Simi wrote: » You also seem to be entirely fine with abortion, so long as it doesn't happen here.
Simi wrote: » Even going so far as to say that women should be provided with aftercare on their return from their illegal (under current Irish law) abortion abroad.
end of the road wrote: » i have to be realistic, and the reality is we cannot stop I don't want to stop someone going abroad to procure one
end of the road wrote: » it's not feasible as other people would be effected if the state tried to implement such a plan.
end of the road wrote: » which means it stops some abortions. poorer women will continue to struggle to afford an abortion even if it was legislated for in ireland, unless the tax payer ends up forking out for it, which will likely mean other treatments which would be necessary seeing funding reduced, or new necessary treatments not being able to be funded. the irish state can't afford abortion on demand, there are actual important issues which the health service needs to fund. anyone who has an abortion on demand basically. they are doing it because the pregnancy is inconvenient to them. so i can see why one would come to the conclusion that it's used as a form of birth control. we aren't talking about people having abortions due to necessary reasons such as threat to life, being denied life saving treatment, issues where the baby could cause a disability or cases where the baby cannot be caried to term.
end of the road wrote: » that is why things as they are work well, those who want abortions can avail of them
end of the road wrote: » the reality is we cannot stop someone going abroad to procure one,
end of the road wrote: » there is plenty of money to improve the services. without abortion on demand that means money doesn't have to be taken to fund it.
Joeytheparrot wrote: » So basically you want an inequality of wealthier women who can have abortions and poorer women that can't; despite the fact that having the child might actually cause further poverty and deprivation of the woman, her existing child and her baby. What about poorer with FFAs? Should we really continue this sick disgusting charade of this state of forcing them to bring their babies to term in order to die a few days later. The 8th doesnt save those babies and treats their mothers completely inhumanely and marginalises them even further because of their socio economic status. A friend of mine had an FFA. She couldnt afford to travel. The inhumamity of this is beyond me. Pro forced birthers are all very moralistic about the life itself but never consider at all the circumstances of what the baby is being born into.
Joeytheparrot wrote: » Bizarre. You are ok with a pro choice stance. Not on my Island. NIMBYISM at its worst.
pilly wrote: » Here's as simple an explanation as I can give to debunk the absolutely nutters idea that abortion costs more than birth. 1 or 2 doctors appointments versus 10 months of healthcare. Can someone please explain to EOTR cause I haven't the energy nor inclination.
end of the road wrote: » if you believe i'm wrong, tell me yourself.
thee glitz wrote: » Well... "where ruptured membranes are accompanied by any clinical or bio-chemical marker of infection, Irish obstetricians understand they CAN intervene with early delivery of the baby if necessary. Unfortunately, the inquest shows that in Galway University Hospital the diagnosis of chorioamnionitis was delayed and relevant information was not noted and acted upon."
"where ruptured membranes are accompanied by any clinical or bio-chemical marker of infection, Irish obstetricians understand they CAN intervene with early delivery of the baby if necessary. Unfortunately, the inquest shows that in Galway University Hospital the diagnosis of chorioamnionitis was delayed and relevant information was not noted and acted upon."
Spanish Eyes wrote: » Just an offside comment. Would I be totally wrong to say that men should not have any input into the lives of pregnant women and their babies WRT abortion and their lives/health? Should be a medical decision with the ob/gyn only. Men will never have to suffer life threathening pre eclampsia, sepsis, post natal depression, pelvic floor disintegration, giving birth and the aftermath of it all. Well I think they should just back off. I notice a lot of the pro life are men. Command and control. I have a lot of time for the former master of Holles Street (he is a man yay!) Peter Boylan. What do you think.
average_runner wrote: » You could be right but a man should have a choice if he wants to be in the kids life, if he decides not To, he shouldn't have to pay maintenance.
Da Boss wrote: » No I most definitely do not agree with your proposition that men shouldn’t have a say. Saying men shouldn’t have a say in an abortion referendum is like saying straight couples shouldn’t have a say in the marriage equality referendum and that batchelors or widows shouldn’t have a say in the divorce referendum. Ireland is a democracy so yes men do and should have a say , yee feminists won’t silence us. And yes abortion does effect men as it ends the life of others , the unborn, and only for the eighth amendment many men may not be enjoying the life they currently do.
end of the road wrote: » i already stated FFA should be covered under the facilitation of abortions in extreme circumstances within the state.
it's not other people's job to do your work for you. if you believe i'm wrong, tell me yourself.
Spanish Eyes wrote: » Ah no, we are not talking about that at all. What you say is fair enough, But what have you to say about what I said above regarding the woman and her pregnancy, if you are male of course!
WhiteRoses wrote: » Well what is your solution? Seriously? Bar forcing someone who does not want to be pregnant to be pregnant, what is the solution? This would be a different kettle of fish if the fetus could survive without the mothers body as host. But while it cannot, while it depends on her to survive and thrive, it should be ultimately be up to her what happens it. If I was a victim of abortion I wouldn’t know what I’d feel because I’d never have existed. However, as a living, breathing woman, I trust my fellow women to make the best decision for themselves, and if they feel abortion is the only option then I support that fully. I’ll also mention that I would never, ever get an abortion myself. It’s not for me. But that could change in the future, and it isn’t for me to dictate how someone else lives their life any way. I want other women to have a choice. So I am pro choice. Also, you’re saying I’m painting you like a gombeen but you and a few others aren’t half painting me as some sort of cold hearted feminazi. This referendum is very very close to my heart for reasons unsuitable for this thread. I know you feel like you are doing right by ‘saving the babies’ but I feel I’m doing right by campaigning for women to have a choice.
kylith wrote: » So you think that if a man doesn't want to have a baby he should be able to walk away, scot free, despite that fact that his behaviour is just as responsible for the existance of the pregnancy. Do you think that a woman should be forced to continue with a pregnancy that she doesn't want, or do you think she should be able to access abortion services in her own country?
Spanish Eyes wrote: » Have you ever suffered pre eclampsia, bleeding, potential miscarriage, post natal depression, pelvic floor disintegration? But I do acknowledge that you have a say but only for putting the seed in, after that the woman does everything to bring the child into the world. You are hosting all the men who do not acknowledge that fact.
average_runner wrote: » Well I am a man. I think you have to take each decision for what it is and respect it. You got be in the scenario to understand it.
Spanish Eyes wrote: » Yes of course. However there are some strident men out there in the msm telling women what to do regarding the potential repeal of the 8th. Why so many men? I am not talking about intimate relationships where such a decision is bound to be traumatic. I do have empathy.
Da Boss wrote: » the eighth does indeed affect men as even I myself was an “accident “ and I thank the eighth because without it I would not be here today!! That’s the importance of it in my life!
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