Irish Language Act in the North: Have Sinn Fein scored a major own goal?

FrancieBrady wrote: »

How do you know it was the last words anybody heard?

On the laws of probability, based on a few survivors memories from countless PIRA attacks during the troubles.

recedite

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It means 'Our day will come'. As dangerous or innocuous as you want it to be.

So take offence if you want to. ML clarified to adamantly say that none was intended.

That is known as an unpology

"The facade of an apology created by uttering obligatory words of remorse devoid of actual regret, contrition, or even an admission of guilt."
("When saying you're sorry is unavoidable, the unpology is a Republican's best friend!")

Not sure who put the Republican reference in there, but it wasn't me.
I won't argue with it though

recedite

charlie14 wrote: »

True, and I may be incorrect here, but the one person with the most to lose in all of this is Arlene Foster. Who with Direct Rule would be the ultimate turkey that voted for Christmas.

As I said I may be incorrect, but is it not a stipulation that the leader of the DUP must be an elected representative?
If so, then with Stormont dissolved and her not being a Westminster MP, she would no longer be in a position to lead the DUP.

Nope. They would all still be MPs.
More so than SF in some ways, because at least they would still be attending the relevant parliament.

cycle4fun wrote: »

For some unfortunate people, it was the last words they ever heard. So not appropriate for the leader of a political party to end her speech with. I knew then that was the end of a possible deal the following week. How right I was proved.

How do you know it was the last words anybody heard? Have you a hotline to the after world here or just being typically sensationalist?

cycle4fun wrote: »

I could not care less how it is spelt, any more than the spelling of a slogan the 9/11 attackers may have used during their attacks.

It means 'Our day will come'. As dangerous or innocuous as you want it to be.

So take offence if you want to. ML clarified to adamantly say that none was intended.

Professor Moriarty

cycle4fun wrote: »

I could not care less how it is spelt, any more than the spelling of a slogan the 9/11 attackers may have used during their attacks.

Yes, that was obvious. Personally, if I'm going to use a language other than English, I make a point of trying to spell the words properly. It's a matter of respecting other nationalities, their language and their culture. But that's just me.

charlie14 wrote: »

So ?
Are you saying that is the first time Foster heard anyone from SF use that slogan

For some unfortunate people, it was the last words they ever heard. So not appropriate for the leader of a political party to end her speech with. I knew then that was the end of a possible deal the following week. How right I was proved.

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Actually, it's 'Tiocfaidh ár lá'. Did you not know that?

I could not care less how it is spelt, any more than the spelling of a slogan the 9/11 attackers may have used during their attacks.

cycle4fun wrote: »

She used the battle cry of the PIRA "Up the rebels, tiocagh an la ".

So ?
Are you saying that is the first time Foster heard anyone from SF use that slogan and that is the reason you believe for her back out of the deal ?

cycle4fun wrote: »

Many of the 10 MP's lost friends and families to people who shouted "Up the rebels, tiocagh an la ". Indeed, more than a few unionist politicians were murdered during the troubles.

So what. It`s not as if unionism has clean hand on that score either.
Never mind the denial of basic human rights going back through their history of abuse and gerrymandering in northern Ireland

cycle4fun wrote: »

She showed her true colours / the mask slipped when she clenched her fist and sneering shouted the old PIRA battle cry " Up the rebels, tiocagh an la ".

And you do not believe that the DUP showed themselves to be the same bigoted political troglodytes that have attempted to keep "them Taigs" in their place throughout the whole history of Northen Ireland ?

Professor Moriarty

cycle4fun wrote: »

She used the battle cry of the PIRA "Up the rebels, tiocagh an la ".

Actually, it's 'Tiocfaidh ár lá'. Did you not know that?

charlie14 wrote: »

More like the ultimate cutting off your nose to spite your face where the DUP have left their on leader most likely having to resign, embarrassed May and Varadkar and virtually assured direct rule where SF willbe granted their ILA by the British government and have the added indignity of have SSM imposed that they have fought tooth and nail to prevent.

A bit thin skinned would it not be for a politician to get peeved and scupper an agreement over another`s use of a party political slogan would it not.
Hypocritical even when you consider her own use of words like crocodiles in references to that party.

The deal being rejected was nothing to do with Foster getting the hump. She was in agreement until the 10 abroad in Westminster got wind of it.

Everyone of importance knows the deal was done and like the Brexit, Phase 1 negotiations the 'backroom boys' ordered Arlene to withdraw from it.

