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Man convicted of hate crime because his dog did a Nazi salute?

Ultimate Seduction

What is going on at all. Becoming a bit of a cliche now but this really is 1984! Not 2018

Check out @BBCNews’;s Tweet: https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/976168035064086534?s=09

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[Deleted User]

facehugger99 wrote: »

People should be rightly appalled. We are but a small step away from people being accused of thought-crimes. It's very easy to go after the nazi dog owners, but who's next?

And now we all put so many thoughts out in a way that they can be mined and searched for the rest of our lives.

[Deleted User]

Baron de Charlus wrote: »

As was predicted in another thread yesterday:

Sigh

"Narrative".

Once again this thread shows the bull**** sides thing in full force. People have to see who's saying what and taking which bloody side. FFS it was a joke and anyone who can honestly say the law as it's being used isn't terrifying has their bloody head in the sand. The window of acceptable thought can move and it could be their currently pure thoughts that are unacceptable in a few years.

[Deleted User]

FCIM wrote:

Should there be a song and dance about it? No. He's just a d!ckhead who isn't worthy of anyone's attention, but the Far Right will try to make a martyr out of an absolute waste of sperm like they always do .

Really? You see this as a perfectly acceptable reaction to someone convicted of saying something you feel is distasteful?

The far right aren't making a martyr out of him. Honest and ordinary people are looking at this situation and genuinely are afraid of what kind of society the antifa brigade and their ilk have turned us into.

Yet you think this is a far right issue?

"A waste of sperm" could be deemed offensive and is actually much more of a hate crime than teaching a dog to do an action resembling a nazi salute.

Let's lock you up too.

20Cent

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Really? You see this as a perfectly acceptable reaction to someone convicted of saying something you feel is distasteful?

The far right aren't making a martyr out of him. Honest and ordinary people are looking at this situation and genuinely are afraid of what kind of society the antifa brigade and their ilk have turned us into.

Yet you think this is a far right issue?

"A waste of sperm" could be deemed offensive and is actually much more of a hate crime than teaching a dog to do an action resembling a nazi salute.

Let's lock you up too.

The UK have a Tory government it's right wingers doing this nothing to do with antifa.

jimgoose

Did someone Goering the Police??

ohnonotgmail

cantdecide wrote: »

'The joke was anti-NAZI, not anti-Semitic" - precisely.

"Gas the jews" isnt anti-semitic?

[Deleted User]

ohnonotgmail wrote:

"Gas the jews" isnt anti-semitic?

In the same way that shouting "Sinn Fein" and "IRA" during the Fields of Athenry isn't anti British. Its a joke. Stupid, but a joke.

[Deleted User]

20Cent wrote:

The UK have a Tory government it's right wingers doing this nothing to do with antifa.

I disagree. Its not political but societal

[Deleted User]

ohnonotgmail wrote:

"Gas the jews" isnt anti-semitic?

"I'll kill him for saying that"

Condoning murder?

topper75

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

And some people out there refuse to accept reincarnation as animals? .

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

Interesting I saw an article posted on the BBC Twitter that highlights how the Nazi's took a dim view to a Finnish dog that was trained to give a Nazi Salute

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-12139150

Humour has had to fight off many enemies over the years. But it'll never lose in the long run.

dav3

What's important to remember is that he was arrested, charged and convicted for using the term 'gas the jews' 23 times during a 2 minute video. He also blurts out 'jews' a couple of times for no reason. The video is almost the entirely made up of him saying 'gas the jews' over and over. At no stage does the dog give a nazi salute to the command 'gas the jews'. There are however a couple of instances where he says 'sieg heil' and the dog lifts his paw. That's it.

He stated during the trial that he likes offensive comedy. The first 3 words on his youtube channel are 'Offensive social commentary'. When you go out of your way to deliberately offend people you cannot then feign ignorance when people become offended. He clearly has the mind of a child, for that reason I don't believe he should have been tried as an adult.

Ultimate Seduction

If I'm walking down the street and there's a group of travellers walking towards me. I need to go shop across the way so I cross the road. The travellers think I crossed the road because I want to avoid them.

They can have me up for a hate crime according to the UK Met police. It's surreal.

Will I Am Not

Can comedy be hate speech? Whether you find him funny or not, it’s his brand of comedy.

Maxpfizer

FCIM wrote: »

"Gas the Jews". Anyone who thinks that's remotely funny or has sympathy with a clown who think it is and feels hard done by because he got caught wants their head examined.

Should there be a song and dance about it? No. He's just a d!ckhead who isn't worthy of anyone's attention, but the Far Right will try to make a martyr out of an absolute waste of sperm like they always do :rolleyes:.

