Timberrrrrrrr wrote: » This may come as a shock to you JC but many women don't even report rape to their friends/family as they feel ashamed! My own cousin only admitted to being raped 8 years after it happened as she felt people would blame her!
J C wrote: » I do find that shocking TBH ... and this needs to change. Women who are raped need to feel that they can report the rape and they have no need to feel ashamed for something that they never consented to. It is also vital that they receive proper medical treatment as soon as possible after the rape.
NuMarvel wrote: » Judging by the silence of Irish anti-repealers, it's okay when it happens abroad or in secret.
NuMarvel wrote: » My stance is that the poster I replied to is being deliberately incendiary and isn't interested in a proper discussion of the matter. In this country, abortion isn't regarded as the killing of another human being. If it was, anti-repealers would be saying or doing a lot more about the thousands of women who travel or the hundreds who order pills every year.
NuMarvel wrote: » I gave my opinion. You're being deliberately provocative, and abortion isn't the killing of another human being. Those are my opinions.
NuMarvel wrote: » As for being responsible for only what we can do, I'd remind you that we have stopped a girl from having an abortion overseas, so clearly we can, or at least could at one point. The issue for anti-repealers isn't that they can't, but that they don't want to in the first place.
david75 wrote: » Wow. JC. It’s 2018. Not 1930.
J C wrote: » Nobody can be legally prosecuted for doing something in another juristiction, that isn't a crime in that juristiction ... even if some male or female feminist has told you that it is possible. ... so women who have abortions legally in England, cannot be presecuted in Ireland for doing so.
J C wrote: » In any event, they need loving care for having done, what they know in their heart is such a terrible thing. They have to live with what they have done ... killing their own child ... and that is punishment enough, IMO.
Timberrrrrrrr wrote: » I agree And for those who are afraid to report it should have access to abortion services without Having to jump through hoops hence REPEAL THE 8TH!
NuMarvel wrote: » Putting things in bold doesn't make them true. There is precedent in Irish law for stopping someone having an abortion in a jurisdiction where it is legal, so clearly it could be done.
NuMarvel wrote: » I have to say I didn't expect you of all people to support decriminalisation of abortion. Unfortunately, it can't be done without repeal of the 8th, so your "concern" rings hollow.
J C wrote: » There is no precedent.
J C wrote: » ... and irresponsible behaviour is the same today as it was in 1930 !!!
Delirium wrote: » there was even a referendum to prevent it from happening again.
J C wrote: » How does a woman who is supposedly 'afraid' to tell her doctor that she was raped ... and get proper medical treatment for the rape ... suddenly pluck up the courage to go and have an abortion ... which is orders of magnitude more difficult than ringing a doctor and getting ordinary medical treatment.
david75 wrote: » As is curtain twitching and controlling women’s bodies, it seems. You said a few posts back that women have to live with themselves after having an abortion. Isn’t that maybe some good advice from yourself to yourself you seem to be missing? It’s their decision to make. It’s never an easy decision to make. Leave them to make it for themselves. It’s none of our business.
J C wrote: » There was no need for the Referendum ... but it put it beyond all doubt, which was important ... because the exact same erroneous claims were being made at the time, that women could/should be prosecuted on their return from England, after aborting.
J C wrote: » In common with most people, I have sympathy with woman who is in such extremis in her own mind, that she (erroneously) thinks the only way out is an abortion. I am much less understanding of those who enclurage women to have abortions or who coldly perform abortions ... and I believe the law should punish the abortionist ... rather than the woman who has the abortion.
pilly wrote: » So you want people to make an argument but not one you disagree with?
pilly wrote: » FWIW my point of view is very simple and straight forward. Fully grown human women and their existing children are MORE important than an embryo. Now you can disagree with that all you like but you can't demand that I don't make that argument.
