Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: » You've never heard of nonverbal communication? You don't have to ask: if you can't tell whether or not the woman you're having sex is enjoying it or not by the act itself, you're not as good at it as you think you are.
FrancieBrady wrote: » Faugheen wrote: » Jesus. It's a crime when you do it in the first place. It's written. In Law. Stop ****ing lying. Also, stop referring to sex acts in a general sense. We are talking about when one person is asleep. That is not your business or anyone else's to make. If the law is an ass in other areas it is also one in this area, where a person wakes up enjoying what is happening. The absurdity of a third person assessing an intimate situation, laid bare.
Faugheen wrote: » Jesus. It's a crime when you do it in the first place. It's written. In Law. Stop ****ing lying. Also, stop referring to sex acts in a general sense. We are talking about when one person is asleep.
irishrebe wrote: » No more than anyone else's. Certainly no more than the defendents' stories. One of whom seemingly could not remember whether he'd even had sex with her or not.
Bananaleaf wrote: » Apologies if this has been covered already today - so many posts since I last checked in and I can't go through them all. Two things that disturb me from Justine McCarthy's article in the Sunday Times today (pg 7) "Olding's counsel Frank O'Donoghue said, there were "middle-class girls downstairs who would not tolerate rape" And "The judge advised (the jurors) to take the men's good character into consideration, and to remember that people of good character were less likely to commit a crime or lie in court" Well, if that's what was said and those sentences haven't been ripped out of context, then F me
emeraldwinter wrote: » Which legislators ?
RuMan wrote: » The booze, we've all been there.
FrancieBrady wrote: » Where are cases detailing the crime of waking somebody up who goes on to enjoy it?
Faugheen wrote: » If one commits a sex act while another is sleeping then it is sexual assault, because the other person hasn't given consent. If the person wakes up to that and tell you to stop, they can report that to the guards, and you admit you did it, then you are going to be convicted of sexual assault. There's no other way of spelling it out to you. If you are someone who does this (I'm going to assume you don't) then I would advise you to stop doing it before you get yourself in trouble.
irishrebe wrote: » So if you and your partner split up and you go on to have one night stands with other ladies, would you wake them up in the same way?
Faugheen wrote: » When the person is sleeping then there is no consent given, and it's not even debatable. That's what we're talking about here, keep up.
Flipper22 wrote: » I don't know how middle class or otherwise is supposed to be relevant. Strange comment which he should have retracted. Good character is often referenced in a trial. Rightly so, it is circumstantial evidence
Faugheen wrote: » The ones who decide the laws of the country. You know, like they have in this act: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2017/act/2/enacted/en/print#sec48 Which specifically says: (2) A person does not consent to a sexual act if— (b) he or she is asleep or unconscious. === Those ones.
GreeBo wrote: » Would consent not continue from the night before? Often that could be a couple of hours previously. We are then into dangerous territory imo.
emeraldwinter wrote: » I know the Irish law. This happened in the UK. ‘sexual act’ means—(a) an act consisting of— (i) sexual intercourse, or (ii) buggery, Should we not be getting this changed as it's inconsistant in relation to female on male ?
RuMan wrote: » There is a whole undercurrent of '" get the posh rugby lads" in parts of the media. Parts of this country really hate rugby and the class of people who follow it. Aodhan O'Riordan and Ruth Coppinger were virtue signalling to these people.
Faugheen wrote: » I'm not getting into this with you again, so you just go and sexually assault people while they sleep and see what happens when you do it to someone who doesn't like it. I tried to warn you.
irishrebe wrote: » There are going to be inconsistencies in pretty much any story anyone ever tells. That's the way humans work. Until we're all equipped with cameras in our eyes to record everything we do in some Black Mirror-esque dystopian future, people will need to accept that.
Faugheen wrote: » I'm not talking about this trial. So either read the thread and understand where this discussion came from or step away from the conversation like a good man.
FrancieBrady wrote: » It becomes a crime when he/she doesn't stop. As I said, most normal people work these things out, initiating and declining advances is a normal part of relationships even one night stands. Abnormal people cry crime, even if they were not there.
FrancieBrady wrote: » We sort it out like adults who consented to a night of sex. Happens every day and night of the week. And the courts are not clogged with cases of assault as a result as you so adequately proved by not finding a single case of somebody being done for initiating sex. And no, a case of somebody having sex with a person who is comatose or asleep through the entire act is not a similar situation at all.
The Talking Bread wrote: » That is where you are completely wrong. And apparently completely unwilling/thick/pretending not to understand If you are asleep and someone engages in a sexual act on you, it is a crime. (ie, against the law) l PLAIN and SIMPLE. They can report it or not, like all crimes. EDIT It seems you are on the wind up and sadly I have bitten I think.
Faugheen wrote: » Ah look, we have a rapist on the forum.
emeraldwinter wrote: » But this thread is about this trial. Have you any opinion on the Irish law being only on penetration ?
Faugheen wrote: » https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/sleep-rape-case-man-given-15-monthsentence-for-raping-girlfriend-while-she-slept-following-undue-leniency-appeal-34542277.html There's a case ^ And if someone is asleep they can not give consent. If you initiate a sex act when they are sleeping, that person has not consented. Stop.
Giving judgment, Mr Justice George Birmingham said the victim had woken to find herself covered in sperm with no knowledge of having engaged in any sexual activity
RuMan wrote: » Thats a bit much
FrancieBrady wrote: » irishrebe wrote: » So if you and your partner split up and you go on to have one night stands with other ladies, would you wake them up in the same way? I will initiate, and stop if my partner is not up for it. You guys are beginning to sound like the church who wanted to be the third party in bedrooms for years.
FrancieBrady wrote: » Entirely different to the scenario we are talking about. She didn't waken at all. Your are clutching at straws here.
RuMan wrote: » Faugheen wrote: » Ah look, we have a rapist on the forum. Thats a bit much
