Belfast rape trial - all 4 found not guilty Mod Note post one

irishrebe wrote: »

She went back to get her bag. Are you seriously saying she should have left the house without her phone, house keys and wallet? That if a man tries open your jeans during kissing, you should interpret him so much of a danger, that you'd leave a stranger's house in the middle of the night with no way to get home? You're doing a better job of demonising men here than any 'green haired feminist snowflake' could.

You could ask someone else to go get it. You could shout up to him to bring it down.

Would I go back into a threatening situation to get my phone...no, absolutely not.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You are deciding it is assault when he doesn't?

It's the very definition of sexual assault, though, just because he doesn't consider it to be assault doesn't mean that his interpretation can be applied to all.

Reverse the roles, you go down on a woman while she's sleeping.

Is that woman not being sexually assaulted?

kylith

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Because usually they're trying to ensure they're pleasing their partner, not consciously seeking that confirmation of consent remain in place....

Being realistic, most people don't seek continual verbal confirmation, mutual body language and a lick of common sense is usually enough.

And it also lets their partner know that it is important to them that both parties are enjoying it, and gives them an opportunity to say if they are not into what’s going on.

Potatoeman

kylith wrote: »

You’ve never heard of someone saying ‘Do you like that? Does that feel good?’ while having sex?

Sure but you can also tell by their moaning or verbalizing what they want themselves.

TerrorFirmer

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You are deciding it is assault when he doesn't?

I'd say it would be polarizing in terms of how it's interpreted by different people (putting aside the technicalities of it).

If I woke up to a one night stand doing that to me, I wouldn't consider it a grave assault, but I'd be extremely uncomfortable with it, and I would never consider doing it personally (even to a long term partner).

What's very interesting is that there's an algorithm question on dating site OKCupid that asks how you'd like a new partner to wake you up after your first sleep over.

The options are tea and toast, words, and oral sex. I was actually really surprised to discover the amount of women who chose the 'oral sex' option.

Faugheen wrote: »

It's the very definition of sexual assault, though, just because he doesn't consider it to be assault doesn't mean that his interpretation can be applied to all.

Reverse the roles, you go down on a woman while she's sleeping.

Is that woman not being sexually assaulted?

Not if she wakes up and enjoys it. Which is what the guy said he did. But you hysterically decided it was 'assault' whether or not.

Impossible and ridiculous imo.

RuMan wrote: »

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Are you seriously suggesting that if a woman went to bed with you but fell asleep and she woke up and you were performing some sort of sexual act on her while she was effectively unconscious, you think it is prudish that people don't think that is normal behaviour, never mind it being the most clear account of sexual assault you could suggest!

Just because she decided she freely went to bed with you initially?

I am far from a prude, in fact far from it, but that is a very disturbing line of logic, mate that could get you in trouble eventually

Ur probably right which is why i'm thankful i'm not 15 years younger. People trying to rewrite the laws of nature because they cant get any themselves.
Men love sex, women love sex all the consent classes in the world wont alter that

You're thankful you're not 15 years younger because having sex with a person who is sleeping or passed out drunk is considered rape?

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

I'd say it would be polarizing in terms of how it's interpreted by different people (putting aside the technicalities of it).

If I woke up to a one night stand doing that to me, I wouldn't consider it a grave assault, but I'd be extremely uncomfortable with it, and I would never consider doing it personally (even to a long term partner).

What's very interesting is that there's a algorithm question on dating site OKCupid that asks how you'd like a new partner to wake you up after your first sleep over.

The options are tea and toast, words, and oral sex. I was actually really surprised to discover the amount of women who chose the 'oral sex' option.

It's completely subjective as I said. That a third party insists that it is assault is where it gets ridiculous.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

irishrebe wrote: »

She went back to get her bag. Are you seriously saying she should have left the house without her phone, house keys and wallet? That if a man tries open your jeans during kissing, you should interpret him so much of a danger, that you'd leave a stranger's house in the middle of the night with no way to get home? You're doing a better job of demonising men here than any 'green haired feminist snowflake' could.

You could ask someone else to go get it. You could shout up to him to bring it down.

Would I go back into a threatening situation to get my phone...no, absolutely not.

Again, why is going into the bedroom of a man who was kissing you and opening your jeans to retrieve your bag a threatening situation? Can you honestly not see what you are implying here? It's incredible.

RuMan

irishrebe wrote: »

You're thankful you're not 15 years younger because having sex with a person who is sleeping or passed out drunk is considered rape?

Okie dokie . U tell urself that

Mrsmum

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You could ask someone else to go get it. You could shout up to him to bring it down.

Would I go back into a threatening situation to get my phone...no, absolutely not.

You're not getting it. There is no evidence that she didn't trust him when she went back up to get her bag. Nothing bad had happened up to then. It was when she was getting her bag that she claims he prounced so to speak and it was then it all kicked off.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Faugheen wrote: »

But you were.

A woman committed a sex act on you without your consent since you were sleeping.

That is sexual assault.

You are deciding it is assault when he doesn't?

You do realise that legal definitions of crimes don't depend on what random people think? Is this honestly news to you?

RuMan wrote: »

irishrebe wrote: »

You're thankful you're not 15 years younger because having sex with a person who is sleeping or passed out drunk is considered rape?

