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Can a Christian vote for unlimited abortion?

J C

I don't believe that a Christian can morally vote for unlimited abortion.

The Sixth Commandment is very simple and very clear ... 'Thou shalt not kill'.

It means that you cannot kill yourself or another Human Being, except in self defence (or the defence of another Human Being) where no other option is available.
This is the basis for all laws protecting the person and criminalising the killing of other people in Common Law Jurisprudence.

Induced abortion is ethically and morally wrong ... except where the life of the mother is directly threatened and there is no other option available to save her.

This is the current law in Ireland.

Voting to expand Irish Law to allow the unlimited killing of unborn children is not something that any Christian (or other monotheist, indeed) can do in conscience and in clear contravention of the Sixth Commandment of God.

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ouxbbkqtswdfaw

Gerry T wrote:

No their not. They were written by men. The bibles were written by men, hundreds of yrs after jesus was here. Ever notice how miracles were plentifully back in the day, but since the age of photography they seem to have stopped!

The Catholic Church is the one true Church founded by Christ for the salvation of the world.

ouxbbkqtswdfaw

SuperSean11 wrote:

But why?

Because He is your Lord and Saviour.

ouxbbkqtswdfaw

If they vote for the death penalty, they are not Christian.

YFlyer

fkx2nspcw9omhg wrote: »

Christians cannot vote for the death penalty.

I give you the USA.

end of the road

NinetyTwoTeam wrote: »

That's a CGI cartoon, you know. And the bold type now with underlining AND exclamation points!!! This kind of carry on is why most pro lifers are assumed to be ridiculous nutters.

Have you raised a down syndrome child, who probably will need your care even well into adulthood? Who may never be able to work or find a mate? If not, then you have no clue how hard it is, and no right to force that on anyone.

no, but he does have the right to vote against removing legislation that would allow the killing of the unborn within the state without good reason or question. the unborn have a right to life and to live.

SuperSean11

mach1982 wrote: »

I stand corrected, Animals do have souls but they not immortal ones like ours.

see https://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/pets_in_heaven.htm

So it should be "Thou shalt not kill anything with an immortal soul"

It says that the church doesn’t address the topic of animals souls, it’s just the writer waffling on

NinetyTwoTeam

J C wrote: »

I'm very real .. and the immediate deaths of beautiful innocent 12 week unborn children exactly like this will be the result of a vote to remove the 8th.

This isn't a child with any disease (not that this should be a reason to kill her anyway).
The welfare of the mother is a 'red herring' ... modern medicine can take care of the health of all pregnant women ... and if there is a risk to her life ... abortion is already available in Ireland to prevent that.

... and there is a programme running now on RTE 1 TV on Downs Syndrome testing in the UK ... where 90% of unborn children diagnosed with Downs Syndrome are aborted ... in Iceland the figure is 100%.
Legally in the UK, a Downs Syndrome child can be killed right up to birth.

Horrendous and outrageous !!!

That's a CGI cartoon, you know. And the bold type now with underlining AND exclamation points!!! This kind of carry on is why most pro lifers are assumed to be ridiculous nutters.

Have you raised a down syndrome child, who probably will need your care even well into adulthood? Who may never be able to work or find a mate? If not, then you have no clue how hard it is, and no right to force that on anyone.

mach1982

SuperSean11 wrote: »

Where does it say animals don’t have souls?

I stand corrected, Animals do have souls but they not immortal ones like ours.

see https://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/pets_in_heaven.htm

So it should be "Thou shalt not kill anything with an immortal soul"

SuperSean11

Where does it say animals don’t have souls?

mach1982

I believe abortion is wrong full stop. Every child should be given the right to life but I am a logical person so will try and look at this logically and without bias.

The really the question is when do we receive our souls, doses a week old bunch of cells have a soul? Some say we receive it at birth, others argue at conception and some a few days after birth.

