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The slow death of forums see OP for Admin warning and update 28/02/18

TheAnalyst_

I find it incredible that when web traffic is consistently increasing along with participation rates that forums like boards are suffering huge falls in visitors.

CSO
Households with access to the internet
% of households
2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017
72 78 81 82 82 85 87 89

We've seen a 44% fall in posts on boards since 2011. It looks to be a terminal decline at this stage so I suppose we can enjoy the next few years before it gets shut down for good. Or is it possible that something can be done to turn it around?

boards total posts per year
2017 3,123,577
2016 3,348,994
2015 4,048,985
2014 4,748,112
2013 4,935,597
2012 5,308,684
2011 5,618,076
2010 5,330,972
2009 4,610,143

EDIT: Admin warning added 01/01/18

Beasty wrote: »

Just a word of warning here. Points have been made from both sides about the most recent closure in AH. I do not think there is anything more to say on that example, so let's leave it there.

If anyone thinks they have anything new to add on this particular point, please PM me

Thanks

Update 16/01/18
Please see post 1796 for Admin update and proposals to take some of these suggestions forward

Update 28/02/18
Please see post 2156 for Admin update following re-opening of thread

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Fr_Dougal

Conspectus wrote: »

A mentor program might be something worth exploring.
Members of long standing sign up to be mentors to new users. When a new person signs up they can pick a box to take a mentor. If they tick they get randomly assigned a mentor whom they can pm for help.

Mentors would have their own forum with access for them and admins only. Mods of forums could be given access to help on a case by case basis.

Beasty

I don't think the mentor idea is a bad idea in principle, but do wonder about its practicalities

An alternative thought I would have would be to encourage new posters to perhaps drop a line to a local mod who can given them a bit of guidance on posting in a particular forum. Equally I don't think it would work in very popular forums like AH, but some of the smaller specialist forums would benefit from a welcoming note from a mod (who probably does not have a great deal to do in terms of other modding tasks). It's not something I would look to impose, but perhaps encourage. Maybe some of the charters can have an extra "welcome to new posters" note.

GreeBo

Beasty wrote: »

I don't think the mentor idea is a bad idea in principle, but do wonder about its practicalities

An alternative thought I would have would be to encourage new posters to perhaps drop a line to a local mod who can given them a bit of guidance on posting in a particular forum. Equally I don't think it would work in very popular forums like AH, but some of the smaller specialist forums would benefit from a welcoming note from a mod (who probably does not have a great deal to do in terms of other modding tasks). It's not something I would look to impose, but perhaps encourage. Maybe some of the charters can have an extra "welcome to new posters" note.

Wonder would it be possible to make all forums Access Request only, but that requests are automatically granted?

That way mods could get lists of names of people who are interested in posting in their forum and perhaps drop them a welcome note?

Calahonda52

CruelCoin wrote: »

Mentor programs are proven winners in areas where new-user retention is poor.

Eve Online as a game for example has a terrible new player experience, and ever since the introduction of the mentor program, retention has shot up.

Some people just like helping and supporting the activity they enjoy.

It's horses for courses
many of the subforms work very well on this "like helping" basis.

What this thread is about, primarily, is the discussion type subforms where folk do everything from spleen venting to downright libellous racist, misogynistice, etc etc carry on.

Tell me how

GreeBo wrote:

That way mods could get lists of names of people who are interested in posting in their forum and perhaps drop them a welcome note?

Excessive work for mods I think.

This is real life (of sorts). Ask a question if you have it, if not, live and let live and if someone points something out to you, take it on board.

If something has to be done. Every forum has a charter already, maybe edit those to be more receptive for new users and have access granted after it has been read.

GreeBo

Tell me how wrote: »

Excessive work for mods I think.

This is real life (of sorts). Ask a question if you have it, if not, live and let live and if someone points something out to you, take it on board.

If something has to be done. Every forum has a charter already, maybe edit those to be more receptive for new users and have access granted after it has been read.

Mods dont have to welcome new users, but would at least be alerted to an influx of new people. In fact you could have a forum specific welcome message automatically sent to users with links to charter/stickies etc.

It would be more geared towards the niche forums rather than generic AH/politics type.

Tell me how wrote: »

This is real life (of sorts). Ask a question if you have it, if not, live and let live and if someone points something out to you, take it on board.