Only a matter of time now, all SF and the others wanting an ILA have to do is wait. Their day will come.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

She used the slogan the party have used for decades.

She used the battle cry of the PIRA "Up the rebels, tiocagh an la ".

cycle4fun wrote: »

She showed her true colours / the mask slipped when she clenched her fist and sneering shouted the old PIRA battle cry " Up the rebels, tiocagh an la ".

She used the slogan the party have used for decades.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

And Mary Lou had something to do with the attack on Arlene's family?

She showed her true colours / the mask slipped when she clenched her fist and sneering shouted the old PIRA battle cry " Up the rebels, tiocagh an la ".

charlie14 wrote: »

until the 10 abroad in Westminster got wind of it.

Many of the 10 MP's lost friends and families to people who shouted "Up the rebels, tiocagh an la ". Indeed, more than a few unionist politicians were murdered during the troubles.

cycle4fun wrote: »

Its pure blackmail on the part of Sinn Fein. Talk about an own goal in the end though.

There was no hope of getting a deal with Arlene Foster last week when the previous weekend Mary Louu McDonald insulted the DUP leader / brought back nighmare memories for her by shouting the old PIRA slogan they used during terrorist attacks " Up the rebels- tioci ar la" when she and her father were the victims of various PIRA attacks.

More like the ultimate cutting off your nose to spite your face where the DUP have left their on leader most likely having to resign, embarrassed May and Varadkar and virtually assured direct rule where SF willbe granted their ILA by the British government and have the added indignity of have SSM imposed that they have fought tooth and nail to prevent.

A bit thin skinned would it not be for a politician to get peeved and scupper an agreement over another`s use of a party political slogan would it not.
Hypocritical even when you consider her own use of words like crocodiles in references to that party.

The deal being rejected was nothing to do with Foster getting the hump. She was in agreement until the 10 abroad in Westminster got wind of it.

cycle4fun wrote: »

I do not think Peter Robinson is the leader of a movement or organisation which attempted to murder Arlenes father or attacked her school bus with murderous intent.

And Mary Lou had something to do with the attack on Arlene's family?

An awful lot of other people have to deal with people whose organisations attacked and killed their family members in northern Ireland everyday. There was over 3000 killed and countless others maimed and killed.
Arlene is not in any hierarchy.

Professor Moriarty

cycle4fun wrote: »

Not really. The amount of people who filled out the census form in Irish was miniscule. Even here in the Republic, according to Bank of Ireland fewer than 00.1% of their customers use the Irish language option on their pass machines. It is a waste of taxpayers money trying to force people to use it. Up north Sinn Fein are using the irish language to rub their opponents up the wrong way and antagonise others.

Not really? So Irish isn't indigenous to Ireland. Here is a definition of 'indigenous':

Originating or occurring naturally in a particular place; native.

Tell me, which language is indigenous so?

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What did Arlene make of Peter Robinson using the same term jokingly?

I do not think Peter Robinson is the leader of a movement or organisation which attempted to murder Arlenes father or attacked her school bus with murderous intent.

recedite wrote: »

So NI schools can and do teach Irish to A level standard.
The British state funds Irish language broadcasting.
Anybody who wants to learn and speak the language can do so freely.

Is it really a major inconvenience to shinners that they can't demand to have a court case heard as gaeilge?
State-funded translators provided for everybody, despite that fact that all involved would be back speaking English again in the pub afterwards. Wouldn't it just be a pointless waste of public money? Jobs for the boys/cousins.

True enough, and that sums it up well.

cycle4fun wrote: »

Thin end of the wedge. Here the Irish language was used for political purposes too eg state jobs.

Its pure blackmail on the part of Sinn Fein. Talk about an own goal in the end though.

There was no hope of getting a deal with Arlene Foster last week when the previous weekend Mary Louu McDonald insulted the DUP leader / brought back nighmare memories for her by shouting the old PIRA slogan they used during terrorist attacks " Up the rebels- tioci ar la" when she and her father were the victims of various PIRA attacks.

What did Arlene make of Peter Robinson using the same term jokingly?

Nobody, only our faux outrage brigade in the south, seem bothered by that from ML.

A deal was done, it is pointless trying to mask that. Two PM's do not hotfoot it to Belfast on the basis of a 'maybe'.

But the belligerents controlling Arlene said 'Never'.
Ball is just kicked down the road though. This is only going one way.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Nobody is being forced to use anything.