Bob_Marley wrote: » Why this constant pretending of what someone said instead of what they actually said. I want to here an intelligent thought out pro-abortion argument I disagree with, and one that isn't trying to dismiss the biological human life cycle and pretend an unborn child is not a human life. No innocent human life is more important or worthy of living than another, so that argument holds no water, so other that just simply repeating one human life is more superior to another, have you got anything else, anything of substance ?
david75 wrote: » I do. A foetus isn’t a baby. Nor a human life.
david75 wrote: » As is curtain twitching and controlling women’s bodies, it seems.
david75 wrote: » You said a few posts back that women have to live with themselves after having an abortion. Isn’t that maybe some good advice from yourself to yourself you seem to be missing?
david75 wrote: » It’s their decision to make. It’s never an easy decision to make. Leave them to make it for themselves. It’s none of our business.
Timberrrrrrrr wrote: » Are you really this naive or are you just being obtuse? Many people in ireland go to the "family" doctor and a woman may feel that she cannot talk to him/her. The faxt of the matter is that as long as the 8th is there then women will have to go through the trauma of travelling to the UK for an abortion. Hopefully that will change very soon.
end of the road wrote: » if it was happening, you would have a point. it's not happening, nobody is controling women's bodies. no, not at all. if they are going to kill the unborn, they have to except the consiquences of that, which will be having to live with it and a large element of society disagreeing with their decisian. it's only their decisian to make in exceptional circumstances. outside that, just like the killing of any other human being, they have decided to do it, but they don't have the actual right to do it in this state, and rightly so. if they aren't going to be left to kill a born human being (rightly so) then it is correct that they aren't left to kill the unborn within this state. if it's none of our business when someone kills the unborn, then it's not our business when they kill a newborn or any other human being either. we should just strip away all the laws in relation to murder, rape, paedophilia etc, seeing as it's none of our business as a society. i'd bet you won't go for that however, as you realise we have to have laws rules and regulations in an attempt to control and prevent behaviour that unduely harms others.
david75 wrote: » Passing judgements? What consequences? From who exactly? Large elements of society disagreeing with them? To what end? Again you’re missing the point. It’s nobody else’s business. Once again a foetus is not a baby. It is not a child. Therefore your argument is flawed to begin with.
david75 wrote: » Same copy and paste non answer. It’s to the pro life campaigns undoing that they can’t see past this totally blinkered hardwired myopia and refusal of all other opinions and ideas that will lose this referendum for them. It’s a tired old and transparent game to muddy the waters in a campaign and try cause hysteria and fear. But the imperious moralising and lecturing about ‘living with consequences’ and imposing moral superiority in an issue where it doesn’t belong will be the clincher. You really think anyone of voting age in Ireland in 2018 will buy anything in your last post? You guys are losing it for yourselves with the same old clapped out methods and arguments. It’s almost like you’re debating an entirely different issue, you’re over there in the ether and probably and we’re all here in the real world and factual.
end of the road wrote: » more wishful thinking with no basis in reality. you are obsessed with such wishful thinking and everything you have claimed will lose us the referendum does not stand up to scruteny. the only thing that will lose the referendum for us is there being a greater number who support the availability of being able to kill the unborn on demand and at the tax payer's expence. our arguments are solid and will have no effect on the outcome of the referendum. the pro-choice arguments in relation to the availability of abortion on demand don't stack up and stand up to scruteny, the only real argument they have is they want to be able to have an abortion on demand, which is not an argument ultimately. after all, other people want the right to commit acts that harm or cause the death of others, and rightly they are told no. moralising and lecturing about ‘living with consequences’ and imposing moral superiority is the main basis of a society, via the laws which restrict one's ability to commit acts which bring undue harm upon others or cause the taking of their life. if you don't want moralising and lecturing in relation to these areas, and believe that moralising and lecturing and consiquences have no place in relation to an issue which involves an act that is similar to those which involve the born, then you have to support the removal of the laws which prohibit us from carying out acts that bring undue harm upon others as well as your support for the removal of an act which prohibits the killing of the unborn within the state.
NuMarvel wrote: » I gave my opinion. You're being deliberately provocative, and abortion isn't the killing of another human being. Those are my opinions. As for being responsible for only what we can do, I'd remind you that we have stopped a girl from having an abortion overseas, so clearly we can, or at least could at one point. The issue for anti-repealers isn't that they can't, but that they don't want to in the first place.
Katie Full Leak wrote: » What kind of life is it? I've checked my biology books and its definitely not an orange life!
