The 8th amendment(Mod warning in op)

pilly wrote: »

Doctors will not tie a woman's tubes as long as she's young.

Another example of the lack of bodily autonomy women have.

The depends on the hospital and the doctor. Some hospitals won't do it at all - e.g. St. Vincents - for religious reasons (that's another discussion) and some women have been refused by some doctors due to their age. But other doctors will.

pilly

Orion wrote:

The depends on the hospital and the doctor. Some hospitals won't do it at all - e.g. St. Vincents - for religious reasons (that's another discussion) and some women have been refused by some doctors due to their age. But other doctors will.

From my own experience neither the Coombe nor the Rotunda would. Mind you this was 10 years ago when they both had male "Masters" which even then struck me as a disgusting term.

The term is still used for some reason but at least now there are some females in the role.

The Rotunda is catholic too. Didn't think the Coombe was. The NMH does do them. But as for age that depends on the doctor in any of them.

kylith

A culture of no sex before marriage had the Magdalene laundries doing a roaring trade, back in the day. And the lack of sex ed meant that girls didn't even know how what sex was or how pregnancy happened.

JupiterKid wrote: »

It’s funny, isn’t it? Teenage pregnancies here in Ireland have seen huge drops in recent years as proper sex education has finally made its way to all schools, despite fierce and bitter resistance from religious right wing types. In every country where sex education has been implemented and enhanced, teen pregnancy rates have dropped.

Doesn’t tally with the so called “pro-life” brigade who rally against sex education and easily available contraception as it will turn virginal pure young girls into shameless hussies who will murder their unborn babies at the first opportunity.

Utterly distorted, self-defeatist thinking.

It's interesting to compare number of teenage pregnancies with the recorded number of teenagers who travel to Britain for an abortion. Between 2001 and 2016, the number of teenage pregnancies fell by 64%. In the same timeframe, the number of Irish teenagers recorded having an abortion in Britain fell by 74%.

At first glance, it would seem that the best way to reduce the incidence of abortion, for teenagers at least, is to prevent crisis pregnancies in the first place.

And this would seem to be consistent with international experience too. The Netherlands, which has the least restrictive abortion laws in Europe, has one of the lowest abortion rates in the world. And that's mainly credited to their sex education in schools, their family planning services, and the availability (and subsidisation in some cases) of contraception

bubblypop wrote: »

What about people who dont want to marry?
Should they not have a full sex life then?

To say nothing of the people who couldn't get married until about two and a half years ago.

Funny stuff going on around the timing of the referendum. Looks like a lot of 3rd level students, generally pro choice, could have difficulty voting. May difficult because of exams, but there is talk about pushing it back to June now where many students will be off travelling or on J1s.

JDD

Thanks for telling your story January. It's similar to mine. On my third pregnancy I was one of the 0.1% who get pregnant on the pill (despite taking it properly). I seriously considered the online abortion pill, going as far as ordering it and then cancelling my order. We were lucky enough to be in a financial position to afford another child, so that was a big plus in favour of me choosing to continue the pregnancy. However I also already had two C-sections and desperately didn't want a third, as I had diastasis recti which was causing debilitating back pain. However weighing up the pros and cons I decided to continue.

The NMH actually suggested that I have my tubes tied, after I had suspected placenta accretia. My chances of having it on a fourth pregnancy are very high. The chances of getting pregnant after having your tubes tied are 0.1% and its unlikely lightening will strike twice, but should it happen (and the 8th has not been repealed) I won't be cancelling my order of the pill. And I certainly won't regret it. Had I chosen to take the online pill last time around I wouldn't have regretted it either - in the same way that I could have had 20 children by now and I don't miss any of them either.

The Govt are still focusing on the 25th May. Most students don't go until early June so should still be around.

JDD

And hopefully the universities won't schedule exams on that day.

Most of them finish before then tbh. Even if they do the polls are open from 7am to 10pm. More people will be working than doing exams and we manage to vote.

ohnonotgmail

Orion wrote: »

Most of them finish before then tbh. Even if they do the polls are open from 7am to 10pm. More people will be working than doing exams and we manage to vote.

true enough but a lot of students are still registered at their home address so travel home to vote.

Social Protection Minister Regina Doherty said that the abortion referendum will "most likely be held in June".

https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/minister-denies-confusing-repeal-issue-says-vote-may-be-held-in-june-467360.html

Orion wrote: »

Most of them finish before then tbh. Even if they do the polls are open from 7am to 10pm. More people will be working than doing exams and we manage to vote.

Students usually need to travel further though, because where they're registered to vote can be in a completely different part of the country from where they go to college. That's not as much an issue for working people, because any travel time is probably their usual commute anyway.

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

true enough but a lot of students are still registered at their home address so travel home to vote.

And are also reliant on public transport to travel.

Same sex marriage referendum was held on the 22nd of May. Would be happy with the end of May but many 3 level students will have already made travel plans for June.

lazygal

NuMarvel wrote: »

Students usually need to travel further though, because where they're registered to vote can be in a completely different part of the country from where they go to college. That's not as much an issue for working people, because any travel time is probably their usual commute anyway.

