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Belfast rape trial - all 4 found not guilty Mod Note post one

Sam Quentin

Strange.. I'm kinda relieved it's all over.

http://www.thejournal.ie/belfast-rape-trial-verdict-3928309-Mar2018/

Mod Note Keep this relevant to this thread and don't bring up others. ie the eighth amendment thread.

MOD NOTE By the way don't post anything from members on the jury that's appearing online.

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TheValeyard

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

I saw the tweet, it was a "I am holding a #ibelieveinsanta rally"
"I know very little about him and have seen little evidence about this existence, but I still believe in him because.."

Thinking he is an @sshole or deciding not to go to his hotel is one thing.

Having a journalist come in and tell guest he is "pro-rape" of the back of that tweet is another.
It is a tactic by crazy feminists, it makes people who join these rallies look like "crazy feminists" when things like this happen off the back of it.

Maybe he should try and get her fired for defamatory comments or even charged, calling someone "pro-rape" he might actually have a case.

If this happened to me and be definitely taking legal action. People like this need to be helped accountable for what they say. Statements like that can destroy lives!

irishrebe

givyjoe wrote: »

irishrebe wrote: »

You think women can't be misogynists?

So you think the catalyst (aka the 'victim')for the brain donors who are protesting, is mysoginist herself.?

Possibly. I don't know her personally.

torqtorq

LLMMLL wrote: »

You can identify famous rugby players from their torsos? Wow you're a superfan.

Obviously I am including their heads when I say upper torso.

Anyway, their heads are very much in view.

It is actually not that hard to get a copy of the video if you really want to.

For myself, I would be happy to never see it again.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

<SNIP>

I really hope you're not telling me you see those shows as accurate portrayals...?!

Why does a woman have to be "chaste" or a "slut"? Are you telling me you have the Madonna-Whore complex?

AS to the attitudes: if you repeatedly refer to women as "sluts" for having sex while thinking of yourself as a "legend" you'll look at best grossly immature and at worst massively mysogonistic. The fact that people do it all the time doesn't actually make it right: ask some girls you know how they'd feel if you started referring to them as such. Or better stiil, start referring to your mother/daughter/wife/girlfriend as such and see if they're open to the idea.(And if you come up with some excuse as to why this is a bad idea, it kind of proves my point...)

ShowMeTheCash

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

SJWs trying to swing things is a different issue.

I'm not condoning the pressure (most certainly not!) but I wouldn't want someone with that attitude selling my product or representing me. And that's nothing to do with media or social pressure: that's just me. And a lot of their sponsors will feel the same way even without the pressure.

People can read those messages and feel offended on their own.

Usually in these cases sponsorship gets pulled anyway and you might find it will happen at some stage.
Sponsorship usually is a marketing move and bad press for companies is usually enough for them to walk away Thierry Henry got dropped by gillette for his hand ball against Ireland (should of been jailed imo :P )

But I am talking about groups of people who actively try and make this happen and it happens a lot.

Flipper22

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

I really hope you're not telling me you see those shows as accurate portrayals...?!

Why does a woman have to be "chaste" or a "slut"? Are you telling me you have the Madonna-Whore complex?

AS to the attitudes: if you repeatedly refer to women as "sluts" for having sex while thinking of yourself as a "legend" you'll look at best grossly immature and at worst massively mysogonistic. The fact that people do it all the time doesn't actually make it right: ask some girls you know how they'd feel if you started referring to them as such. Or better stiil, start referring to your mother/daughter/wife/girlfriend as such and see if they're open to the idea.(And if you come up with some excuse as to why this is a bad idea, it kind of proves my point...)

Jackson did not make any such references or use those terms

irishrebe

<SNIP>
Isn't it strange how not a single one of my straight, white male friends feels oppressed and victimised by other groups gaining rights? How not one of them is wringing their hands about this case and making hyperbolic statements about how they'll never even approach a woman in a bar ever again in case they're accused of rape? How men will soon need a signature to prove consent every time they sleep with a woman? How consent classes imply that all men are rapists? Isn't it strange that only a minority of men think they're somehow being oppressed and silenced while women rule the roost?

Zonda999

https://www.independent.ie/sport/ewan-mackenna-on-belfast-rape-trial-uncomfortable-questions-raised-about-our-heroes-our-sportsmen-ourselves-36761345.html

And isn't non-guilty behaviour of sportsmen in bedrooms bringing their jobs into disrepute a tad arbitrary? In terms of their playing days here, most agree they need to be ended, but we don't know and cannot articulate why. That's not solid ground to stand on and end careers.

"Most agree" Oh, that's news to me, was there a referendum on this, I certainly don't remember this. This is the kind of journalism I despise. Presenting something completely unknown as an almost generally accepted fact. Trial by media and nothing less.

