Solo (young Han Solo film) spoilers from post 1493

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hN74bOubUug

If you watch the scene play in the film and keep an eye on Obi wan, knowing what we know now, it is almost like Guinness knows the whole story and is portraying by it as Ohi wan being selective about the truth he tells Luke and what he doesn’t tell him. His performance just with his eyes is great.

You’re dead right, we are attaching this to it cos we have benefit of hindsight but damn if it doesn’t play out brilliantly in his performance.

Sad Professor

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

The OT has hidden depths as well, for example this fan re-working of Luke and Ben (using the soundtrack from the amazing and haunting 'The Leftovers') really amplifies what a magnificant performance Alec Guiness put in, but it's sadly largely lost because you tend to be more fixated on Luke and the weapon he's holding, Guinesses excellent performance tends to get lost a bit...more astounding given that he actually somewhat hated his role Star Wars.

But this fan edit really brings it out wonderfully.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hN74bOubUug

Not to take anything away from Guinness (and I'm going to go a bit nerdy here) but that video is a triumph of the Kuleshov effect and Max Richter, the combination of which could probably make anyone seem like a great actor. The viewer is projecting their own emotional reaction to the images and the music onto Guinness. It's a good cinematic effect, but by chopping up his performance I'd argue it's taking away from it. A better way to bring it out would be to cut out all the coverage of Luke and zoom in on Obi-wan in the master shots, but I'm not sure enough of Guinness's performance survived into the final cut for that to work.

TerrorFirmer

I think the only real density in TLJ is within the character of Kylo Ren, but the film itself on the whole is pretty single track despite all the bluster. Not saying that as a criticism necessarily, but just as I see it.

The OT has hidden depths as well, for example this fan re-working of Luke and Ben (using the soundtrack from the amazing and haunting 'The Leftovers') really amplifies what a magnificant performance Alec Guiness put in, but it's sadly largely lost because you tend to be more fixated on Luke and the weapon he's holding, Guinesses excellent performance tends to get lost a bit...more astounding given that he actually somewhat hated his role Star Wars.

But this fan edit really brings it out wonderfully.

Tony EH wrote: »

But, every Star Wars film has a lot going on.

Yeah but maybe in the editing and storytelling the OT at least feels like it has a lot more room to breath and much simpler narratives and all our focus on the two main storylines. For example Luke’s over here training with Yoda. Han and Leia are over here On bespin. That’s it. TLJ you have what, 4 or 5 different storylines happening? It’s a lot to take in and it could be argued a simpler slender story focusing on only one or two characters would be better. TFA was really simple like this too.

But, every Star Wars film has a lot going on.

Do I have to clarify I meant dense as in really busy and a lot goin on and not the other meaning stupid/dumb

If you don’t think the last Jedi was dense we definitely are talking about different films

and I say that as a fan.

Tony EH wrote: »

Exactly, I don't see anything at all that's dense or complex about Star Wars films, especially 'The Last Jedi'.

Seriously though, would you like 2 hours of Kenobi and *.* in Mos Eisley talking on a philosophical topics?

Here is my pitch for the Obi-Wan film (if there has to be one):

A relic hunter and historian manages to track down a man called Old Ben on Tatooine. As Old Ben is 'old', the historian wants to ask him if he knows anything about the two Jedi who visited here decades ago as he is trying to chronicle the history of the Jedi Order. Ben, intrigued by the idea, and perhaps sees the value in retaining an accurate history of what the Jedi stood for (particularly with the Sith and Empire doing their utmost to rid the galaxy of any remnants of the Jedi Order), agrees to chat with the chronicler. Ben tells the story of an older Jedi Knight called Obi-Wan Kenobi who once came to the planet during a rescue mission for a Queen from the planet of Naboo. However, Ben says that story has been told before and would rather tell the man the story of how the Jedi will return. Then begins the tale of Obi-Wan Kenobi and his mission to find the last of the Jedi Order after leaving Luke with Uncle Owen and Aunt Lars. Although he doesn't find any Jedi (and chooses to avoid going anywhere near Dagobah for fear of leading the Empire to Yoda), he decides to find the origins of the Sith, where they came from, who they are, their purpose, and in return, discovers how the Sith and Jedi were once the same order, divided by a civil war over their role in the galaxy.

This can be told in a similar fashion to The Usual Suspects.

Falthyron wrote: »

The most 'dense' thing about The Last Jedi is Leia's spacewalk. I can not, for the life of me, understand how and why someone signed-off on that scene. :pac:

It's because Kathleen wanted it.

Falthyron wrote: »

:pac:

Nothing, really. Action supersedes storytelling in Star Wars (the hint is in the latter word of the franchise's title), so things have to move swiftly, which doesn't allow for complex plot lines, motives, character development to simmer.

Give me a 'My Dinner with Andre' style Star Wars film featuring Obi-Wan and someone else. Now, THAT, would be interesting.

Exactly, I don't see anything at all that's dense or complex about Star Wars films, especially 'The Last Jedi'.

