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Belfast rape trial - all 4 found not guilty Mod Note post one

Sam Quentin

Strange.. I'm kinda relieved it's all over.

http://www.thejournal.ie/belfast-rape-trial-verdict-3928309-Mar2018/

Mod Note Keep this relevant to this thread and don't bring up others. ie the eighth amendment thread.

MOD NOTE By the way don't post anything from members on the jury that's appearing online.

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irishrebe

FrancieBrady wrote: »

irishrebe wrote: »

Eh.....no.

'Eh...no' ...What?

So any initiation from the guy or woman can be portrayed as 'assault'? Is this what you are saying?

It is seriously concerning that you are even asking this question. I would recommend educating yourself on consent and the law before you find yourself up on a rape charge.

FrancieBrady

irishrebe wrote: »

Imagine if a woman had made that statement. That any man who has made a sexual move (even if it was rejected) should be treated as a potential rapist who is so dangerous that it would be unwise to even enter an empty room to grab a bag you left behind there with things you needed to be able to get home. Imagine if a woman had posted that.

I just discussed it with my partner. And she said, no way would she re-enter a room where somebody tried to open her jeans like that.

Imagine indeed.

RuMan

Faugheen wrote: »

Yes, I would. And there have been cases before the courts as well.

Better report the wife

johnpatrick81

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I just discussed it with my partner. And she said, no way would she re-enter a room where somebody tried to open her jeans like that.

Imagine indeed.

Case closed so :rolleyes:

The Talking Bread

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You stop what you are doing.

If you persist, then it is assault.

What are you smoking!

It is actually even down in law that it is black and white that it is sexual assault! If you are asleep you have no ability to give consent!! The crux of sexual assault!!

The assault has already taken place, in legal terms before you wake up! Obviously if you wake up and enjoy it you are 99% not going to pursue it as a crime but performing a sexual act on someone while they are asleep is a f*cking crime! Because you can't give consent!

irishrebe

FrancieBrady wrote: »

irishrebe wrote: »

Imagine if a woman had made that statement. That any man who has made a sexual move (even if it was rejected) should be treated as a potential rapist who is so dangerous that it would be unwise to even enter an empty room to grab a bag you left behind there with things you needed to be able to get home. Imagine if a woman had posted that.

I just discussed it with my partner. And she said, no way would she re-enter a room where somebody tried to open her jeans like that.

Imagine indeed.

So you and your both partner think that all men are potential rapists who will use force if rejected. There's no other way to read what you are saying here. You think any man who gets a bit horny while kissing and makes a move should be treated as a danger. Do you really not see how grim that is? You think so little of men?

FrancieBrady

irishrebe wrote: »

It is seriously concerning that you are even asking this question. I would recommend educating yourself on consent and the law before you find yourself up on a rape charge.

So in your ideal world, two consenting adults spend the night and if one of them initiates a sex act, that is automatically assault even if the person enjoys it? (which is what the poster said)

We really have come to a full stop here.

Appledreams15

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

You've never heard of nonverbal communication?

You don't have to ask: if you can't tell whether or not the woman you're having sex is enjoying it or not by the act itself, you're not as good at it as you think you are.

And yet we have thousands of women marching, saying that they have been sexually assaulted.

Are you going to ignore them?

Mrsmum

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What did he do when he 'pounced on her'? Open her jeans?

She knew when she left what he was after. But yet she went back again.

You seem to really blame her for going back upstairs to get her bag. Are women supposed to think that every man who they have engaged in kissing with will not take no for an answer ? Let me tell you, usually we understand perfectly well what he is after but presume he will accept a no when we say no so we have no problem going into a room to collect our belongings.
Anyway did PJ not follow her into the bedroom or was he already there ??

drillyeye

Faugheen wrote: »

You were in a position to say no if you wanted to.

Someone who is asleep isn't in such a position

Lets get real here. Often times you'll wake up with someone and start fumbling around.

You could say that you "woke up to it". Theres a big difference between someone being completely and utterly unconscious, and I reckon that's what people mean (intuition!) when they say "woke up".

FrancieBrady

irishrebe wrote: »

So you and your both partner think that all men are potential rapists who will use force if rejected. There's no other way to read what you are saying here. You think any man who gets a bit horny while kissing and makes a move should be treated as a danger. Do you really not see how grim that is? You think so little of men?

Who said anything about 'potential rapists'.

The guy by opening her jeans clearly wanted sex, she claims she didn't. She went back into that situation, with him drunk and alone in his bedroom.

Most if not all women I know would not do that.

irishrebe

FrancieBrady wrote: »

irishrebe wrote: »

It is seriously concerning that you are even asking this question. I would recommend educating yourself on consent and the law before you find yourself up on a rape charge.

