end of the road wrote: » again this is false, my reasons for being against the killing of the unborn outside extreme circumstances is that it is wrong.
end of the road wrote: » i have been clear in my position through the thread in relation to my views including the travel bann, and have not changed it.
end of the road wrote: » no matter how much people twist my posts in an aim to make out i don't trust women, they are inaccurate and always will be. i trust women, i simply disagree with abortion on demand being availible in ireland.
end of the road wrote: » i would still be happy to see money spent on those treatments over abortion on demand, as they will likely benefit society compared to abortion on demand, which doesn't benefit society.
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NuMarvel wrote: » And you presumably think it's as equally wrong outside Ireland as it would be within Ireland, yet you'd vote to keep the provision that puts the freedom to travel above our constitutional ban on abortion. This is not the decision of someone who thinks abortion is wrong. It's NIMBYism.
NuMarvel wrote: » The only thing that's been clear about your views on the travel ban is that they're keep changing.
NuMarvel wrote: » People aren't twisting your posts. Please are reading them for what they are.
NuMarvel wrote: » I think not subjecting women to the risks of travelling to another jurisdiction for a procedure that could be easily carried here benefits society. Even someone steadfastly opposed to abortion can surely see it's better that women who have abortions should have safer ones.
NuMarvel wrote: » And as has been pointed out before, concerns that offering abortions would take resources away from other services are unfounded because pregnant women will be accessing our health service whether they have an abortion or not.
end of the road wrote: » incorrect, they haven't changed. i just have a multitude of reasons for my view on it..
end of the road wrote: » i'm not being disingenuous at all. i don't believe they are being forced to go abroad for the abortion, they are choosing to do it as they wish to have an abortion. nobody is holding a gun to their head.
Oldtree wrote: » Peadar Tóibín, Sinn Féin, was just on Newstalk this morning and does not want the 8th repealed, and is going against his parties line, but can continue to be a member of the party provided he states the party line in interviews. He stated that no woman had died due to the 8th. The Committee on the 8th Amendment was told the amendment undoubtedly contributed to the death of Savita Halappanavar at UHG, by Prof Sir Sabar Arul, the then incoming President of the British Medical Association and author of the report into Savita’s death. I find it incredulous that Peadar not heard of Savita Halappanavar?
end of the road wrote: » that's not a solution, as in turn the systems we have will highly likely see less money as the belief will be that people can just have an abortion.
Billy86 wrote: » That doesn't fly and if anything you've made an argument in favour of providing for abortions on public healthcare as we would wind up saving an absolute rake of money on social services with this. Far, far, far more than the cost of of an abortion, which apparently ranges from about €500-€1,600.https://www.mariestopes.ie/abortion-care/how-much-does-an-abortion-cost/
Boulevardier wrote: » One of the options for repeal is to insert an article in the constitution saying that only the Oireachtas can decide on abortion. The idea behind this seems to be to head off any rights which may be given by future court action to the unborn based on other parts of the constitution, or from unenumerated rights. However, if that Oireachtas-only provision is put in, surely it would be tantamount to declaring that there is no right to life anywhere in the constitution for any unborn, even late-term unborn? If so, perhaps that is going too far in the other direction from where things are now? PS I favour simple repeal.
end of the road wrote: » i haven't made an argument for abortion on demand at all, i have made one against it. we could only save money by stripping away the services afterwords, abortion itself wouldn't bring savings as the costs from what i can find seem to be hugely under-estimated. essentially your point is looking for a problem for abortion on demand to be the solution.
Boulevardier wrote: » However, if that Oireachtas-only provision is put in, surely it would be tantamount to declaring that there is no right to life anywhere in the constitution for any unborn,
pilly wrote: » I see where you're coming from but to me that simply means that when it's repealed then the Oireachtas comes up with the legislation, this makes sense to me. I trust them enough to not all of sudden throw in a curve ball and legislate for abortion up to 30 week or something. All the indications are that it will be 12 weeks and that's fine by me.