Maybe I will be banging my head against a brick wall here but I am going to try to explain it and I hope that on some level you can take what I am saying on board.

I don't think that the video is particularly funny but that really shouldn't matter.

This guy made this video because his girlfriend has a dog and everyone is always going on about how cute the dog is. So he decided to turn the dog "into the least cute thing that I could think of, which is a Nazi".

So let's pause for a moment here and acknowledge that he wanted the dog to appear as the most awful thing imaginable in order to annoy his girlfriend. The joke wasn't directed towards Jews at all. The joke was directed at his girlfriend.

Are we good here?

Right, so the video goes viral. This is the next part you need to understand.

Police Scotland find out about the video BUT they haven't had any complaints about the video. This came out in court yesterday and if you care to read up about it you will see that Police Scotland actually had seek someone out to complain about the video.

You are right, the Far Right probably will use this guy as an example to promote their cause. That's on Police Scotland though. They could have taken a look at the video, realised that this was a silly joke aimed at his GF and not aimed at Jews and then moved on.

I don't particularly have sympathy for the guy. I don't know him. I think the video is offensive for sure but should it be illegal?

The issue here is that in Scotland today you can be arrested and be dragged through the courts for TWO YEARS before being convicted (sentencing will be in April) all over a joke.

Personally, I find your post to be grossly offensive. Be thankful that we don't live in Scotland or I'd be asking the police to charge you under the Communications Act 2003.

Ulysses Gaze

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

If I'm walking down the street and there's a group of travellers walking towards me. I need to go shop across the way so I cross the road. The travellers think I crossed the road because I want to avoid them.

They can have me up for a hate crime according to the UK Met police. It's surreal.

They have no problem wasting time and resources on investigating hate crimes and people that use harsh and colourful language online, yet they are not going to investigate crimes such as shoplifting, car crime and criminal damage to save money and resources.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/met-police-spending-cuts-400-million-funding-london-crimes-not-investigated-burglary-assault-a8002746.html

[Deleted User]

dav3 wrote:

What's important to remember is that he was arrested, charged and convicted for using the term 'gas the jews' 23 times during a 2 minute video. He also blurts out 'jews' a couple of times for no reason. The video is almost the entirely made up of him saying 'gas the jews' over and over. At no stage does the dog give a nazi salute to the command 'gas the jews'. There are however a couple of instances where he says 'sieg heil' and the dog lifts his paw. That's it.

So what? Does that, in your mind, deserve a criminal conviction?

Franz Von Peppercorn

FCIM wrote: »

"Gas the Jews". Anyone who thinks that's remotely funny or has sympathy with a clown who think it is and feels hard done by because he got caught wants their head examined.

Should there be a song and dance about it? No. He's just a d!ckhead who isn't worthy of anyone's attention, but the Far Right will try to make a martyr out of an absolute waste of sperm like they always do :rolleyes:.

Maybe it’s best to not create martyrs then.

As gervais said the last country to criminalise Nazi dogs was Nazi Germany.

Mrs Shuttleworth

The "worst case scenario" has been happening already. See below from The Spectator in 2016.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/08/what-happened-when-i-was-charged-with-a-hate-crime/

Maxpfizer

Will I Am Not wrote: »

Can comedy be hate speech? Whether you find him funny or not, it’s his brand of comedy.

In the UK the question is irrelevant.

Comedy CAN be hate speech. Yes. Any speech can be hate speech so long as someone is offended by it.

The thing people need to keep an eye on now is where and when these laws are being enforced.

Could I report a comedian I watched in Edinburgh for hate speech, sure. Would the police follow it up though?

I feel this guy was made an example of, for some reason, and that you are unlikely to see a flurry of arrests of comedians overnight.

It does set a precedent though and if, in the future, there is a need within the UK to mass silence opposition to one thing or another. The you've got the Communications Act tried and tested and ready to go.

Maybe it won't go down that way. Maybe. We'll find out.

fyfe79

Maxpfizer wrote: »

Maybe I will be banging my head against a brick wall here but I am going to try to explain it and I hope that on some level you can take what I am saying on board.

I don't think that the video is particularly funny but that really shouldn't matter.

This guy made this video because his girlfriend has a dog and everyone is always going on about how cute the dog is. So he decided to turn the dog "into the least cute thing that I could think of, which is a Nazi".

So let's pause for a moment here and acknowledge that he wanted the dog to appear as the most awful thing imaginable in order to annoy his girlfriend. The joke wasn't directed towards Jews at all. The joke was directed at his girlfriend.

Are we good here?

Right, so the video goes viral. This is the next part you need to understand.

Police Scotland find out about the video BUT they haven't had any complaints about the video. This came out in court yesterday and if you care to read up about it you will see that Police Scotland actually had seek someone out to complain about the video.

