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Can a Christian vote for unlimited abortion?

J C

I don't believe that a Christian can morally vote for unlimited abortion.

The Sixth Commandment is very simple and very clear ... 'Thou shalt not kill'.

It means that you cannot kill yourself or another Human Being, except in self defence (or the defence of another Human Being) where no other option is available.
This is the basis for all laws protecting the person and criminalising the killing of other people in Common Law Jurisprudence.

Induced abortion is ethically and morally wrong ... except where the life of the mother is directly threatened and there is no other option available to save her.

This is the current law in Ireland.

Voting to expand Irish Law to allow the unlimited killing of unborn children is not something that any Christian (or other monotheist, indeed) can do in conscience and in clear contravention of the Sixth Commandment of God.

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J C

david75 wrote: »

Kind of. Certain posters end up sounding like certain other posters.
It’s almost as if there’s a few people taking shifts running different accounts.

Gonna PM a moderator about it.

When all else fails ... you come up with an unfounded conspiracy theory.

You'll be denying that I'm Human ... next.:)

J C

david75 wrote: »

Is anybody else seeing the sudden shift in tone and language among certain very regular pro life posters here at certain periods?

NO.

david75

pilly wrote: »

How do you mean? When the masks slips?

Kind of. Certain posters end up sounding like certain other posters.
It’s almost as if there’s a few people taking shifts running different accounts.

Gonna PM a moderator about it.

J C

pilly wrote: »

The masks slips every so often rose and they expose the same evil attitude that the nuns of old had.

Thankfully nuns as a breed are soon to be extinct in Ireland and hopefully the extremists will follow.

As a true Christian I'm disgusted by the hatred, contempt and envy shown towards women in this thread but it won't keep me awake.

The continuous self-pity and false claims that anybody 'who calls it like it is' ... is automatically anti-women is wearing very thin ... especially, when they are simultaneously demanding to be allowed kill future young women with impunity ... just because they happen to be unborn.

pilly

david75 wrote:

Is anybody else seeing the sudden shift in tone and language among certain very regular pro life posters here at certain periods?

How do you mean? When the masks slips?

david75

Is anybody else seeing the sudden shift in tone and language among certain very regular pro life posters here at certain periods?

pilly

WhiteRoses wrote:

Your first paragraph once again speaks volumes of your compempt, disdain, lack of respect and distrust of women. You arenâ€™t even trying to hide it any more. Itâ€™s clear for all to see.

The masks slips every so often rose and they expose the same evil attitude that the nuns of old had.

Thankfully nuns as a breed are soon to be extinct in Ireland and hopefully the extremists will follow.

As a true Christian I'm disgusted by the hatred, contempt and envy shown towards women in this thread but it won't keep me awake.

J C

Achasanai wrote: »

Can fetuses go straight to heaven, though? I thought baptism and accepting Jesus as our saviour was a prerequisite?

We don't have the right to kill them, whether they go straight to Heaven ... or cease to exist, as Atheists, for example, would have us believe.

J C

david75 wrote: »

What a load of baloney.

Oh. Wait.

Yeah I think you’ll find the almost entire majority of people voting in this will be turned off completely by peoplexlike yourself pushing their god bothering bible crap on them.

Good luck with that.

The choice of life or death is now being laid before everyone ... and I humbly ask them to choose life.

I can do no more.

Achasanai

J C wrote: »

That is what they are ... innocent little angels destined for the right hand of God ... and they're certainly not tumours or dogs, like they have so disparagingly been described on this thread.

Can fetuses go straight to heaven, though? I thought baptism and accepting Jesus as our saviour was a prerequisite?

J C

Katie Full Leak wrote: »

Whether people think it's a child or not. It is a human foetus. That's what people want to kill.
As I've said , people here have advocated that it's not a human but not one has told me what they think it is...I patiently await an answer on that one!

Tatranska, you may need the patience of Job on that one.:)

david75

J C wrote: »

They do actually ... the love and forgiveness of Jesus Christ is the only way to stop their hurt for doing such an irreversible thing.

No Human Being can undo the damage done ... and only Jesus Christ can forgive it.

Matthew 11:28-30 King James Version (KJV)
28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Women and their unborn children need access to the best medical care possible ... but doctors don't need their hands untied to kill one of them, just because the woman decides that she wants to 'evict' her unborn child.
Tenants will have more rights of occupation than unborn children, if the 8th is repealed ... and tenants don't die, if they are evicted.

Christians are Jesus Christ's representatives on Earth ... so we are fully authorised by Him to hand out His love and forgiveness ... to all who ask for it.

Quote :-
'Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you.' (God).

What a load of baloney.

Oh. Wait.