Seriously though, would you like 2 hours of Kenobi and *.* in Mos Eisley talking on a philosophical topics?

Falthyron wrote: »

The most 'dense' thing about The Last Jedi is Leia's spacewalk. I can not, for the life of me, understand how and why someone signed-off on that scene. :pac:

So you’ve said. I was referring to the narrative. Every single character has an arc and something to do. The plot is very thick. Maybe too much going on where with fewer main characters it could have focused on them rather than everyone getting screen time. Rogue one was even worse for this. Way too many main characters and no time to develop any of them. But at least they all had one mission / one goal. TLJ has every character on a different story thread. And they all fail in their assigned missions / stories.
Chewie doesn’t even get to eat the porg.

david75 wrote: »

The Last Jedi is especially dense. More than any other Star Wars film. Weird contrast to TFA which flies along.

The most 'dense' thing about The Last Jedi is Leia's spacewalk. I can not, for the life of me, understand how and why someone signed-off on that scene. :pac:

Tony EH wrote: »

What's "dense" about any Star Wars film?

The Last Jedi is especially dense. More than any other Star Wars film. Weird contrast to TFA which flies along.

J Mysterio

Tony EH wrote: »

Can't say I know too much about the lad. "Good" actor, i don't know. I've only seen him in a couple of things and he didn't stand out for me.

But, that poster that's floating around. On it, he looks like some lame ass R+B star, or one of those mickey mouse "rappers". The type with no balls that Ice Cube or Chuck D would hate.

Ice Cube lost his balls long ago.

Tony EH wrote: »

What's "dense" about any Star Wars film?

:pac:

Nothing, really. Action supersedes storytelling in Star Wars (the hint is in the latter word of the franchise's title), so things have to move swiftly, which doesn't allow for complex plot lines, motives, character development to simmer.

Give me a 'My Dinner with Andre' style Star Wars film featuring Obi-Wan and someone else. Now, THAT, would be interesting.

What's "dense" about any Star Wars film?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHOLFZnFa0w

HAha. Which one of the prequels is he talking about I wonder?
I’d say ROTS is probably the most dense storywise.
Dense isn’t a bad thing imo. But the OT wasn’t dense at any point I don’t think. It’s bright and breezy almost and moves along at a great pace. Even when It’s being heavy/darker.
I guess storytelling in cinema has changed too. People expect more and the messages are a little too upfront in TLJ. You’d never guess at this remove that the OT was packed with allegory about Vietnam but TLJ fairly hits you over the head with it’s poking at the 1% and those profiting off war.

I wonder will that be obvious at all in a decade or so and we look back.

pixelburp

david75 wrote: »

[...]
It’s really dense. Probably a bit too dense. No way to convey that in a trailer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsdvhJTqLak

The interviews with all the cast of TLJ in the run up to release was really priming us to be prepared as it was unexpected and very different etc. Hamill Ridley and Boyega particularly seemed to have the same experience of it as fans did. The Early interviews you could see them being how do I promote this when it’s after knocking me sideways to later interviews where they’re onboard with it

Boyega particularly spoke about this in interviews after he’d seen it a couple of times. Total change in his take on it.

If you look back now at the TFA trailers you can see it gives you the main beats of the film without giving you any plot details really at all. Hindsight is 20/20 as always.
But for TLJ you couldn’t guess at all what was going to happen. Well I couldn’t anyways. Loads of visual stuff but no hint at all towards all the stories involved.
It’s not unusual for characters in Star Wars to have separate storylines within the film. But TLJ has so many more than usual. Every single character has an arc.
It’s really dense. Probably a bit too dense. No way to convey that in a trailer.

Sad Professor

In some cases I think the failure to reveal enough of the plot in trailers can have negative consequences. BR2049's atmospheric trailers apparently didn't give non-BR fans anything to latch onto. The movie is actually quite plot-heavy compared to the original. They should have played this up in the trailers.

I'd also argue that TLJ would have gone down a lot better if fans had time to come to terms with the fact that the film wasn't going to satisfy their theories and that certain characters were going to die. TFA's whole plot was online what, a year before the film came out? The details of Han's death, Kylo being a Solo, etc were well known. Where as we knew practically nothing about large parts of TLJ until 48 hours before release which is when the backlash started.

Online fan culture is very focused on plot and lore and I think it's probably better if these things are heavily hinted at in marketing or leaked in advance.

pixelburp

Tony EH wrote: »

I remember the days when you'd get one trailer a month before the picture came out. There might be one or two "TV spots" and that was it.

Maybe Disney are going back to that model?

It would certainly be better than what we have today usually, which is several trailers that practically tell the whole bloody film and kinda make it imperative that you avoid them as not to ruin it, if you do actually haul your arse to the cinema to see it.

To be fair, you're talking about a time when the scope for trailers were the half-dozen channels on TV, channels that weren't even 24/7 in some cases. The landscape has changed and IMO while yeah there's a definite uptick in the volume of promos per movie, it's only parallel to the increase in media we can consume these promotions.