Anonymity makes it not real life at all.

Beasty

GreeBo wrote: »

Wonder would it be possible to make all forums Access Request only, but that requests are automatically granted?

That way mods could get lists of names of people who are interested in posting in their forum and perhaps drop them a welcome note?

My concern would be that some people may run a mile at the prospect of receiving an "automatic" PM from a stranger simply for registering an interest in a topic.

I think though that a general welcoming note and an invitation to contact a mod if they have any questions or would like guidance on posting would hopefully encourage more to engage with the mods. Hopefully that also results in less requirement to intervene in a formal manner. It personalises things in a way that should improve overall interaction in a forum. You are more likely to contribute in a positive manner if you've had that personal interaction with an "official" within the forum

retro:electro

Do new posters want to be mentored though? TBH I think that's an implementation that's likely to turn a lot of potential new posters away from registering. It sounds a bit, patronising?

[Deleted User]

anna080 wrote: »

Do new posters want to be mentored though? TBH I think that's an implementation that's likely to turn a lot of potential new posters away from registering. It sounds a bit, patronising?

It totally does, and I would have turned away immediately.

It's a bit insulting to suggest people might need mentoring and guidance...to post on a forum! It's not homework or a training scheme.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Beasty wrote: »

I don't think the mentor idea is a bad idea in principle, but do wonder about its practicalities

An alternative thought I would have would be to encourage new posters to perhaps drop a line to a local mod who can given them a bit of guidance on posting in a particular forum. Equally I don't think it would work in very popular forums like AH, but some of the smaller specialist forums would benefit from a welcoming note from a mod (who probably does not have a great deal to do in terms of other modding tasks). It's not something I would look to impose, but perhaps encourage. Maybe some of the charters can have an extra "welcome to new posters" note.

F&F have a welcome sticky for new posters and returning older posters...

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057259215

I don't know if it helps retention rates or not, tbh, but newer posters can post their info there and get a welcome from established members and if they ask for information, posters will already be somewhat familiar with their farm and system before replying.

Pintman Paddy Losty

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

F&F have a welcome sticky for new posters and returning older posters...

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057259215

I don't know if it helps retention rates or not, tbh, but newer posters can post their info there and get a welcome from established members and if they ask for information, posters will already be somewhat familiar with their farm and system before replying.

To be fair F&F seems to be a very well run forum.

I'd put it down to the mods being active in the community and letting discussions flow. A lot of the threads seem to be general chat, which is what makes a good forum in my opinion.

It's when you have forum mods stringently enforcing rules and worrying about 'the standard of posting' or 'off-topic chat' or being concerned about a thread being 'de-railed' that you end up smothering discussion and the forum dies a death.

Boards.ie: Mark

We've tried to make the site more open to new users (and I'm sure more could be done) with things like lowering the restriction on posting links and images. So we are trying to avoid restricting content and features where possible. The mentoring is an interesting idea, but it could be an issue of practicalities.

Revisiting the Private Message that users get when they join is something that we can look at. There's also a notice that tells new users (displayed until they have 5 posts or dismiss it - perhaps we should increase that limit a little, but still have it dismissable) about a couple of different forums and links. I will add a link to Private Message me or e-mail the office if they have questions about how the site / a certain forum works - can extend this to mods and Admins too.

Here is what it currently says (as most of you will have no way to readily check it; there are links to the various forums, but ye know how to get to them. I have, however, added the hyperlink to the full index of topics here just in case it's useful to any of ye):

Welcome to Boards.ie; here are some tips and tricks to help you get started.

Boards.ie is a discussion board with a wide range of forums, including - but not limited to - Soccer, Weather, Bargain Alerts, Fitness, Motors, Farming & Forestry, Cycling, Fashion & Appearance, Politics, Food & Drink, and everything in between. There's also After Hours, one of the busier forums on Boards.ie, which takes a more lighthearted approach to many topics. The drop down menu at the top will help you find a topic of interest or you can browse the full index of Topics.

So, what are you waiting for? Get out there and share your passion with others! If you have any questions about the site, head over to the Newbies & FAQ forum. Remember, you may not agree with everything you read (and people may not agree with your viewpoint), but you can talk it out as long as you attack the post and not the poster.

Useful Links:
• Top 10 Questions and Answers for new Boards.ie users
• How to start a thread
• FAQ for everything after the basics
• Boards.ie Guidelines

Buford T. Justice XIX

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

To be fair F&F seems to be a very well run forum.