You are right, the Far Right probably will use this guy as an example to promote their cause. That's on Police Scotland though. They could have taken a look at the video, realised that this was a silly joke aimed at his GF and not aimed at Jews and then moved on.

I don't particularly have sympathy for the guy. I don't know him. I think the video is offensive for sure but should it be illegal?

The issue here is that in Scotland today you can be arrested and be dragged through the courts for TWO YEARS before being convicted (sentencing will be in April) all over a joke.

Personally, I find your post to be grossly offensive. Be thankful that we don't live in Scotland or I'd be asking the police to charge you under the Communications Act 2003.

Good post, in fairness. BUT.... such a missed opportunity for a clandestine thread-winning pun there!

Maxpfizer

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

They have no problem wasting time and resources on investigating hate crimes and people that use harsh and colourful language online, yet they are not going to investigate crimes such as shoplifting, car crime and criminal damage to save money and resources.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/met-police-spending-cuts-400-million-funding-london-crimes-not-investigated-burglary-assault-a8002746.html

It's not a waste of time or resources for them though, that's the thing.

Having a law about offensive communications and being able to test it and enforce it is incredibly useful for any government.

In this case with the dog the prosecution have successfully managed to get the judge to ignore the context of the "joke" and to convict a man for being "grossly offensive". If there is ever a need, they will now be able to do this on a large scale.

Look at the Spanish police in Catalunya last year. That was not a good look for them at all. The ability to prosecute and punish people for being offensive might have allowed them to do something in a less visible and less violent way.

Captain Obvious

ceadaoin. wrote: »

The part that I find worrying is this which was on the met police website until earlier

Sounds like a thought crime tbh! How could someone prove that their reasons for saying something which is not even considered a hate crime or offensive speech weren't really motivated by hate? And how could anyone possibly claim to know what someones motivations are?

Saying "Gas the jews" is probably considered a strong indicator.

Mark Henderson

Funny how they didn't arrest the red haired royal lad when he dressed up as a member of the Nazi party.

Chips Lovell

It's terrible, Joe. You can't shout "Gas the Jews" 23 times over.

Pepefrogok

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Saying "Gas the jews" is probably considered a strong indicator.

Context matter? What if it was made to look like a cute pug was saying it to a video back drop of a Hitler speech? Pretty funny, no? A crime? Or is this just football team politics? Your team got a goal against the evil right wingers.F.C so it's all good? You know this is not right. God this power yous are happy to hand out now will come back and bite all us on the ass.

Mrs Shuttleworth

Maxpfizer wrote: »

Could I report a comedian I watched in Edinburgh for hate speech, sure. Would the police follow it up though?

Happened already.

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/09/gazzas-21st-century-show-trial-worry-us/

Pepefrogok

Baron de Charlus wrote: »

It's terrible, Joe. You can't shout "Gas the Jews" 23 times over.

Have you read the context of it and still think it's the correct decision? Or have you just heard that he shouted gas the Jews and made your mind up, I literally can't believe anyone thinks this is right? Just the usual left wingers/liberals???

What if the dead terrorist puppet comes over here and says somthing not nice about the Jews? Arrest the man with his hand up it's arse? Everyone should be on the same side of this argument, if there has ever been a unjust abuse of power to unite the people it's this, drop the your team got one over the other mentality here ffs

Maxpfizer

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Saying "Gas the jews" is probably considered a strong indicator.

It probably is but there has to be some level of thought put into how such things are dealt with.

The guy was dragged through court for 2 years over all this. Multiple court appearances.

He said something bad, definitely, and when they words are removed from context it looks even worse.

Is that an honest thing to do though, to remove the words from their context?

Is it a morally good thing to remove the words from their context and then burden this guy with a criminal conviction and potential prison time based on the decontextualised phrase?

Obviously it's largely irrelevant for us in real terms but in the spirit of a fair discussion do you really think what happened to this guy is justified?

dav3

Pepefrogok wrote: »

God this power yous are happy to hand out now will come back and bite all us on the ass.

Who are "yous"? Are you referring to the conservative party and the people who voted them into power?

I'm not sure what relevance that has on an Irish forum.

Maxpfizer

Mrs Shuttleworth wrote: »

Happened already.

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/09/gazzas-21st-century-show-trial-worry-us/

That also seems a bit ridiculous. I wasn't aware of this one at all. I'm not even sure if what Gazza said is really THAT bad. Bad enough to be admonished by the crowd or by friends in a "FFS Gazza you can't be saying racist sh*t like that" way but surely not bad enough for a criminal conviction and a crime.

He wasn't being hateful just maybe a bit stupid.