Yeah I think you’ll find the almost entire majority of people voting in this will be turned off completely by peoplexlike yourself pushing their god bothering bible crap on them.

Good luck with that.

uck51js9zml2yt

....... wrote: »

Currently a foetuses right to life trumps a woman's right to bodily autonomy.

This should not be the case. It shouldn't even be questioned!

Currently both have an equal rights to life except in the event the foetus remaining alive puts the life of the mother at risk.
In such an event, the foetus can be killed.

The proposal is to remove the right to life of the foetus up to 12 weeks for any reason conceivable

This isn't about the right to bodily autonomy it's about the removal of the right to life of the unborn.

Whether people think it's a child or not. It is a human foetus. That's what people want to kill.
As I've said , people here have advocated that it's not a human but not one has told me what they think it is...I patiently await an answer on that one!

J C

....... wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

As you leave, I would like to give you a parting thought ...

... there is a way of terminating a pregnancy ... without killing the child ... its called giving birth !!!

J C

....... wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

In the same way that your right to life trumps any other person 'right' to use their bodily autonomy to kill you.

.......

This post has been deleted.

J C

david75 wrote: »

They don’t need the love and forgiveness of Jesus Christ.

They do actually ... the love and forgiveness of Jesus Christ is the only way to stop their hurt for doing such an irreversible thing.

No Human Being can undo the damage done ... and only Jesus Christ can forgive it.

Matthew 11:28-30 King James Version (KJV)
28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

david75 wrote: »

They need access to appropriate medical care in their own country and doctors need their hands untied to provide it.

Women and their unborn children need access to the best medical care possible ... but doctors don't need their hands untied to kill one of them, just because the woman decides that she wants to 'evict' her unborn child.
Tenants will have more rights of occupation than unborn children, if the 8th is repealed ... and tenants don't die, if they are evicted.

david75 wrote: »

You can keep the love and forgiveness. It’s up to Jesus to hand that out, not you or I.

Christians are Jesus Christ's representatives on Earth ... so we are fully authorised by Him to hand out His love and forgiveness ... to all who ask for it.

Quote :-
'Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you.' (God).

david75

J C wrote: »

I have nothing but sympathy for women who are hurt by abortion ... but I don't have the same empathy for those who urge them on to kill their unborn children on the basis of 'my uterus, my choice what stays in there' or some other equally outrageous assertion.

That is what they are ... innocent little angels destined for the right hand of God ... and they're certainly not tumours or dogs, like they have so disparagingly been described on this thread.

I wouldn't bet on that.
... and I don't think that society should limit your bodily autonomy ... until you start using it to kill others.

Extending the love and forgiveness of Jesus Christ to women hurt by abortion.

They don’t need the love and forgiveness of Jesus Christ.

They need access to appropriate medical care in their own country and doctors need their hands untied to provide it.

You can keep the love and forgiveness. It’s up to Jesus to hand that out, not you or I.

J C

WhiteRoses wrote: »

Your first paragraph once again speaks volumes of your compempt, disdain, lack of respect and distrust of women. You aren’t even trying to hide it any more. It’s clear for all to see.

I have nothing but sympathy for women who are hurt by abortion ... but I don't have the same empathy for those who urge them on to kill their unborn children on the basis of 'my uterus, my choice' or some other equally selfish assertion.

WhiteRoses wrote: »

Spare me with your ‘innocent little angels’ rubbish.

That is what they are ... innocent little angels destined for the right hand of God ... and they're certainly not tumours or dogs, like they have so disparagingly been described on this thread.

WhiteRoses wrote: »

You can go on and on as much as you like, nothing on this earth qualifies you to interfere in my healthcare and in my bodily autonomy. Very soon our constitution will be changed to reflect that.

I wouldn't bet on that.
... and I don't think that society should limit your bodily autonomy ... until you start using it to kill others.

WhiteRoses wrote: »

Then you’ll have to find something else to preach about and interfere in. What next??

Extending the love and forgiveness of Jesus Christ to women hurt by abortion.

J C

pilly wrote: »

Again, you know typing something in bold doesn't make it a fact don't You?

I never said it is a fact ... just a well founded prediction based on the 'road map' provided by the Citizens Assembly ... for the convergence of Irish abortion law with English abortion law.

SusieBlue

J C wrote: »

If that is your position, you you should be much more careful about what you let in there ... instead of expecting everyone to allow you to 'get rid of' your irresponsible 'mistakes' ... by killing them

... so a child, a tumour and a puppy are equivalent in your mind ... the people of Ireland need to bear in mind that it is people like you who are demanding abortion and expecting them to damn themselves to sign the death warrants for these innocent little angels.