According to the church "The soul is the subject of human consciousness and freedom " once we can determine when the fetus is conscious ie has self-awareness and you need to have thought to be self-aware so you need a functioning brain then it has a soul.

According to this website "https://www.whattoexpect.com/pregnancy/fetal-development/fetal-brain-nervous-system/"

The beginning of what becomes the brain develops after 16 days and at 6/7 weeks the three main parts of the brain develop.

Christian believe a soul is what separates us from all other animals so that why ok to kill them for food as they don't have souls so we are not breaking "Thou Sall not Kill"

Therefore the 6th Command should really be "Thou Shall Not kill anything with a Soul "

So to answer the OP question, yes you can as a Christian vote for abortion, as long as the fetuses does not have a soul.

SuperSean11

fkx2nspcw9omhg wrote: »

You must accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour.

But why?

Gerry T

fkx2nspcw9omhg wrote:

The rules of the Catholic Church are written by God.

No their not. They were written by men. The bibles were written by men, hundreds of yrs after jesus was here.
Ever notice how miracles were plentifully back in the day, but since the age of photography they seem to have stopped!

end of the road

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Fixed that for ya. Now at least your point is accurately made if nevertheless untrue.

actually no you didn't fix it, his statement is correct. it is a human being, just not a person yet.

ouxbbkqtswdfaw

mach1982 wrote:

They don't worship Mohmand they worship Allah (their name for the God of Abraham, Isaac Jacob) the same God that you and I worship. We just happen to believe that Jesus is the Son of God and they don't.

You must accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour.

mach1982

fkx2nspcw9omhg wrote: »

A prophet is not God.

They don't worship Mohmand they worship Allah (their name for the God of Abraham, Isaac Jacob) the same God that you and I worship. We just happen to believe that Jesus is the Son of God and they don't.

ouxbbkqtswdfaw

antiskeptic wrote:

Many believe this is little more than your owenybaloney.

I am speaking the Truth. Please listen.

ouxbbkqtswdfaw

Je_suis_Jean wrote:

Also, I guess a follower of christ can vote for abortion and later be forgiven in the same way a priest for example can force a child to give him a blow job and later be forgiven by god.

Why do you write such filth? You have shown your true colours.

antiskeptic

fkx2nspcw9omhg wrote: »

The rules of the Catholic Church are written by God.

Many believe this is little more than your fkx2nspcw9omhg.

54and56

fkx2nspcw9omhg wrote: »

I don't understand this. How can a follower of Christ vote for abortion in the first place?

I don't know as I'm not one but given your obvious knowledge of how it all works I was curious to know if god would forgive someone who genuinely repented for voting in favour of abortion and you confirmed god would so that's clarified the OPs question for me.

Also, I guess a follower of christ can vote for abortion and later be forgiven in the same way a priest for example can force a child to give him a blow job and later be forgiven by god.

It's a strange old world eh?

ouxbbkqtswdfaw

mach1982 wrote:

Yes that what I believe Jesus is the Son of God, but Muslins believe he is a Prophet, just like Mohmand. My point is that you said they believe a false God, but they don't.

A prophet is not God.

mach1982

fkx2nspcw9omhg wrote: »

Jesus is not a prophet, He is the Son of God.

Yes that what I believe Jesus is the Son of God, but Muslins believe he is a Prophet, just like Mohmand. My point is that you said they believe a false God, but they don't.

ouxbbkqtswdfaw

mach1982 wrote:

While my views on the topic might be similar to his, am not an ally. In the end, it's between the individual and God . The Church is only meant to guide us , remember their rules are written by men, not God. You don't answer to the Pope, or any other religious leader the only person you answer to is God, and God will always forgive.

God won't always forgive. Don't presume on His mercy. You must be truly repentent from your heart.

J C

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

I will, without a moments hesitation because you are ignoring the health of the mother, the circumstances of the pregnancy and the health of the foetus and projecting an idealistic version of reality which doesn't reflect real life.

