david75 wrote: » Like it can suck it’s thumb and kick out at Mother’s belly? It can do none of these things.
david75 wrote: » Ps pretty sure it was you posting those videos and making that argument.
end of the road wrote: » i posted no such videos. you are mixing me up with another poster dav. a fetus does have a nervous system after a certain time, so it can feel pain.
david75 wrote: » You are hilarious. Not that long ago you were posting videos of the foetus’ ‘silent scream’. To feel pain or scream a brain and nervous system is required. A foetus has neither. So now you’re switching positions again???? You’re in the wind EOTR
end of the road wrote: » irrelevant. they are unborn human beings. sentience is irrelevant and is a non-argument seeing as we don't base rights on it. seeing as you support the availability of abortion on demand, then you have an obligation to stand over it and admit and except the reality of what it involves and what it is
david75 wrote: » A zygote and a foetus are neither sentient nor sapient. They have no awareness nor ability to form awareness. They are not babies and it’s completely false and incorrect to suggest they are Industrial killing? Hysterical much??
Katie Full Leak wrote: » You speak of the pro life groupings as though they are an homogeneous group and that they represent everyone who feels this way. They are not and so not. A prime time program last week suggested most of the pro life groups took no foreign money. I can't speak for those who didn't reply and I can't speak for the RCC as I'm not part of that or any other organization.Considering the pro repeal are already talking of another vote to get the right result , I would say they are!
Graces7 wrote: » Please add the correct word "human" to each of your terms? They are human. And science cannot prove their awareness etc . Also there was no embryologist at the Citizens Assembly hearings.
david75 wrote: » Please explain lumping things together? Are you saying they haven’t engaged that company? Are you suggesting the pro life campaign and Iona aren’t being flooded with foreign donations? Not to mention the outside interference from the Catholic Church?? And who is considering defeat? Haven’t seen that on either side tbh
Katie Full Leak wrote: » Delerium. It's not a case of a change of mind at some future date, after all we've seen that happen in several debates over the years. It's looks very much like being told the answer was wrong. Vote the right way next time. Interesting that the repeal side are already considering a possible defeat:)
volchitsa wrote: » So you're saying people do have choice in Ireland because they can go to the UK? And you portray that a good thing. So what is wrong with them having that choice in Ireland?
Katie Full Leak wrote: » You really like lumping everyone together , don't you? It's not like amnesty have broken any rules or anything like taking foreign money which is nothing but a foreign individual seeking to influence a national debate. Delerium. It's not a case of a change of mind at some future date, after all we've seen that happen in several debates over the years. It's looks very much like being told the answer was wrong. Vote the right way next time. Interesting that the repeal side are already considering a possible defeat:)
david75 wrote: » Interesting to see us talking about democracy when the pro life campaign have hired the same company that hijacked the democratic process both in brexit and the US election.
Katie Full Leak wrote: » I can't speak for all pro life groups so If it's passed, in my view it's passed. I mightn't like it but the people will have spoken. Looking for the so called right decision in a second vote by either group is trying to tell the people you don't know what you really want.....try again. Brings me back to the Nice treaty..or was it Lisbon? We need to be grown up and respect the wishes of the majority. That's how a democracy works.
Delirium wrote: » How is it undemocratic to continue to campaign for repeal if the vote is no in the referendum? I would presume that many pro-life people won't abandon what they see as their moral responsibility to protect the unborn if repeal happens. Personally, I would see it as a part of a democracy to campaign for the changes you want in your country, even if one vote doesn't go your way.
Katie Full Leak wrote: » So Regina Doherty was ignorant and is now pro abortion.She is also putting out the idea of a second referendum if the "correct" result isn't given.. Now where have I seen that before? Smacks of desperation to me.what happened to democracy?https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/repeal-campaigners-will-not-accept-a-no-vote-says-minister-1.3430112%3fmode=amp
Graces7 wrote: » "Thou shalt not kill" is pretty simple
Graces7 wrote: » Please define "Christian". No we do not have the freedom in any branch of Christianity to disobey the commandments . "Thou shalt not kill" is pretty simple And from the beginnings of Christianity, abortion is specifically forbidden very clearly.