I also don't buy this idea of the modern trailer revealing everything: trailers have been little potted summaries for decades - and if anything, they've become a little better at at least keeping something to themselves. Obviously the rule of generalisations apply here, but if you watch some classic trailers, aside from often being longer than modern equivalents, they often show the whole plot beats of films - without even trying to be canny editors and snip for brevity. Here's The Graduate:

Or Goldfinger, featuring some extended moments from key / noteworthy scenes (and is also fabulously cheesy in its own right!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MA65V-oLKa8

TLJ has 7 showings in cineworld tomorrow. Maybe smaller cinemas are pulling it but it wouldn’t have 7 showings in the biggest cinema in town at all if it were doing poorly.

I’m shocked it’s still 7 at this point. And on a Monday. It’s clearly still making money. And the backlash has visibly died down too.

Multiquote mayhem!!!! Sorry F, it's been remedied.

TLJ's flaws have put off a lot of people. Disney can't ride the wave of nostalgia they had with TFA. Mainly, becasue they've pissed all over that nostalgia and it hasn't gone down well.

It's an average film, nicely shot, but sloppily made, poorly plotted and open to a lot of obvious questions that hit the viewer while they're watching it. It's also hampered by a seriously dragging mid section on Canto Bight that seems universally hated.

That kind of WOM gets around.

In saying that. I don't think TLJ has done that bad at the cinema, in a length of service kind of way. It just doesn't have that "memberberry" good will that TFA had.

Tony EH wrote: »

There's four months to go. Plenty of time. Chill.

I didn't say that!

Tbf, I am noticing that the cinemas in Ireland have started to severely reduce their showings of TLJ. IIRC, TFA was still showing in late February, possibly even early March. Perhaps the demand for TLJ isn't there, or else maybe Disney are happy to start phasing TLJ out so they can bring Solo in. I reckon we will definitely have a Solo trailer for the Superbowl. Its their best opportunity to get as much publicity for a film that isn't expected to do as well as its predecessors.

Falthyron wrote: »

Tbf, given the problems Solo has experienced, Disney probably don't want to put out a trailer featuring scenes that won't make an appearance in the final cut. I reckon Solo is still very much in editing mode.

For example, go to 1:27 and you will see Rey running with sabre in hand - a scene that didn't appear in TLJ. Less of that please.

david75 wrote: »

I hate trailers give you everything in the film. It’s worse when they show you an entirely different film than the one you get.

Yeh, I'd say that Disney are sick of the bad press (unnecessary too) that they've been getting, due to reshoots and stuff in trailers that don't appear in the final film.

I can certainly understand irritation with the latter, as a brilliant scene could be in a trailer - the TIE fighter/Jyn Erso face off in 'Rogue One' - that whets a viewer's appetite, yet is nowhere to be seen in the flippin movie.

david75 wrote: »

But to put none out at all is just bananas.

There's four months to go. Plenty of time. Chill.

I hate trailers give you everything in the film. It’s worse when they show you an entirely different film than the one you get.

But to put none out at all is just bananas. Lucasfilm aren’t pitching to us hardcore fans. They’re pitching as always to the general public. And I know that you need to have a small army of trailers with well timed release to make them aware then build up interest then make it excitement. Hardcore fans are gonna go anyways. Trailers aren’t built or directed at or for us.

But coming this close to release with no trailer for a film that’s going to battling with averngers infinity war and others at the box office , is just insane.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB4I68XVPzQ

pixelburp wrote: »

Disney are no mugs and surely know what they're doing, but equally a blockbuster film only 5 months off without a single trailer or promo is just weird. Practically unheard of. Perhaps there's already a touch of Star Wars hubris going on here, presuming that the sheer power of the brand + the presence of Solo will drive enough interest and they can hold off a trailer til this late in the production cycle. It's scarcely the first blockbuster to have reshoots, so it's at the point where I don't buy that as an excuse tbh.

Tbf, given the problems Solo has experienced, Disney probably don't want to put out a trailer featuring scenes that won't make an appearance in the final cut. I reckon Solo is still very much in editing mode.

For example, go to 1:27 and you will see Rey running with sabre in hand - a scene that didn't appear in TLJ. Less of that please.

I remember the days when you'd get one trailer a month before the picture came out. There might be one or two "TV spots" and that was it.

Maybe Disney are going back to that model?

It would certainly be better than what we have today usually, which is several trailers that practically tell the whole bloody film and kinda make it imperative that you avoid them as not to ruin it, if you do actually haul your arse to the cinema to see it.

pixelburp

Disney are no mugs and surely know what they're doing, but equally a blockbuster film only 5 months off without a single trailer or promo is just weird. Practically unheard of. Perhaps there's already a touch of Star Wars hubris going on here, presuming that the sheer power of the brand + the presence of Solo will drive enough interest and they can hold off a trailer til this late in the production cycle. It's scarcely the first blockbuster to have reshoots, so it's at the point where I don't buy that as an excuse tbh.

Slydice

I think David75 would like a trailer