wexie wrote: » irishrebe wrote: » What you're suggesting is almost worse. That the victim deserved to be talked about in that way because of her sexual behaviour? Where are you going with this point? He didn't even remotely suggest that. He just pointed out we only know they showed an abhorrent attitude to one woman in particular. Suggesting therefor they have the same attitude to ALL women is piss poor reasoning.
irishrebe wrote: » What you're suggesting is almost worse. That the victim deserved to be talked about in that way because of her sexual behaviour? Where are you going with this point?
Bob_Marley wrote: » There's no winners in the case, and the root cause yet again is the large quantities of alcohol taken by those involved.
The Talking Bread wrote: » irishrebe wrote: » Well, you go ahead and dismiss someone's lived experience with your second hand anecdotes. I grew up in Ireland and on my mile long walk home from school each day, I was beeped at repeatedly by grown men starting from the age of 11. They knew I was a child, I was wearing a school uniform. Sometimes they would put the window down and shout lewd comments. I'm living in Spain now and pretty much every time I go home to visit, I'll get some sort of moronic comment or beeping or wolf whistle on the street. You know how many times that has happened to me in Spain? Once. And the age of consent is 16, not 13. So it is ok for you and your outraged luvvies to generalise 3 million Irish men yet you pull up someone for refuting such an abhorrent and frankly dangerous claim. And, no, #IDontBelieve for a minute that you were constantly beeped at, whistled at etc coming home from school every day. Especially at 11 years of age. It may suit your agenda to claim this and you may pull out the "you weren't there " mantra but I would put my life on the line that this is a mistruth. If you can call someone a rapist, I can call you a liar. This irrational agenda seeking outrage desperation generalisation of men is disgusting. Get over yourself.
irishrebe wrote: » Well, you go ahead and dismiss someone's lived experience with your second hand anecdotes. I grew up in Ireland and on my mile long walk home from school each day, I was beeped at repeatedly by grown men starting from the age of 11. They knew I was a child, I was wearing a school uniform. Sometimes they would put the window down and shout lewd comments. I'm living in Spain now and pretty much every time I go home to visit, I'll get some sort of moronic comment or beeping or wolf whistle on the street. You know how many times that has happened to me in Spain? Once. And the age of consent is 16, not 13.
Laois_Man wrote: » irishrebe wrote: » They showed an abhorrent attitude towards one woman, he says, which doesn't mean they have this attitude to all women. So why would this one woman deserve to be spoken about in this way? What could possibly justify them making the comments they made? Maybe the point is that these men, rightly or wrongly, were of the opinion that this particular girl, was a tramp.
irishrebe wrote: » They showed an abhorrent attitude towards one woman, he says, which doesn't mean they have this attitude to all women. So why would this one woman deserve to be spoken about in this way? What could possibly justify them making the comments they made?
shesty wrote: » As for the rugby players in question, I think their careers are fairly over at this point.
irishrebe wrote: » But why is this even relevant? What difference does it make whether they use this language to describe their sisters and mothers or save it for 'sl*ts with loose vaginas'? Do you not agree it shows a worryingly misogynistic attitude?
irishrebe wrote: » Where am I generalising anyone? I'm saying what I experienced. Nowhere did I say ALL Irish men are like this. Feel free not to believe me, I don't give a f*ck. I'm used to men telling me what I did and didn't experience, despite the fact they weren't there. I would have thought all the videos of women being sexually harassed in the street while wearing hidden cameras would have helped more men to understand that this does happen and it happens often, but no, I'm sure someone like you would claim it was a set up, or the woman encouraged it, or some other pure sh1te.
The Talking Bread wrote: » The winners are Louise O'Neill and the rabid feminist following. The generalisation of men and vitriol being directed at us is dangerous mindset.
wexie wrote: » irishrebe wrote: » But why is this even relevant? What difference does it make whether they use this language to describe their sisters and mothers or save it for 'sl*ts with loose vaginas'? Do you not agree it shows a worryingly misogynistic attitude? Ah hang on now, I'm not defending their behaviour in any way. What I am doing is pointing out that just assuming because some men show a worrying attitude doesn't mean that all men have the same attitude. Can you not see that you saying : 'that guy is a douchebag therefor all guys are douchebags' is as bad and no more helpful than someone else reasoning 'that girl has questionable morals therefor all other girls must have questionable morals'? Do you really think that attitude is going to start a constructive debate that may eventually lead to something positive?
The Talking Bread wrote: » Paddy Jackson and his band of merry men don't reflect the vast vast vast majority of Irish men. Do they reflect your male relatives, your friends' partners, all your ex partners, work colleagues. Edit...........I am sure you will say they will, so pointless question
Laois_Man wrote: » Maybe the point is that these men, rightly or wrongly, were of the opinion that this particular girl, was a tramp.
irishrebe wrote: » That wasn't what you said though, was it? You said those particular lads might not have used that language about any woman, only that particular woman.
The Talking Bread wrote: » irishrebe wrote: » Where am I generalising anyone? I'm saying what I experienced. Nowhere did I say ALL Irish men are like this. Feel free not to believe me, I don't give a f*ck. I'm used to men telling me what I did and didn't experience, despite the fact they weren't there. I would have thought all the videos of women being sexually harassed in the street while wearing hidden cameras would have helped more men to understand that this does happen and it happens often, but no, I'm sure someone like you would claim it was a set up, or the woman encouraged it, or some other pure sh1te. Your whole spiel is based on generalisation. Are you that ignorant you don't even realise this?? Seriously????
irishrebe wrote: » I countered an anecdote from someone who heard from someone else that Spanish men treat women much worse than Irish men do with a first hand anecdote of my own, and you're accused me of generalising? When I literally wrote a few sentences about what I personally have experienced? Can you point out any part of that paragraph which generalises a group of people? I honestly think you must be having a laugh now, because this is almost parody. Man makes a comment about 'Spanish men' based on a second hand comment, and that's fine and dandy. Woman who has lived in both Ireland and Spain describes personal experience in each country and is called a liar and accused of making generalisations. This is comical, lads.
Flipper22 wrote: » What did Paddy Jackson personally say that people find so outrageous?
Mrsmum wrote: » There was no rape claim when they made their comments. From their pov they were after having a great night where they had sex & she had sex, they enjoyed themselves and according to them she enjoyed herself. Both parties had sex, yet they see her as a tramp and they are legends. Does show a sad double standard. Years ago the nuns used to tell us that in the minds of boys there were two types of girls - those who will and those who won't, those who will they will use and those who won't they will marry. I think maybe the nuns had PJ and his crew down to a tee.
P_1 wrote: » Have to say that Jacksons lawyers have massively screwed up with their "threats" to sue anyone using the #ibelieveher hashtag. Of course this could just be the (DOB owned) Belfast Telegraph playing up the controversy angle. Wouldn't be the first time they've done that.
Sofiztikated wrote: » irishrebe wrote: » But why is this even relevant? What difference does it make whether they use this language to describe their sisters and mothers or save it for 'sl*ts with loose vaginas'? Do you not agree it shows a worryingly misogynistic attitude? Noone is saying what they said was nice. I'm a good person. Big proponent of Repeal, got out and helped campaign in MarRef, yadda yadda. I've said some awful things in my past, especially in jest with my friends. Some I wouldn't repeat, because I know they were awful, and I'm ashamed. There's conversations between me and my wife that would make her look guilty if I was found dead in the morning. Taken as a snapshot of me, and judging my whole character on it? Then judging the whole of Ireland? Please.