Graces7 wrote: » Replied to you on the other thread; a tirade that has no foundation in the real love so many parents give freely and without the self pity you write here. Parents who cherish their child. Selfless love. After all, they could have one to the UK.... They chose freely and in love to keep that damaged, beautiful child.
pilly wrote: » 1. This is about Christians apparently, not Catholics. 2. Nobody's asking you to have an abortion so that's that problem solved. You won't have to kill anyone.
david75 wrote: » EOTR you are both a hypocrite and the worst kind of fool. From another thread. This morning I got thinking about all this debate. I thought about the few people I know who had diagnosed FFA pregnancies and who choose to carry to term. One couple has a child now with significant & severe special needs. Another got a few precious days with their baby. Others were born sleeping. In all of those cases, the couples involved got amazing care from hospital staff, or from organisations such as Feilecain. Other professionals in their fields have donated their time or their skills to try to give a couple reeling during incredibly painful time some lasting memories. There were photographers giving them precious photos, seamstresses and knitters making delicate beautiful gowns for their babies to give you just a couple of examples of what folk do for newly bereaved parents. Down the line, I've seen the difficulty with the actual reality of having a disabled child who survived from a FFA diagnosis. The endless appointments, therapies and hospital stays far away from home. Waiting on multiple waiting lists. Home help. Respite care. Home nursing. Wheelchair ramps. Adaptable cars. Hoists, adult nappies, adaptation of homes and furniture to accommodate a disabled growing child. There are various organisations, charities and HSE outpatient supports that help parents with some of this but it's still a daily struggle. But I wondered where LoveBoth were in all of that? In the beginning to support people going through that pregnancy? Afterwards when the baby was born? Not once did I ever hear, out of all of the organisations that supported my friends, that the service or assistance the parents of a special needs baby was provided by LoveBoth. Not so much as a baby hat. I wondered what they actually do for the babies they love so much. Maybe they provide bereavement counselling I thought. Or helped with funeral costs? Or maybe they offer a NICU nurse support so they could briefly bring their baby home for a few days? I was sure that they offer some sort of help...because they love both, right? So I googled to check. And they don't appear to provide a thing. Not a single link to a support or a service for a crisis pregnancy, rape, FFA, or post-natal supports. Absolutely nothing. Love Both my arse.
pilly wrote: » I've said it before and I'll say it again. The answer to the question that is the title of the thread is YES, a christian CAN vote to repeal the 8th if they want. That's a fact so I wish people would stop telling lies. A christian can vote whatever way they like in this referendum or not vote at all because we're not members of a cult thankfully. We have free choice.
david75 wrote: » EOTR you are both a hypocrite and the worst kind of fool.
david75 wrote: » From another thread. This morning I got thinking about all this debate. I thought about the few people I know who had diagnosed FFA pregnancies and who choose to carry to term. One couple has a child now with significant & severe special needs. Another got a few precious days with their baby. Others were born sleeping. In all of those cases, the couples involved got amazing care from hospital staff, or from organisations such as Feilecain. Other professionals in their fields have donated their time or their skills to try to give a couple reeling during incredibly painful time some lasting memories. There were photographers giving them precious photos, seamstresses and knitters making delicate beautiful gowns for their babies to give you just a couple of examples of what folk do for newly bereaved parents. Down the line, I've seen the difficulty with the actual reality of having a disabled child who survived from a FFA diagnosis. The endless appointments, therapies and hospital stays far away from home. Waiting on multiple waiting lists. Home help. Respite care. Home nursing. Wheelchair ramps. Adaptable cars. Hoists, adult nappies, adaptation of homes and furniture to accommodate a disabled growing child. There are various organisations, charities and HSE outpatient supports that help parents with some of this but it's still a daily struggle. But I wondered where LoveBoth were in all of that? In the beginning to support people going through that pregnancy? Afterwards when the baby was born? Not once did I ever hear, out of all of the organisations that supported my friends, that the service or assistance the parents of a special needs baby was provided by LoveBoth. Not so much as a baby hat. I wondered what they actually do for the babies they love so much. Maybe they provide bereavement counselling I thought. Or helped with funeral costs? Or maybe they offer a NICU nurse support so they could briefly bring their baby home for a few days? I was sure that they offer some sort of help...because they love both, right? So I googled to check. And they don't appear to provide a thing. Not a single link to a support or a service for a crisis pregnancy, rape, FFA, or post-natal supports. Absolutely nothing. Love Both my arse.
pilly wrote: » For some reason even though I have you on ignore your posts still show up on my phone so I'd appreciate it if you'd discontinue quoting me because I'm not conversing any longer with your lunacy.
end of the road wrote: except it's not problem solved as people will be able to kill human beings just because they are inconvenient.