I'd put it down to the mods being active in the community and letting discussions flow. A lot of the threads seem to be general chat, which is what makes a good forum in my opinion.

It's when you have forum mods stringently enforcing rules and worrying about 'the standard of posting' or 'off-topic chat' or being concerned about a thread being 'de-railed' that you end up smothering discussion and the forum dies a death.

F&F has a solid community there which doesn't happen without the posters buying into the community ethos, though.

That's not to say there aren't arguments or posters disliking each other but the other posters, in fairness to them, sort out a lot of the issues there themselves before mods would need to get involved.

We would rarely have to come down hard on posters who flout the rules as the lack of interaction from other posters would move them on fairly quickly anyway.

But I would guess the average age profile would be older than for a lot of the other forums also.

Beasty

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

But I would guess the average age profile would be older than for a lot of the other forums also.

You said it Grandad :pac:

Neyite

anna080 wrote: »

Do new posters want to be mentored though? TBH I think that's an implementation that's likely to turn a lot of potential new posters away from registering. It sounds a bit, patronising?

When I was a new user, I wanted to lurk a bit before I joined in discussions. Welcoming new posters is a bit like the on-line equivalent of going into a shop and a shop assistant immediately swooping down on you and asking if they can help you with anything. Personally I hate that and it usually makes me leave a shop faster!

I think mentoring for new mods is a good idea though. When I joined PI as a newbie mod in 2012, the mod team were brilliant mentors to me, and I think it helped us be consistent as a team - and that's fairer on the users too.

A few years ago we also had a look at our charter and updated it. Some of the stuff was legacy stuff there as a rule but newer mods had no idea why it was in the charter. So revisiting the charter, talking it through and making it relevant to today's userbase helped us understand better.

We also took a look at how we as mods worded our mod warnings, how we use tone - or rather, look at how that tone comes across and made more of an effort to use less bold, be friendlier and less authoritarian in our mod on thread warnings, and it's worked very well in PI.

So I'd like to see mod workshops like that for more forums. Kind of standing back and looking at the forum with fresh eyes, drawing on what the users are telling you. Look at what you do well, look at what you don't. Look at other forums who's mods do a good job/ where users enjoy the forum and see if any methods or practices could be adopted to benefit your forum.

Mods are the janitors of forums really. Our job is to make the place welcoming, clean up messes, put things in the right place and ticking over for the users with the odd nudge to the person who forgets to wipe their feet.

Ken.

I did say their would be a box to tick. I'm just thinking of when my daughter signed up 2 years ago to browse the leaving cert forum. She would have been lost if I didn't give her a hand.

GreeBo

Conspectus wrote: »

I did say their would be a box to tick. I'm just thinking of when my daughter signed up 2 years ago to browse the leaving cert forum. She would have been lost if I didn't give her a hand.

+1

you only have to see the number of posts like "Hi, I need advice on buying a car" that have been posted in AH or Rugby or somewhere random.

In the beginning its *not* obvious where to post.

Neyite

GreeBo wrote: »

+1

you only have to see the number of posts like "Hi, I need advice on buying a car" that have been posted in AH or Rugby or somewhere random.

In the beginning its *not* obvious where to post.

Ok but that's easily solved with this:

Mod:
Hi Op, I've moved your thread to a place where you should get better answers to your question

Or even the users could be nice and reply to the newbie that they posted in a rugby forum and while they are welcome to stay if they are also a rugby fan, that [insert link] is a better forum for their query.

In short, we could all help a newbie find their feet as a poster.

Wearb

My input: Keep post count, and charters. They both help with modding.

I don't think prison should be public. Troublemakers are learning how to re-reg from info there. I have also noticed the nice appeasing and well mannered appeals, ending in "it's no wonder Boards is going down the drain", when a ban is upheld.

My two cents worth.

Wearb

Wearb wrote: »

My input: Keep post count, and charters. They both help with modding.

I don't think prison should be public. Troublemakers are learning how to re-reg from info there. I have also noticed the nice appeasing and well mannered appeals, ending in "it's no wonder Boards is going down the drain", when a ban is upheld.

My two cents worth.