Why can't they register where they live during term time? When I was in college people who really wanted to vote made sure it didn't require a giant trip back to a home county. It is not a huge deal, we moved house last year and reregistered in no time.

Wombatman wrote: »

Social Protection Minister Regina Doherty said that the abortion referendum will "most likely be held in June".

https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/minister-denies-confusing-repeal-issue-says-vote-may-be-held-in-june-467360.html

Yet Simon Harris has consistently said 25th May and he's publishing the bill on the 6th of March which is two days shy of the deadline for that date.
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/abortion-referendum/eighth-amendment-referendum-harris-to-bring-draft-legislation-on-vote-to-cabinet-36622627.html

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

true enough but a lot of students are still registered at their home address so travel home to vote.

NuMarvel wrote: »

Students usually need to travel further though, because where they're registered to vote can be in a completely different part of the country from where they go to college. That's not as much an issue for working people, because any travel time is probably their usual commute anyway.

NuMarvel wrote: »

And are also reliant on public transport to travel.

They registered in their thousands for MarRef at their college addresses. All SUs have been running registration drives and when the bill is published you can go on to a supplementary register. There really is no excuse. If you want to vote you can, no matter where you are currently residing.

lazygal wrote: »

Why can't they register where they live during term time? When I was in college people who really wanted to vote made sure it didn't require a giant trip back to a home county. It is not a huge deal, we moved house last year and reregistered in no time.

I think a better question is why can't we let people vote in referendums at any polling station? A constituency based approach makes sense for general or local elections, but for national polls like referendums or Presidential elections, there shouldn't be any reason someone can't go to whatever polling station they want.

Neyite

If the pro side can organise free buses for OAP's up to Dublin to attend pro-life rallies, there's no reason why the repeal side can't crowdfund for the students to bus them home from their university cities to vote at home if needs be. The bus network is already there, it's just a matter of asking those drivers to do an extra shift.

I'd donate to that GoFundMe page if it was set up. Also, anyone who lives abroad and is ineligible to vote could also donate thereby assisting a repealer in casting their vote.

Orion wrote: »

Yet Simon Harris has consistently said 25th May and he's publishing the bill on the 6th of March which is two days shy of the deadline for that date.
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/abortion-referendum/eighth-amendment-referendum-harris-to-bring-draft-legislation-on-vote-to-cabinet-36622627.html

What deadline is that? As far as I'm aware, a referendum can be formally called no less than 30 days beforehand and no more than 90 days before. If the referendum was to be held on the 25th May, the final deadline the Oireachtas and government have to get all their parts done in the referendum bill is 25th April (30 days). That's to debate and pass the referendum bill, and issue the polling day order to formally confirm the referendum.

Obviously though sooner is better in any case, especially because the referendum commission can't be set up until the Dáil start debating the referendum bill. But the government isn't likely to introduce a bill until after the Supreme Court appeal about the definition of unborn, which is due to be heard this week.

lazygal

NuMarvel wrote: »

I think a better question is why can't we let people vote in referendums at any polling station? A constituency based approach makes sense for general or local elections, but for national polls like referendums or Presidential elections, there shouldn't be any reason someone can't go to whatever polling station they want.

Right now that is not the system we have. And it won't be for the referendum. So students should ensure they face the least number of barriers in terms of voting, which often means registering where they live now and will live in May, and not moaning about how they stayed on the electoral roll somewhere they barely visit or can't get to easily.

MrPudding

2wsxcde3 wrote: »

Just because women are having abortions, it does not mean that abortion is ok. Pro-choicers seem to confuse the idea that if something is already happening, then that thing is a good and ok thing.

We have people not paying their TV licence. Does that mean we should stop stigmatizing people who dont pay their TV licence and do away with the TV licence and shut RTE down? Men are getting on a plane every weekend and travelling to Amsterdam to have sex with 3 or more prostitutes. Does that mean we should stop stigmatizing men who travel to another country to have sex with a prostitute and introduce brothels in every town and village across Ireland?

That seems oddly specific...

MrP

NuMarvel wrote: »

What deadline is that? As far as I'm aware, a referendum can be formally called no less than 30 days beforehand and no more than 90 days before. If the referendum was to be held on the 25th May, the final deadline the Oireachtas and government have to get all their parts done in the referendum bill is 25th April (30 days). That's to debate and pass the referendum bill, and issue the polling day order to formally confirm the referendum.

Obviously though sooner is better in any case, especially because the referendum commission can't be set up until the Dáil start debating the referendum bill. But the government isn't likely to introduce a bill until after the Supreme Court appeal about the definition of unborn, which is due to be heard this week.

You're right about the 30 and 90n days but this is their own deadline due to the Dail breaking for a week for Paddys Day and 2 weeks for Easter. They are allocating 3 weeks for debates apart from those breaks. So realistically the 1st week of March is the deadline to publish the bill in the Oireachtas.

MrPudding wrote: »

That seems oddly specific...

MrP

I think it's another one of those bizarre allegations that "You don't need a link for the obvious" to back up.

Billy86

NuMarvel wrote: »

To say nothing of the people who couldn't get married until about two and a half years ago.

I was in the middle of posting just that, it's quite the convenient overlap that so many against sex before marriage would also likely be against same sex marriage don't ya think?