So in your ideal world, two consenting adults spend the night and if one of them initiates a sex act, that is automatically assault even if the person enjoys it? (which is what the poster said)

We really have come to a full stop here.

If one person performs a sex act on the other while they are asleep and unable to give consent, yes it is assault. I'm not sure why this is so confusing for you. You don't think starting to penetrate a sleeping or passed out drunk woman is rape?

Faugheen

FrancieBrady wrote: »

irishrebe wrote: »

It is seriously concerning that you are even asking this question. I would recommend educating yourself on consent and the law before you find yourself up on a rape charge.

So in your ideal world, two consenting adults spend the night and if one of them initiates a sex act, that is automatically assault even if the person enjoys it? (which is what the poster said)

We really have come to a full stop here.

If one commits a sex act while another is sleeping then it is sexual assault, because the other person hasn't given consent.

If the person wakes up to that and tell you to stop, they can report that to the guards, and you admit you did it, then you are going to be convicted of sexual assault.

There's no other way of spelling it out to you. If you are someone who does this (I'm going to assume you don't) then I would advise you to stop doing it before you get yourself in trouble.

RuMan

drillyeye wrote: »

Don't mind some of the people here! If they had their way you'd be carrying consent forms around with you, and a solicitor on speed dial.

They aren't normal, just a bizarre bubble of people that you'll rarely meet in real life. Thankfully, they advertise themselves a million miles away, so its easy to avoid them.

That's probably why they believe the things they do, normal people dodge them like they plague, so they end up surrounded by other nutters.

Its a safe bet that they also have serious relationship problems. Can you imagine being attached to someone who needs verbal communication when it comes to intimacy?

Someone made a good point above about non-verbal communication. But that apparently isn't legal enough or good enough for some! Yikes!

Ur probably write. Best to keep quiet when they come up with their nonsense. They have no idea of reality. I suspect almost all woman and most of the men I hung around with would be in jail if these people had their way.

Not sure if they are a new development or i just avoided these people.
Lets be honest most male and females in their teens / twenties go out to have a good time preferably involving good sex with the opposite or indeed same sex.
Apparently they expect us to bring a solicitor out with us now.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Appledreams15 wrote: »

And yet we have thousands of women marching, saying that they have been sexually assaulted.

Are you going to ignore them?

Think you might have replied to the wrong post there...? I never commented on the march or recommended ignoring anyone.

Outlaw Pete

kylith wrote: »

And it also lets their partner know that it is important to them that both parties are enjoying it, and gives them an opportunity to say if they are not into what’s going on.

The truth is that it would turn most (normal) women off to be asked for consent.

'Is this okay, is that okay, would it be okay if...'

Consent is something which is largely conveyed through body language. Always has been and always will be. The causalities of laws like that Icelandic one will be men that have done nothing wrong but have consensual sex and not made sure that they got a verbal bloody yes. Ridiculous nonsense but then it's not the only ridiculous law Iceland has. Place is notorious for them.

http://icelandreview.com/news/2010/03/24/legislation-bans-stripping-iceland

FrancieBrady

irishrebe wrote: »

If one person performs a sex act on the other while they are asleep and unable to give consent, yes it is assault. I'm not sure why this is so confusing for you. You don't think starting to penetrate a sleeping or passed out drunk woman is rape?

Jesus christ, will you read what they poster said. He WOKE up. He wasn't 'passed out' for the duration.

Appledreams15

Do men on here fully understand the depth of the impact of sexual assault?

As much as I hate to talk about it.

I was sexually assaulted at a party. I knew I had no recourse through the courts, and would be called a slut.

I attempted suicide afterwards. I Overdosed. My mother drove me into the hospital at night while I was struggling to breathe, she was saying "Please don't leave me".

She said to me afterwards she really thought I was going to die in the car, and had to decide whether to pull over in a layby and spend the last few minutes with me, or continue on to the hospital.

Time for this society to change.

Potatoeman

kylith wrote: »

IME some men have difficulty telling the difference between Oooo and Owwww, and that is the real mood killer; when you have to physically stop what’s happening to explain to someone that they’re hurting you because they can’t or won’t hear to what you’re verbalising. And that’s during consensual sex.

Sure, some but surely not even that many. I’d even say many women don’t like men that are so uncertain and unconfident in bed.

Il Fascista

irishrebe wrote: »

If one person performs a sex act on the other while they are asleep and unable to give consent, yes it is assault. I'm not sure why this is so confusing for you. You don't think starting to penetrate a sleeping or passed out drunk woman is rape?

Faugheen wrote: »

If one commits a sex act while another is sleeping then it is sexual assault, because the other person hasn't given consent.

If the person wakes up to that and tell you to stop, they can report that to the guards, and you admit you did it, then you are going to be convicted of sexual assault.

