so on. She drinks, yes-but that wasn't drunk, it was definitely a spiking. Her friends stayed in her room that night, as she was pretty distressed. And we all know the differences between someone being hammered, and someone who's been spiked.

A friend told me of an incident where a co-worker had her drink spiked. Two non-Irish (not trying to paint anyone non-Irish as a villain, just telling how it happened) came over and started all the 'she's with us, we're taking her home' etc.

anthonyjmaher

backspin. wrote: »

Tsipras wrote: »

If they don't they're spineless cowards

The language they used alone about her would be enough to get many men sacked in this country these days. Plus the pressure that any sponsors of Ulster Rugby or Irish Rugby would come under if they take them back would be immense. Feminism has decided those guys are finished.

These were private conversations. If HR was to see half of the private texts and private messages that people say about their colleagues/bosses, then everybody would be fired.

freshpopcorn

anthonyjmaher wrote: »

These were private conversations. If HR was to see half of the private texts and private messages that people say about their colleagues/bosses, then everybody would be fired.

Lots of teachers, Gardai, doctors, managers, etc would all be screwed if there phones got analysed.

Faugheen

anthonyjmaher wrote: »

backspin. wrote: »

Tsipras wrote: »

If they don't they're spineless cowards

The language they used alone about her would be enough to get many men sacked in this country these days. Plus the pressure that any sponsors of Ulster Rugby or Irish Rugby would come under if they take them back would be immense. Feminism has decided those guys are finished.

These were private conversations. If HR was to see half of the private texts and private messages that people say about their colleagues/bosses, then everybody would be fired.

That's what happens when messages get out into the open.

Honestly don't know why the idea of those messages meaning to be private has anything to do with it. If I say something racist and/or misogynist, someone screengrabs it and sends it around, to the point where some clients and customers have heard about it. They might make my HR aware of it, and I won't have a leg to stand on.

If Jackson and Olding lose their jobs, that's on them.

I like the way people forget that a woman left their company bleeding and in hysterics too.