Thin end of the wedge. Here the Irish language was used for political purposes too eg state jobs.

charlie14 wrote: »

Today`s headline of Mary Lou McDonald reiterating there would be no re-forming of Stormont`s power-sharing Executive without an Irish Language Act leaves both the Dublin government, and especially the London government (with their DUP partners) between a rock and the proverbial.

Its pure blackmail on the part of Sinn Fein. Talk about an own goal in the end though.

There was no hope of getting a deal with Arlene Foster last week when the previous weekend Mary Louu McDonald insulted the DUP leader / brought back nighmare memories for her by shouting the old PIRA slogan they used during terrorist attacks " Up the rebels- tioci ar la" when she and her father were the victims of various PIRA attacks.

cycle4fun wrote: »

Not really. The amount of people who filled out the census form in Irish was miniscule. Even here in the Republic, according to Bank of Ireland fewer than 00.1% of their customers use the Irish language option on their pass machines. It is a waste of taxpayers money trying to force people to use it. Up north Sinn Fein are using the irish language to rub their opponents up the wrong way and antagonise others.

Nobody is being forced to use anything. In fact, 'compulsory' is a scaremonger invented by the DUP.

Nobody was rubbed up the wrong way when May and Varadkar got the nod that a deal was done.

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Irish is an indigenous language on this island.

Not really. The amount of people who filled out the census form in Irish was miniscule. Even here in the Republic, according to Bank of Ireland fewer than 00.1% of their customers use the Irish language option on their pass machines. It is a waste of taxpayers money trying to force people to use it. Up north Sinn Fein are using the irish language to rub their opponents up the wrong way and antagonise others.

Esel

blanch152 wrote: »

On the indigenous language bit, do you realise that the Ulster dialect of the Irish language died out in the mid-1970s...

Ulster has 9 counties. Is Gaelic dead in Donegal, for instance?

Do you refer to Northern Ireland as 'the Province', by any chance?

https://youtu.be/_hcI5q7F8OY

Edward M wrote: »

Like, aon focal, dha focal, triur focal eile?

Or they could practice their aon do tri`s when lighting up in the Renewable Heat Incentive Scheme so they could all burn cash at the same time.
It would also work for ensuring Orange Order bands all fired up at the same time.
Endless possibilities.

Edward M

charlie14 wrote: »

If it was possible to insist on applicants for an Irish passport having the cupla focal, with Brexit and all that maybe unionists would look on an Irish language act more benignly.

Just saying.

Like, aon focal, dha focal, triur focal eile?

tayto lover wrote: »

There was a programme on a few weeks ago about Protestants learning Irish in Belfast. I can't remember which station it was on.

I thought it was great that something like that could happen and would be all for the ILA. I'm not fluent myself but have a fairly good vocabulary and would love to be a fluent Irish speaker. I could keep a conversation but get stuck occasionally.

I think the problems arose between SF and the DUP because some people spoke too soon and let the cat out of the bag so to speak and that riled the DUP grassroots who would like to remain in the dark ages.

If it was possible to insist on applicants for an Irish passport having the cupla focal, with Brexit and all that maybe unionists would look on an Irish language act more benignly.

Just saying.

blanch152 wrote: »

Quite frankly, that is nonsense.

Why are people posting here, other than to express their opinion on an issue?

If I want to listen to people just blindly repeating the arguments of the political party they support, I will listen to boring Dail proceedings. There are people prepared to discuss what the content of an ILA might be and there are also people who don't have a clue because they are repeating a slogan picked up from the political party of choice.

Have you actually read the title of this thread ?

It is "Northern Ireland. Have Sinn Fein scored a major own goal"

In that regard your views or that of any poster on the Irish language are completely irrelevant.

What is relevant to the topic is who has scored a major own goal.

SF who through direct rule will have the British government that in regards of Scotland, Wales and the St. Andrews Agreement are in no position to refuse an Irish language act.

or

The DUP whose leader was prepared to accept SF`s proposals on an ILA that would have restored Stormont until it was scuppered by her own Westminster MP`s resulting in possible direct rule.
Something that not only made her look powerless as leader of her own party, (and where she may be required to resign as leader with no Stormont Assembly) , also made May and Varadkar look naive.
All that plus the DUP may now have SSM imposed on them regardless of their wishes.

Right now there is only one party scrambling around for a ball they kicked into the back of their own net imho and it aint SF.