Okie dokie . U tell urself that

I'm not telling myself that. That's what it says.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Faugheen wrote: »

It's the very definition of sexual assault, though, just because he doesn't consider it to be assault doesn't mean that his interpretation can be applied to all.

Reverse the roles, you go down on a woman while she's sleeping.

Is that woman not being sexually assaulted?

Not if she wakes up and enjoys it. Which is what the guy said he did. But you hysterically decided it was 'assault' whether or not.

Impossible and ridiculous imo.

And if she wakes up and says no, you're already in trouble.

kylith

RuMan wrote: »

Ur probably right which is why i'm thankful i'm not 15 years younger. People trying to rewrite the laws of nature because they cant get any themselves.
Men love sex, women love sex all the consent classes in the world wont alter that

Oh my god, people teaching young people about consent and non verbal signs so that they can be aware of when someone feels pressured or uncomfortable, or comfortable, and everyone has a more enjoyable sex life. What a shower of bastards!

kylith

Potatoeman wrote: »

Sure but you can also tell by their moaning or verbalizing what they want themselves.

IME some men have difficulty telling the difference between Oooo and Owwww, and that is the real mood killer; when you have to physically stop what’s happening to explain to someone that they’re hurting you because they can’t or won’t hear to what you’re verbalising. And that’s during consensual sex.

The Talking Bread

RuMan wrote: »

Ur probably right which is why i'm thankful i'm not 15 years younger. People trying to rewrite the laws of nature because they cant get any themselves.
Men love sex, women love sex all the consent classes in the world wont alter that

So you are suggesting that it is only people who aren't as sexually active as you make out to be that would not find this scenario a bit messed up.

If you think people reacting negatively to a scenario when you are performing sexual acts on sleeping people or vice versa is a sign that they are prudish, you have a very strange mindset.

There are plenty of prudes on this thread, plenty of men haters, plenty who see sex as a means to an end rather than an enjoyable, experimental experience but I don't think you can call anyone a prude for calling you out on that scenario

Faugheen wrote: »

And if she wakes up and says no, you're already in trouble.

You stop what you are doing.

If you persist, then it is assault.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Faugheen wrote: »

And if she wakes up and says no, you're already in trouble.

You stop what you are doing.

If you persist, then it is assault.

Eh.....no.

[Deleted User]

Faugheen wrote: »

It's the very definition of sexual assault, though, just because he doesn't consider it to be assault doesn't mean that his interpretation can be applied to all.

Reverse the roles, you go down on a woman while she's sleeping.

Is that woman not being sexually assaulted?

Would you extend this to serious relationships / marriages?

irishrebe wrote: »

Again, why is going into the bedroom of a man who was kissing you and opening your jeans to retrieve your bag a threatening situation? Can you honestly not see what you are implying here? It's incredible.

What did he do when he 'pounced on her'? Open her jeans?

She knew when she left what he was after. But yet she went back again.

drillyeye

RuMan wrote: »

Okie dokie . U tell urself that

Don't mind some of the people here! If they had their way you'd be carrying consent forms around with you, and a solicitor on speed dial.

They aren't normal, just a bizarre bubble of people that you'll rarely meet in real life. Thankfully, they advertise themselves a million miles away, so its easy to avoid them.

That's probably why they believe the things they do, normal people dodge them like they plague, so they end up surrounded by other nutters.

Its a safe bet that they also have serious relationship problems. Can you imagine being attached to someone who needs verbal communication when it comes to intimacy?

Someone made a good point above about non-verbal communication. But that apparently isn't legal enough or good enough for some! Yikes!

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Faugheen wrote: »

And if she wakes up and says no, you're already in trouble.

You stop what you are doing.

If you persist, then it is assault.

No, you have already committed a sex act on someone without their consent.

You have already committed the assault.

Mrsmum wrote: »

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You could ask someone else to go get it. You could shout up to him to bring it down.

Would I go back into a threatening situation to get my phone...no, absolutely not.

You're not getting it. There is no evidence that she didn't trust him when she went back up to get her bag. Nothing bad had happened up to then. It was when she was getting her bag that she claims he prounced so to speak and it was then it all kicked off.

Imagine if a woman had made that statement. That any man who has made a sexual move (even if it was rejected) should be treated as a potential rapist who is so dangerous that it would be unwise to even enter an empty room to grab a bag you left behind there with things you needed to be able to get home. Imagine if a woman had posted that.

Deleted User wrote: »

Faugheen wrote: »

It's the very definition of sexual assault, though, just because he doesn't consider it to be assault doesn't mean that his interpretation can be applied to all.

Reverse the roles, you go down on a woman while she's sleeping.

Is that woman not being sexually assaulted?

Would you extend this to serious relationships / marriages?

Yes, I would. And there have been cases before the courts as well.

RuMan

Potatoeman wrote: »

Sure but you can also tell by their moaning or verbalizing what they want themselves.

Issue is people who never have sex cant know that so they try to impose their laws on us normal people.
Its pretty obvious if a man or woman wishes to have sex or not. Words arent needed.

irishrebe wrote: »

Eh.....no.

'Eh...no' ...What?

So any initiation from the guy or woman can be portrayed as 'assault'? Is this what you are saying?

RuMan

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You stop what you are doing.

If you persist, then it is assault.

Exactly. I woke up and could have chosen to tell the woman to stop. I didnt obviously and she continued.