I would also like a reduction to to the time restriction allowed for editing posts. Also edited posts should have something very clear to show that the post has been edited.
Ideally. I would like it removed altogether and a (charter) suggestion that the best way to edit a post is for the poster to reply to their own post. This means that the post is in the newer part of the thread.
Otherwise posters would need to read back all posts under 48 hours ago to keep up to date with all changes.

EDITED to remove my signiture. :pac::pac::pac:

GreeBo

Wearb wrote: »

My input: Keep post count, and charters. They both help with modding.
.

How does post count help with modding, other than encouraging playing favorites?

[Deleted User]

Wearb wrote: »

I don't think prison should be public. Troublemakers are learning how to re-reg from info there. I have also noticed the nice appeasing and well mannered appeals, ending in "it's no wonder Boards is going down the drain", when a ban is upheld.

My two cents worth.

The Zaph comments and those of some other admins were priceless through the years- it used to be some of the best entertainment on boards.

Insect Overlord

Deleted User wrote: »

The Zaph comments and those of some other admins were priceless through the years- it used to be some of the best entertainment on boards.

You'd certainly miss Gordon around here.

Wearb

GreeBo wrote: »

How does post count help with modding, other than encouraging playing favorites?

I would expect more tolerance to be shown to someone their first few posts.

GreeBo

Wearb wrote: »

I would expect more tolerance to be shown to someone their first few posts.

I guess you could use join date for that, but I take the point.

Maybe just something to distinguish between them?
One, many, lots.

_Kaiser_

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

To be fair F&F seems to be a very well run forum.

I'd put it down to the mods being active in the community and letting discussions flow. A lot of the threads seem to be general chat, which is what makes a good forum in my opinion.

It's when you have forum mods stringently enforcing rules and worrying about 'the standard of posting' or 'off-topic chat' or being concerned about a thread being 'de-railed' that you end up smothering discussion and the forum dies a death.

I wholeheartedly agree with this... wish I could thank it more than once.

It's a discussion forum, and as others have pointed out, a discussion may naturally flow into sub-topics, asides or related matters as it develops. It keeps the topic fresh, allows contributors to add an element they may be specifically familiar with and overall it creates a better sense of involvement and community.

There's certain fora on this site where there are Mods (well-intentioned for the most part I'm sure in fairness) who are slowly killing their forum through actions like the above (I don't want to give specific examples but it was called out on a thread I read earlier and I was amazed that the poster wasn't immediately banned TBH).

I've said this before, but some people (posters and mods alike) really need to step back and THINK about the effect they might have BEFORE they hit Submit.

whavin

I'm a football fan but yet I couldn't comment unless I had made 50 posts elsewhere, to protect against trolling I guess but that just put me off making the effort. Boards is fantastic btw, it's a great place to come to read into Irish psyche, no other website from what I discovered gives you that. Long live boards! you don't get many thanks around here but Thanks for you efforts!

Nyum Nyum

Sometimes you should probably take this all a bit less seriously (apart from potential legal issues obviously). It's an internet forum, not a court of law eg people posting "Full disclosure" and all that nonsense at the start of posts.

Also give it a rest with the warnings for trivial matters.

Tell me how

Nyum Nyum wrote: »

Also give it a rest with the warnings for trivial matters.

It's the interpretation of this word which is where it becomes difficult.

Some people think saying something quite inflammatory is "trivial" because they think everyone is saying it privately.

The difference in opinions is what both keeps discussions going and makes them hard to mod.

devnull

Neyite wrote: »

Ok but that's easily solved with this:

Mod:
Hi Op, I've moved your thread to a place where you should get better answers to your question

Or even the users could be nice and reply to the newbie that they posted in a rugby forum and while they are welcome to stay if they are also a rugby fan, that [insert link] is a better forum for their query.

In short, we could all help a newbie find their feet as a poster.

I always try and do that as well if I move a post - Often in C+T we get people posting in the Bus Enthusiasts or Train and Rail Systems forums when they're better suited in the main forum that will give them more viability.

What tends to work best is dropping them a friendly PM, welcoming them to the forum if they're a new member and giving them a link to the thread and the forum it has been moved to so they can find it and saying I think they're more likely to get the assistance they are looking for then and feel free to let me know if they have any questions

I've often then got follow-ups with issues about using the site and the forum and explained a few things to them so it's a process I think works - it's not really mentoring but simply a friendly welcoming approach.