Creol1

NewbridgeIR wrote: »

The class divide is also playing a part in these protests. Many on the Irish Left despise the middle class and its associated elements: i.e. they hate rugby, "uncool" professions etc. So when one of their nemesis is found not guilty (or gets a light sentence), the Left goes into overdrive and attributes it to the privileges enjoyed by the accused. It's been like that for as long as I can remember. Underprivileged people with 100+ convictions getting light or suspended sentences are conveniently ignored.

I think the complainant was/is a medical student so would have formed part of the same broad social set. Rugby isn't exclusively a middle-class sport at all; that tends to be the perception in Dublin but in Limerick it would be a different matter.

Moreover, the only person in the anti-acquittal camp I can think of who brought class into it was Aodhan O Riordain, a former school principal and ex-TD of one of the most affluent constituencies in the State.

[Deleted User]

Thankfully justice is served out in the court of law, and not on social media. The amount of criminal experts giving their 2c the last few days is incredible.

[Deleted User]

Creol1 wrote: »

I think the complainant was/is a medical student so would have formed part of the same broad social set. Rugby isn't exclusively a middle-class sport at all; that tends to be the perception in Dublin but in Limerick it would be a different matter.

Moreover, the only person in the anti-acquittal camp I can think of who brought class into it was Aodhan O Riordain, a former school principal and ex-TD of one of the most affluent constituencies in the State.

John Connors and everybody who liked / re-tweeted it.
Also see plenty on my FB feed mentioning class privilege.
https://twitter.com/johnconnors1990/status/979158224522932226

Bob_Marley

NewbridgeIR wrote: »

John Connors and everybody who liked / re-tweeted it.
Also see plenty on my FB feed mentioning class privilege.
https://twitter.com/johnconnors1990/status/979158224522932226

Well it's nothing new that inverted snobs are just as bad as snobs. And for all their faults, there is no evidence that Jackson et al, and the Jury are snobs.

ShowMeTheCash

retro:electro wrote: »

Yep like I said I don’t agree at all with what Una did but a lot of the backlash he received was motivated by how he’s treated business’ in the past. He’s against “mob mentality” only when he’s on the receiving end of it. He’s all for it when he’s setting his fans on someone else.
Don’t agree at all with the level of hatred he’s getting but you can’t Tweet a crap joke from your business account and not expect to have your business affected by it. If you want to be a douche at least do it on your personal account.

I think you are missing the point.
I get he says things that are controversial, he was pointing out in his mind the stupidity of the protest in the frame of a joke.

If people get offended and do not go to his hotel so be it, I would agree with you that he is playing with fire by doing this from the business account.

But having someone actively go about trying to sabotage your business with defamatory comments inside your business is a step too far.

She has now become a "bad actor" for this protest, you have enough "bad actors" in any movement people will stop listening or think the movement is full of people that are "extremist".

Then you have the back lash to the back lash.
If she got fired tomorrow over the head of this or if people decided to boycott the Independent over her actions then she would be the first to cry abuse or claim she is now a victim but you cannot have it both ways.

I think people are just getting tired of the double standard....

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Flipper22 wrote: »

Jackson did not make any such references or use those terms

I wondered about that - would agree it would be unfair for him to be censured if that was the case.

<SNIP>

if they're not caste or slut, why bring up chaste?

Are you saying the messages you send are respectful towards women?

cloudatlas

Laois_Man wrote: »

cloudatlas wrote: »

Wow a hen party as an example, well that proves it and it's all fine.

He is good in bed, well that's a nice compliment good for him, thanks for sharing.

Yeah they're sluts when on a hen, but angels the rest of the time...I know!

And friends of a girl just magically guess that the fella the friend was with the night before was ace in bed.....Its not mouthed off about at all...I know that too!

That's why those films are so funny because of the role reversal do you still not get that ffs.

I don't know how they spoke about your friend, sounds like none of you found it distasteful at any rate. I don't like the idea of stag hen parties that involve getting so drunk you cheat on your partner.

LLMMLL

torqtorq wrote: »

Obviously I am including their heads when I say upper torso.

Anyway, their heads are very much in view.

It is actually not that hard to get a copy of the video if you really want to.

For myself, I would be happy to never see it again.

How can you see something again that you've never seen before? That doesn't even exist?

Flipper22

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

I wondered about that - would agree it would be unfair for him to be censured if that was the case.

Yeah

I keep saying it as it's very unfair the way some have tarred them all with the same brush based on these messages

irishrebe

<snip>
and then saying you don't feel oppressed? My male friends would certainly not say that society is against them and they have it harder than anyone else. Why would a few green haired saps, as you put it, make you feel so threatened and put upon? How many people attended these protests, out of the population of Ireland? And yet you're going on as if those protestors' views speak for the majority? It's truly bizarre to me that women reporting stories of harassment and even rape are being called liars, as if people honestly believe there is some sort of conspiracy against all men.

cloudatlas

anthonyjmaher wrote: »

I remember one night I had sex with a girl. We were both very drunk at a house party in her house, and she initiated a kiss. To be honest, I probably wouldn't have chanced initiating anything, as I would have thought that she would have considered herself a few pegs above me. We ended up in her bedroom and I stayed there overnight, after all the other guests had left. We live in a small enough community, and the girl was a teacher in the local school. I got a text from her the next day saying "this is not the sort of thing that I normally do, I was very drunk. I have a reputation to maintain".

