Water John wrote: » Is there an alternative Constitutional Article being proposed for Art 8? I don't think so, Boulevardier. The Constitution simply reverts to pre 1980.
NuMarvel wrote: » I really can't see the Oireachtas going further than the Committee's recommendations. I wouldn't be surprised if there were attempts to be step back from some of them.
end of the road wrote: » i haven't made an argument for abortion on demand at all, i have made one against it. we could only save money by stripping away the services afterwords, abortion itself wouldn't bring savings as the costs from what i can find seem to be hugely under-estimated. essentially your point is looking for a problem for abortion on demand to be the solution.
pilly wrote: How many times do I have to post simple maths lessons here 1 abortion costs less than 10 months maternity care. Simples What is confusing you about this?
Boulevardier wrote: » Yes, but a constitutional provision which explicitly gives the Oireachtas sole powers over abortion is still tantamount to a declaration that there can be no unenumerated or implied rights in the constitution for any unborn, including late-stage unborn. My own position on unborn rights is that where a woman's right to life and those of an unborn conflict, the woman must always come first. However, that does not mean that a late-term unborn should be left without rights of any kind.
pilly wrote: » I see where you're coming from but to me that simply means that when it's repealed then the Oireachtas comes up with the legislation, this makes sense to me. I trust them enough to not all of sudden throw in a curve ball and legislate for abortion up to 30 week or something. All the indications are that it will be 12 weeks and that's fine by me.
Boulevardier wrote: » However, if that Oireachtas-only provision is put in, surely it would be tantamount to declaring that there is no right to life anywhere in the constitution for any unborn,
Boulevardier wrote: » One of the options for repeal is to insert an article in the constitution saying that only the Oireachtas can decide on abortion. The idea behind this seems to be to head off any rights which may be given by future court action to the unborn based on other parts of the constitution, or from unenumerated rights. However, if that Oireachtas-only provision is put in, surely it would be tantamount to declaring that there is no right to life anywhere in the constitution for any unborn, even late-term unborn? If so, perhaps that is going too far in the other direction from where things are now? PS I favour simple repeal.
Billy86 wrote: » That doesn't fly and if anything you've made an argument in favour of providing for abortions on public healthcare as we would wind up saving an absolute rake of money on social services with this. Far, far, far more than the cost of of an abortion, which apparently ranges from about €500-€1,600.https://www.mariestopes.ie/abortion-care/how-much-does-an-abortion-cost/
end of the road wrote: » that's not a solution, as in turn the systems we have will highly likely see less money as the belief will be that people can just have an abortion.
Oldtree wrote: » Peadar Tóibín, Sinn Féin, was just on Newstalk this morning and does not want the 8th repealed, and is going against his parties line, but can continue to be a member of the party provided he states the party line in interviews. He stated that no woman had died due to the 8th. The Committee on the 8th Amendment was told the amendment undoubtedly contributed to the death of Savita Halappanavar at UHG, by Prof Sir Sabar Arul, the then incoming President of the British Medical Association and author of the report into Savita’s death. I find it incredulous that Peadar not heard of Savita Halappanavar?
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end of the road wrote: » i'm not being disingenuous at all. i don't believe they are being forced to go abroad for the abortion, they are choosing to do it as they wish to have an abortion. nobody is holding a gun to their head.
