irishrebe wrote: » No, that's exactly right. And yet look at all the people who are up in arms about the idea of consent classes. The very same people who think starting to have sex with a sleeping person isn't rape.
Becks610 wrote: » I don’t understand this good character bit in any trial. Like take for example people who marry a murderer- they probably thought there partner was of good character and there has been numerous cases of people with good character committing serious offenses. The middle class comment is shocking- it shows everyone what they think of working class people.
Faugheen wrote: » Have you any opinion on someone performing a sex act on someone when they sleep? If you agree it's illegal, then you're after me for no reason. If you don't agree, then it's a sorry state of affairs.
FrancieBrady wrote: » We are talking about a situation where the partner initiates oral sex to wake someone up and they waken and enjoy it. Has a crime been committed?
The Talking Bread wrote: » Yes. The crime is comitted if someone is asleep and you engage in sex with a sleeping motionless body. YOU CANNOT LEGALLY GIVE CONSENT IF YOU ARE ASLEEP!! Pretty simple. You are asking for cases where someone woke up and didn't mind it happening to them............................obviously no cases exist because why would they bring criminal proceedings against the other party if they enjoy it. But there are plenty of cases where someone has been convicted for sexual assault, in one way or the other, some even involving their wife, in this country. You seem to be just looking for a bit of riff raff on this thread anyway so I don't know why I am trying to lecture you on a scenario where you could be convicted for sexual assault for an action you deem legal.
irishrebe wrote: » Whatever you think there, sweetheart. I'm not in disbelief, I unfortunately grew up in Ireland. My Canadian friends actually grew up somewhere where a woman recounting a rape or an assault wasn't immediately disbelieved and mocked.
FrancieBrady wrote: » The person WOKE UP and enjoyed it.
irishrebe wrote: » I'm sure they do. I'm pretty sure that also, a woman who mentioned that she was raped or assaulted is listened to and empathised with rather than people immediately assuming she's a liar. Nice use of feminazi, btw. True colours shown.
Flipper22 wrote: » Agree on the middle class thing- though it was only one of the lawyers and to be fair we don't know the context. Of course people who were previously of good character do commit offences. But less frequently than those who can be shown to not be of good character (when accounting for the difference in the size of these two groups, obviously ).To demonstrate by counterfactual: if any of these guys had previously been convicted of any violent or sexual offence, do you not agree that would be relevant?
Faugheen wrote: » But when they don't enjoy it, they can report you, because it's illegal. In fact, technically speaking they can report you either way. Someone could say they're enjoying it and go to the guards anyway. You're definitely just trolling now.
emeraldwinter wrote: » I will answer if you agree the law should be equal. And specifically legislated for and treated with the same as male of female. Currently the law is only one way male on male or male on female. Ofc digital penetration could be counted.
FrancieBrady wrote: » Normal people sort this out like normal people.
FrancieBrady wrote: » Which didn't happen in the original poster's story and doesn't happen in thousands and thousands of relationships, from 20 year old marriages to one night stands.Normal people sort this out like normal people. It is abnormal for a third party, who is not there, to try and impose a crime.
Allinall wrote: » You can’t “impose a crime”, whatever that is supposed to mean. A crime is committed, or not. It’s clear cut.
Flipper22 wrote: » Agree on the middle class thing- though it was only one of the lawyers and to be fair we don't know the context. Of course people who were previously of good character do commit offences. But less frequently than those who can be shown to not be of good character (when accounting for the difference in the size of these two groups, obviously ). To demonstrate by counterfactual: if any of these guys had previously been convicted of any violent or sexual offence, do you not agree that would be relevant?
irishman86 wrote: » irishrebe wrote: » Whatever you think there, sweetheart. I'm not in disbelief, I unfortunately grew up in Ireland. My Canadian friends actually grew up somewhere where a woman recounting a rape or an assault wasn't immediately disbelieved and mocked. Wow you are very narky, you realise everytime you comment with patronising bull**** like "sweetheart" you show everyone just how clueless you are Its funny ive canadian friends and they think nothing but good things about our country. I did live there and rape is the same in every country, same rates nearly to a percent, the reason is its hard to prove Ive spent enough time in Ireland to know you are just talking constant rubbish As for mocking, ive only mocked your warped view on irish men, neither of us know what happened outside of the jury finding them innocent which leads me to believe as i respect the law that it was consensual I do enjoy reading your posts though, as its funny watching someone resort to name calling when they realise how stupid there posts have been Casting even more doubt on your stories of world travel and education :pac:
The Talking Bread wrote: » The person engaged in a sexual act on a sleeping corpse. Sleeping body = no legal ability, never mind mindful ability to grant consent. Two scenarios.............1) The person wakes up, enjoys the situation, no big deal, (legally a crime, by definition, but no report of crime) 2) The person wakes up, freaks out and reports you.......also a crime but this time you are up in court. Simple. Simple as f*ck.
Faugheen wrote: » No, because it would be a different act. You can't consent to a sex act that is taking place while you are sleeping. That is a fact. Just because someone isn't in bed with you doesn't give you free reign to do as you please when you please.
Faugheen wrote: » The OP said it was fine to behave in this way just because he enjoys it, when it's not. And a third party wouldn't be trying to impose a crime. You're committing a crime by doing it in the first place. If you get charged and found guilty in court, it's your fault. End of.
emeraldwinter wrote: » No the crime is based on consent.... I have never woken from receiving manual or oral stimulation and then reported it as a crime. It's either yeah continue or no sorry I just want to go back to sleep. And as far as I know they would not actually be crimes as penetration never took place.
RuMan wrote: » Faugheen wrote: » The OP said it was fine to behave in this way just because he enjoys it, when it's not. And a third party wouldn't be trying to impose a crime. You're committing a crime by doing it in the first place. If you get charged and found guilty in court, it's your fault. End of. Seriously 2 people go to bed together ,one wakes up performs oral on the other who wakes up and tells other to stop. Iniatiater stops immediately yet is charged with sexual assault or "rape"? If you could point me to a conviction in those circumstances please
Mrsmum wrote: » As far as I know previous convictions can not be brought up. Which seems a bit mad that you can put forward good character but hide bad character which would actually probably be more relevant.
Faugheen wrote: » You left out half of the section by the way. See below. (6) In this section— ‘sexual act’ means— (a) an act consisting of— (i) sexual intercourse, or (ii) buggery, (b) an act described in section 3(1) or 4(1) of this Act, or(c) an act which if done without consent would constitute a sexual assault;
FrancieBrady wrote: » And normal people sort this out. Hence no court cases for initiating sex. Performing full sex on a sleeping woman is entirely different.
irishrebe wrote: » Sure, everyone loves Ireland when they visit. It's great on the surface. Why don't you invite them to this thread to have a read of this thread? Certainly changed some of my mates' outlook on the place, along with the fact it's 2018 and we're still debating whether rape victims are allowed to have an abortion.
irishrebe wrote: » And what if they don't wake up at all because they're a heavy sleeper? Is that morally OK to you?
RuMan wrote: » Seriously 2 people go to bed together ,one wakes up performs oral on the other who wakes up and tells other to stop. Iniatiater stops immediately yet is charged with sexual assault or "rape"? If you could point me to a conviction in those circumstances please
