Edward M wrote: » I'm not the worlds best dad, but I have tried to be the best dad I was or am capable of being, if that doesent meet your approval or high standards so be it.
Presage wrote: » It does differ, the mother had no choice in the matter much like the unborn child has no choice in the matter when it comes to rape.
In the case of consensual sex the mother had a choice in the matter and should be aware that there is a risk of becoming pregnant when having sex. Morality is not simply black and white, it is often a quite complex equation where the balance can be tipped by some minor changes to the assumptions.
Presage wrote: » Nope, the entire equation needs to be considered, it's not balck and white.
nozzferrahhtoo wrote: » As I said in the opening of my post, my standards I only apply to myself. The parenting of others neither needs to meet it, nor do I ever apply one to the other generally. I just know I would feel dirty in myself if I ever contrived to manipulate such serious life choices in my children. Especially by offering things that I feel I should be offering as a parent anyway, in the form of compulsions, incentives and manipulation. I think I just prefer the dynamic of "These are the things you can expect from me always as a parent, pleasure ensure you factor them into whatever choice you decide to make" over "If you would only make these choices, then here are the things I can offer you as an incentive to do so". Foah, just shivered again. I do not often feel this much revulsion at envisioning alternative versions of myself. But the thought of operating that dynamic in a relationship with my children is exactly that. Repulsive.
Edward M wrote: » No I'm not really. Our first grandchild is due next month BTW. I know full well abortion covers all ages and reasons.
Edward M wrote: » I have manipulated them all my life, especially when they were younger, to do what I thought was in their best interests, re education particularly.
Edward M wrote: » You' feel dirty manipulating your children and shudder at the thought, don't make me laugh
JDD wrote: » Well, then in the case where it is not a matter of financial concern, nor is there realistically a prospect of her handing over a child to you to raise, what would you do? Supposing she asked you to mind her children while she travelled with her husband to the UK for a termination? Maybe she wouldn’t ask you knowing your views, so she travels on her own, having to stay the night in a local hotel suffering intense cramps and bleeding on her own. She wouldn’t want to leave her children for longer than she had to, so she continues to have cramps and bleeding while she gets a taxi to the airport, and on the airplane. Or she decides to order pills over the internet, all the while worrying that if she suffers from any side effects and goes to A&E will they call the guards. Do you think it would be an acceptable situation for your daughter to be faced with?[unrelated, Firstly, I would think and hope that my daughters know they can talk to me about anything, they would know also that my help would be available in all situations now. Another point, unrelated in a way, but an experience I could have had but thankfully never did, others have had it though. If my daughters had become pregnant at an early age, under 18 say or much younger even, and abortion had been considered as her option, would or should that give me or her mother the right to choose for her as her legal guardians? If she wasn't fully developed and we felt that this would harm her physically let alone mentally. What if she wanted the abortion and we didn't? So many valid questions to be asked and answered here, there can't be the same answer to them all for every eventual outcome, so on that and other issues I reckon that an abortion service has to be available really, it is the only humanitarian solution really.
Gintonious wrote: » So not is Noel Pattern not a nurse, he is also a gobshíte.
Edward M wrote: » I don't know your age, nor how long you are a parent. I do know from experience the first thing a child learns is how to manipulate their parents. I also know from my own experience that one of the first things I learned was how to manipulate my children, firstly to just get a bit of peace and quiet for myself and my partner or wife. I have manipulated them all my life, especially when they were younger, to do what I thought was in their best interests, re education particularly. I never stooped so low as making or forcing any lifestyle decisions on them, I showed them choices, I offered them assistance at every turn. Did I manipulate them, yes, as their guardian I did offer them things for certain that I thought might help them make decisions that I thought were for their better good. When they became adults I stepped back and let them make their own decisions on any matter they liked, if I didn't like it I told them so and why, like for instance I told my son if he quit college one time that he would have to either get a job or live on what social welfare was available to him, no financial help from me. He stayed on, got his degree and is working full time now, I borrowed from the credit union to buy his first car as a reward. You' feel dirty manipulating your children and shudder at the thought, don't make me laugh, If there is a parent alive who hasn't manipulated a child I'd like to meet them.