Your first paragraph once again speaks volumes of your compempt, disdain, lack of respect and distrust of women. You aren’t even trying to hide it any more. It’s clear for all to see.

Spare me with your ‘innocent little angels’ rubbish.

You can go on and on as much as you like, nothing on this earth qualifies you to interfere in my healthcare and in my bodily autonomy. Very soon our constitution will be changed to reflect that.

Then you’ll have to find something else to preach about and interfere in. What next??

J C

....... wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

If that is your position, you you should be much more careful about what you let in there ... instead of expecting everyone to allow you to 'get rid of' the results, as you euphemistically call it.

....... wrote: »

I dont care if its a child, a tumour or a puppy. Nothing that it is is more important than my bodily autonomy.

... so you think that a child, a tumour and a puppy are equivalent ... the people of Ireland need to bear in mind the people who are demanding abortion and expecting them to sign the metaphorical death warrants for these innocent little angels, by voting for the repeal of the 8th.

I will say this though, your position is at least honest ... you don't mince your words ... and you say what you mean ... and obviously mean what you say ... unlike others who 'dance around' trying to deny the obvious humanity of the unborn child ... so that they can delude themselves that they're not actually voting to kill a Human Being.

pilly

J C wrote:

... so a reality check would say that the repeal of the 8th will be rapidly followed with the introduction of abortion law in Ireland that will be equivalent to English abortion law.

Again, you know typing something in bold doesn't make it a fact don't You?

J C

Delirium wrote: »

If no posters support late-term abortions, why would they support infanticide?

It doesn't matter that no posters here support late abortions ... it is proposed that abortion will be available on demand up to 12 weeks ... and later for specified reasons ... that are conveniently not specified yet.
For example, 48% of The Citizens Assembly said that 'later' could be without time limit for an unborn child who has a significant foetal abnormality that is not likely to result in death before or shortly after birth.
... and this is the precise position of English abortion law.

52% of The Citizens Assembly, for example, said that 'later' could be without time limit for situations of serious risk to the health of the woman ... which again is the position of English abortion law.

... so a reality check would say that the repeal of the 8th will be rapidly followed with the introduction of abortion law in Ireland that will be equivalent to English abortion law ... and the 12 weeks weeks, horrific and all as it is ... is only the beginning.

https://www.citizensassembly.ie/en/The-Eighth-Amendment-of-the-Constitution/Final-Report-on-the-Eighth-Amendment-of-the-Constitution/Final-Report-incl-Appendix-A-D.pdf

J C

....... wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Can we stop trying to make out that a foetus isn't a Human Being.
Here is the definition of fetus :-
"The embryo of a mammal in the later stages of development, when it shows all the main recognizable features of the mature animal, esp a human embryo from the end of the second month of pregnancy until birth. "
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/fetus

... so there is no practical difference in the Humanity of an 8 week old fetus and a newborn child (or indeed an adult) ... yet it is proposed to immediately start killing 12 week old unborn children, if the 8th is repealed.

.......

This post has been deleted.

.......

This post has been deleted.

J C

uptherebels wrote: »

its giving others the right to choose what is best for them, regardless of your own feelings on abortion. That's why it is pro choice;)

What is best for me isn't always best for others ... and when it isn't ... there ends my right to choose what is best for me. Nobody should be killed because they are merely 'inconvenient'.

Dr. Alveda C. King, niece of Martin Luther King Jr has captured the tragedy of abortion in America ... and her words apply equally to Ireland, if we repeal the 8th and introduce this barbarism:-
Quote:-
"We have been fueled by the fire of “women’s rights,” so long that we have become deaf to the outcry of the real victims whose rights are being trampled upon, the babies and the mothers. . . .
What about the rights of each baby who is artificially breached before coming to term in his or her mother’s womb, only to have her skull punctured, and feel, yes agonizingly “feel” the life run out of her before she takes her first breath of freedom. What about the rights of these women who have been called to pioneer the new frontiers of the new millennium only to have their lives snuffed out before the calendar even turns?

Oh, God, what would Martin Luther King, Jr., who dreamed of having his children judged by the content of their characters do if he’d lived to see the contents of thousands of children’s skulls emptied into the bottomless caverns of the abortionists pits?

It is time for America, perhaps the most blessed nation on earth to lead the world in repentance, and in restoration of life! . . . Abortion is at the forefront of our destruction."

... and Abraham Lincoln said that "No law can give me the right to do what is wrong."

recedite

....... wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Nobody said that, and the Irish constitution would not allow it anyway.

J C

Delirium wrote: »

No. I said i wouldn't interact due to your posts.

You subsequently misrepresent a post of mine again to suggest I said something about you I didn't.

You can either quote the post or apologise.

You're speaking in riddles ... please show where I misrepresented your post.