Have you ever held a new born with triosomy 13 and watch it die in your arms? My sister did and she had no doubt an abortion would have been the humane thing to do for all concerned but she wasn't allowed that option and had to carry the foetus to full term so both the newly born baby and it's parents could experience the full pain of the process for as long as possible.

You need to get real.

I'm very real .. and the immediate deaths of beautiful innocent 12 week unborn children exactly like this will be the result of a vote to remove the 8th.

pregnancy-week-12-eyelids_square.jpg,qwidth=384.pagespeed.ce.UxHYPj_04A.jpg

pregnancy-week-12-eyelids_square.jpg,qwidth=384.pagespeed.ce.UxHYPj_04A.jpg

This isn't a child with any disease (not that this should be a reason to kill her anyway).
The welfare of the mother is a 'red herring' ... modern medicine can take care of the health of all pregnant women ... and if there is a risk to her life ... abortion is already available in Ireland to prevent that.

... and there is a programme running now on RTE 1 TV on Downs Syndrome testing in the UK ... where 90% of unborn children diagnosed with Downs Syndrome are aborted ... in Iceland the figure is 100%.
Legally in the UK, a Downs Syndrome child can be killed right up to birth.

Horrendous and outrageous !!!

ouxbbkqtswdfaw

mach1982 wrote:

While my views on the topic might be similar to his, am not an ally. In the end, it's between the individual and God . The Church is only meant to guide us , remember their rules are written by men, not God. You don't answer to the Pope, or any other religious leader the only person you answer to is God, and God will always forgive.

The rules of the Catholic Church are written by God.

ouxbbkqtswdfaw

Je_suis_Jean wrote:

So we're sorted on the OPs question then. It is ok for christians to vote for unlimited abortion providing they genuinely repent before they die.

I don't understand this. How can a follower of Christ vote for abortion in the first place?

mach1982

J C wrote: »

Owney ... Roman Cathoics don't have a monopoly on opposing abortion ... Moslems also oppose it ... so please stop fighting with your allies ... there are enough pro-abortionists to oppose, without wasting your energies arguing with people who are on your side, on the abortion issue.

While my views on the topic might be similar to his, am not an ally. In the end, it's between the individual and God . The Church is only meant to guide us , remember their rules are written by men, not God. You don't answer to the Pope, or any other religious leader the only person you answer to is God, and God will always forgive.

54and56

fkx2nspcw9omhg wrote: »

Yes of course.

So we're sorted on the OPs question then. It is ok for christians to vote for unlimited abortion providing they genuinely repent before they die.

Cool.

54and56

J C wrote: »

... here is a 12 week old unborn child which the Dail committee on abortion is recommending to be allowed to be aborted on demand immediately the 8th is removed.

I'm sure that everyone will agree that this is some 'clump of cells' allright !!!

... a beautiful baby girl, as it so happens

... does anybody really think that it is OK to kill this child?

... does anybody really think this isn't a Human Being?

... so who is going 'to cast the first stone' (and vote) to kill this child?

I will, without a moments hesitation because you are ignoring the health of the mother, the circumstances of the pregnancy and the health of the foetus and projecting an idealistic version of reality which doesn't reflect real life.

Have you ever held a new born with triosomy 13 and watch it die in your arms? My sister did and she had no doubt an abortion would have been the humane thing to do for all concerned but she wasn't allowed that option and had to carry the foetus to full term so both the newly born baby and it's parents could experience the full pain of the process for as long as possible.

You need to get real.

ouxbbkqtswdfaw

No Christian can be for the death penalty, Thou shalt not kill. No exceptions.

J C

YFlyer wrote: »

Plenty of Christians for the death penalty.

How do you reckon that I'm for the death penalty?

For the record, I'm not.

... but the irony is that just when the state-sanctioned death penalty was removed in western countries (for henious crimes) ... another type of state sanctioned death penalty was introduced in the form of legalised abortion of innocent unborn children.