It actually scared me a little bit when she asked to meet that evening. I was thinking - f**k me, I've done nothing wrong here, but the panic in her texts made me think that she could somehow accuse me of taking advantage to save her own reputation. Now I managed to meet up with her and reassure her, but this episode made me hugely aware of what a vulnerable position I was in.

So it's fine for these women's groups to say that "If I think it in my head that I don't want to have sex, then that should suffice, and this can be applied retrospectively if I should so choose" - but it leaves a lot of decent guys in a very vulnerable and ambiguous position.

Sorry you've made up a story about how you imagined that you'd get accused of rape or sexual assault and nothing of the sort happened you're getting a load of likes for it wtf?

torqtorq

LLMMLL wrote: »

How can you see something again that you've never seen before? That doesn't even exist?

I have already stated that not only have I seen the video - but all the participants are readily identifiable.

I understand that you have a job to do representing some sort of vested interest in this matter but your obfuscation is not going to wash.

Too many people have seen the video.

irishrebe

<SNIP>
You do realise that the entire concept of SATC revolved around subverting traditional gender roles?

ShowMeTheCash

cloudatlas wrote: »

Sorry you've made up a story about how you imagined that you'd get accused of rape or sexual assault and nothing of the sort happened you're getting a load of likes for it wtf?

I had a wtf moment when I heard there where protests in Dublin on a rape case that happened in the UK whereby after months of legal investigation a not guilty verdict was given.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

<SNIP>

The problem is women who are "top shaggers" are sluts - does this not strike you as inconsistant? Even being a "top shagger" is somethign to boast about? In any case, it's not these oens that get people up. It's the "any sluts get ****ed?" and "I love Belfast sluts" ones.

<SNIP>
I certainly wouldn't.

freshpopcorn

Could some of these people who are into the hashtag thing rule themselves out of serving on juries in the future?
I have one or two facebook friends who are into it and they were into it from the start and seem to believe it.
I know I wouldn't want them on a jury.

irishrebe

cloudatlas wrote: »

anthonyjmaher wrote: »

I remember one night I had sex with a girl. We were both very drunk at a house party in her house, and she initiated a kiss. To be honest, I probably wouldn't have chanced initiating anything, as I would have thought that she would have considered herself a few pegs above me. We ended up in her bedroom and I stayed there overnight, after all the other guests had left. We live in a small enough community, and the girl was a teacher in the local school. I got a text from her the next day saying "this is not the sort of thing that I normally do, I was very drunk. I have a reputation to maintain".

It actually scared me a little bit when she asked to meet that evening. I was thinking - f**k me, I've done nothing wrong here, but the panic in her texts made me think that she could somehow accuse me of taking advantage to save her own reputation. Now I managed to meet up with her and reassure her, but this episode made me hugely aware of what a vulnerable position I was in.

So it's fine for these women's groups to say that "If I think it in my head that I don't want to have sex, then that should suffice, and this can be applied retrospectively if I should so choose" - but it leaves a lot of decent guys in a very vulnerable and ambiguous position.

Sorry you've made up a story about how you imagined that you'd get accused of rape or sexual assault and nothing of the sort happened you're getting a load of likes for it wtf?

Exactly. Creates an imaginary scenario out of thin air and uses it to 'prove' that men are in a vulnerable position because women are liars who cry rape when they regret sexy times. Even though the woman in the story did no such thing. You couldn't make it up, could you? She could have just been worried he might gossip about it down the pub and it could have gotten back to the wrong person and caused problems for her. But no, let's assume she was out to get him.

RuMan

Pretty sad this constant desire to see onself as oppressed or a victim.
Ireland is a wealthy country and in historic and international terms men and women have fairly comfortable lives.
These serial protesters appear to have realised there is now good money in the victim game. My sense is they have little concern or interest in the truly vulnerable. Its usually dull middle class women with too much time on their hands whose main concern is growing their personal brand.
Most will end up marrying Nigel the rugby playing business man of course!
I used to get annoyed with their nonsense, now i find it easier just to smile politely and move on.

Outlaw Pete

https://twitter.com/goss_ie/status/980091063892414464

The Talking Bread

cloudatlas wrote: »

Sorry you've made up a story about how you imagined that you'd get accused of rape or sexual assault and nothing of the sort happened you're getting a load of likes for it wtf?

What is so unbelievable about that story??

The poster who claimed they spent their scholldays walking home everyday getting beeped at and wolf whistled every day since she was 11............... now that.............

pumpkin4life

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

https://twitter.com/goss_ie/status/980091063892414464

Motivator

<SNIP>I want to stand up and start a slow clap for this post.

Nail on the head.