There's no other way of spelling it out to you. If you are someone who does this (I'm going to assume you don't) then I would advise you to stop doing it before you get yourself in trouble.

:pac:

FrancieBrady

Faugheen wrote: »

You can tell her to stop. If you're asleep, you're not in that position.

What part of this are you not getting?

What part of he WOKE up and enjoyed it are you not getting and proceeding to call it an assault whether or not.

irishrebe

FrancieBrady wrote: »

irishrebe wrote: »

So you and your both partner think that all men are potential rapists who will use force if rejected. There's no other way to read what you are saying here. You think any man who gets a bit horny while kissing and makes a move should be treated as a danger. Do you really not see how grim that is? You think so little of men?

Who said anything about 'potential rapists'.

The guy by opening her jeans clearly wanted sex, she claims she didn't. She went back into that situation, with him drunk and alone in his bedroom.

Most if not all women I know would not do that.

You. You are saying that if a man wants sex and the woman doesn't, she should consider him a danger to her (presumably, given the context, the danger involved here is a rape or assault). That is EXACTLY what you are saying.

drillyeye

RuMan wrote: »

Ur probably write. Best to keep quiet when they come up with their nonsense. They have no idea of reality. I suspect almost all woman and most of the men I hung around with would be in jail if these people had their way.

Not sure if they are a new development or i just avoided these people.
Lets be honest most male and females in their teens / twenties go out to have a good time preferably involving good sex with the opposite or indeed same sex.
Apparently they expect us to bring a solicitor out with us now.

Its the internet, man. Whereas before nutters self-isolated themselves, now they have the means to connect with other nutters.

Seeing as they are less likely to "exist" in real life, they spend more time on the internet than most. This gives the impression that there are loads of them, and that they might have some point.

The vast majority of people are normal, considerate and can tell the difference between right and wrong. Take the internet with a gigantic lump of salt!

Cyrus

johnpatrick81 wrote: »

It’s weird, I check in on the first day of the trial and a certain poster is vehemently challenging any post deemed suspicious that the lads were in the wrong. Fast forward 6 days and he’s still here, relentlessly defending the lads non stop

The lads found not guilty of rape ? Who is this headcase defending the innocent ?

Should he join up with the people marching in the wrong jurisdiction about a rape that didn't happen ?

irishrebe

FrancieBrady wrote: »

irishrebe wrote: »

If one person performs a sex act on the other while they are asleep and unable to give consent, yes it is assault. I'm not sure why this is so confusing for you. You don't think starting to penetrate a sleeping or passed out drunk woman is rape?

Jesus christ, will you read what they poster said. He WOKE up. He wasn't 'passed out' for the duration.

Duration doesn't matter. You do realise that there's not a 'bit of rape' don't you? The assault has already happened. If I take a hammer and start hitting you over the head with it, but stop when you tell me to after the first few blows, will you not report me to the Gardai?

FrancieBrady

irishrebe wrote: »

You. You are saying that if a man wants sex and the woman doesn't, she should consider him a danger to her (presumably, given the context, the danger involved here is a rape or assault). That is EXACTLY what you are saying.

No, she should consider that putting herself back in a situation where he is drunk and alone with her that he will possibly try again.

Faugheen

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Faugheen wrote: »

You can tell her to stop. If you're asleep, you're not in that position.

What part of this are you not getting?

What part of he WOKE up and enjoyed it are you not getting and proceeding to call it an assault whether or not.

As someone said earlier, if you woke up and enjoyed it you're not likely to report it.

Doesn't mean that committing a sex act on someone when they're asleep isn't sexual assault.

If you went down on a woman, and she woke up and didn't like it, you have already been performing a sex act on her without her consent.

If she reported this to the guards, and they brought you in for questioning. Would you admit you did it?

johnpatrick81

Cyrus wrote: »

The lads found not guilty of rape ? Who is this headcase defending the innocent ?

Should he join up with the people marching in the wrong jurisdiction about a rape that didn't happen ?

Or like, accept people see a highly clouded and ambiguous situation differently and stop spamming the thread with the same thing over and over and over

[Deleted User]

Jesus, anyone else here in a relationship since before all this nonsense in society started over the last few years, and is absolutely relieved because of it?

I know I'm glad I'm not going to end up going home with some of the people in this thread who'd have me thrown in prison for giving them a cuddle on a Sunday morning.

My girlfriend would have me up on assault for waking her up and asking her such a stupid question.. "Pssst.. Wake up.. May I cup your breast and be the big spoon, my dear?"

neonsofa

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

The truth is that it would turn most (normal) women off to be asked for consent.

'Is this okay, is that okay, would it be okay if...'
]

Without being graphic, there are plenty of dirty/exciting/fun ways to ask for explicit consent without meakly saying "is it ok if I...?"