Sierra Eire wrote: » A simple Google search will agree with me. The majority of abortions are performed on unborn girls because the mothers wanted boys instead. This is a well known trend. I can't provide a link to proof because I don't have enough posts to.
kylith wrote: » So we’re back to ‘people should only have sex if they’re prepared to have a baby’.
Sofiztikated wrote: » And lads, it's not like adoption is a bunch of ****ing roses either. There were, what, 16(?) last year, and so much for the Married Gheys adopting all the babbies. It's a long, hard, ****ty process, we don't exactly have a stellar history (to this very day) of looking after children IN care, and you want to dump a load more into care? Please tell me how that's in anyway way kinder than ending a pregnancy before it has a chance to feel pain?
Gintonious wrote: » So not is Noel Pattern not a nurse, he is also a gobsh.
Howard Tasteless Bank wrote: » I wonder, the crowd here who reckon "status quo is fine, travelling to England is fine", have ye considered the rather large Brexit shaped hole about to appear in the status quo? If ye voted no, repeal was defeated and from next year on people had to go considerably further afield, would ye be comfortable with your vote?
Neyite wrote: » This morning I got thinking about all this debate. I thought about the few people I know who had diagnosed FFA pregnancies and who choose to carry to term. One couple has a child now with significant & severe special needs. Another got a few precious days with their baby. Others were born sleeping. In all of those cases, the couples involved got amazing care from hospital staff, or from organisations such as Feilecain. Other professionals in their fields have donated their time or their skills to try to give a couple reeling during incredibly painful time some lasting memories. There were photographers giving them precious photos, seamstresses and knitters making delicate beautiful gowns for their babies to give you just a couple of examples of what folk do for newly bereaved parents. Down the line, I've seen the difficulty with the actual reality of having a disabled child who survived from a FFA diagnosis. The endless appointments, therapies and hospital stays far away from home. Waiting on multiple waiting lists. Home help. Respite care. Home nursing. Wheelchair ramps. Adaptable cars. Hoists, adult nappies, adaptation of homes and furniture to accommodate a disabled growing child. There are various organisations, charities and HSE outpatient supports that help parents with some of this but it's still a daily struggle. But I wondered where LoveBoth were in all of that? In the beginning to support people going through that pregnancy? Afterwards when the baby was born? Not once did I ever hear, out of all of the organisations that supported my friends, that the service or assistance the parents of a special needs baby was provided by LoveBoth. Not so much as a baby hat. I wondered what they actually do for the babies they love so much. Maybe they provide bereavement counselling I thought. Or helped with funeral costs? Or maybe they offer a NICU nurse support so they could briefly bring their baby home for a few days? I was sure that they offer some sort of help...because they love both, right? So I googled to check. And they don't appear to provide a thing. Not a single link to a support or a service for a crisis pregnancy, rape, FFA, or post-natal supports. Absolutely nothing. Love Both my arse.
Firstly, I would think and hope that my daughters know they can talk to me about anything, they would know also that my help would be available in all situations now. Another point, unrelated in a way, but an experience I could have had but thankfully never did, others have had it though. If my daughters had become pregnant at an early age, under 18 say or much younger even, and abortion had been considered as her option, would or should that give me or her mother the right to choose for her as her legal guardians? If she wasn't fully developed and we felt that this would harm her physically let alone mentally. What if she wanted the abortion and we didn't? So many valid questions to be asked and answered here, there can't be the same answer to them all for every eventual outcome, so on that and other issues I reckon that an abortion service has to be available really, it is the only humanitarian solution really.
JDD wrote: » You know, you sound like a great Dad and I'm sure you daughters probably would come to you for help or support, even if they did know that your beliefs were different to theirs. It's a difficult question regarding a pregnancy that occurs in a young teenager, whether a parent would have the choice to have the pregnancy terminated or indeed whether their permission would be needed before the pill was prescribed. Perhaps doctors could given some guidance on assessing whether an individual child has the necessary capacity/maturity to consent or refuse medical treatment. I believe they have some similar guidelines regarding the prescription of contraceptives.
Presage wrote: » There are multiple factors to consider when attempting to discern the correct moral decision to take. For example by your simplistic logic it should be perfectly legal to abort at 30 weeks or to make it legal to stage gladiatoral contests to the death once all particpants make the choice to participate.
