end of the road wrote: » the 8th may go, but it will likely be on a small majority. also there will be enough to sustain a campaign to make it very difficult to legislate for abortion on demand i'd reccan, which would be a good thing. as long as there is no abortion on demand then the 8th going would have a lot of support from parts of the pro-life movement.
end of the road wrote: » i agree. however being able to access abortion on demand doesn't fit this. if this was about bodily autonomy then repeal would get a landslide vote. however unfortunately the risk of abortion on demand being legislated for is high and that will put a lot of people off voting to repeal.
conorhal wrote: » Well, yes, if it's inaccurate. Anti choice is not an accurate description of any position, it's an attempt to present a reductive general view of somebody, pro choice is not an accurate description of a position either, it's a euphemistic attempt to present a benign view of a very specific act.
Hotblack Desiato wrote: » So what. Anyone can threaten to sue anyone else, it doesn't mean they have a case or will win, and the RCC often makes loud empty threats. (Remember in 2013 when they said they would excommunicate TDs who voted for the X case legislation?) Of course the 8th will go, it's just a question of time. If we didn't have it already, do you think it would be voted in today? There's no reason to believe we would. In 1983 - that's THIRTY FIVE years ago in a very different Ireland - it was voted in by 2:1 after a very nasty, brutal and abusive campaign by groups like SPUC and of course the Roman Catholic Church which still had huge influence and could do no wrong in the eyes of many people. I wasn't old enough to vote, but I well remember it. BUT even 35 years ago and despite the still massive influence of the church and their well-funded campaign allies, it only passed 51:49 in Dublin. Today things are very different, the repeal movement has been gathering strength for years now and the very idea we would have a citizens' assembly and a Dail committee recommending repeal would have been hard to imagine even five years ago, but here we are. Women publicly talking about having had abortions also used to be unthinkable. But then it used to be unthinkable for people to talk about homosexuality, once that changed then all the old taboos surrounding it started to fall away, and people became willing to vote for something not for their own benefit, but to right an injustice experienced by others. The 8th will go. If not this time (but polls suggest it will go) then certainly within the next five years. How many who voted Yes in 1983 are no longer alive? More than an entire generation have passed on since and those under 53 who never got a vote on this issue are much more pro-choice.
grahambo wrote: » This will never change, the Church are already gearing up for legal action against the removal of the baptisim barrier in schools.
Da Boss wrote: You are trying to excuse the inexcusable- Murder!! Yes I accept there is an issue regarding the care of babies however killing the poor indefensible baby’s, or murdering them, is not the solution! Ohh as regards claiming I’m talking through my hole about abortion, I’m not. Ur trying to characterize me as a gombeen however I can inform u I’m a 24 year old college graduate who feels passionate about saving life’s and getting justice for the unborn!! U seem to take ur life for granted, not to be getting personal but imagine u were a victim of abortion, never to life on this earth, denied ur most basic human right
Da Boss wrote: » You are trying to excuse the inexcusable- Murder!! Yes I accept there is an issue regarding the care of babies however killing the poor indefensible baby’s, or murdering them, is not the solution! Ohh as regards claiming I’m talking through my hole about abortion, I’m not. Ur trying to characterize me as a gombeen however I can inform u I’m a 24 year old college graduate who feels passionate about saving life’s and getting justice for the unborn!! U seem to take ur life for granted, not to be getting personal but imagine u were a victim of abortion, never to life on this earth, denied ur most basic human right
kylith wrote: » There is a right to bodily autonomy; to decide what happens to your own body, and that is being denied.
kylith wrote: » It's not a separate entity. If it can't survive independently then it's not separate. If it could survive separately then it could be separated from the woman's body and there would be no issue.
end of the road wrote: » there is no human right to an abortion on demand. i understand that you don't like that and wish it to be otherwise but such a human right doesn't exist. if your life is under threat or the baby can't be caried to term, abortion is availible for you in ireland.
end of the road wrote: » it should not be up to her what happens it and it can't be, as it's a separate entity which has rights of it's own. the fact it relies on it's mother as a host doesn't justify it's murder.
WhiteRoses wrote: » No they are not being fully upheld, and you already admitted as much earlier in the thread when you posted that rights were being upheld for ‘the most part’. I replied saying that ‘for the most part’ wasn’t good enough and they should be upheld in full, which you never replied to. If you want to dispute this I have no problem posting a link to the post. As for the rest of your post, it’s more of you disguising your opinion as fact. This has already been pointed out to you and you don’t care so I’ll just ignore it so as not to derail the thread.
WhiteRoses wrote: » Well what is your solution? Seriously? Bar forcing someone who does not want to be pregnant to be pregnant, what is the solution? This would be a different kettle of fish if the fetus could survive without the mothers body as host. But while it cannot, while it depends on her to survive and thrive, it should be ultimately be up to her what happens it. If I was a victim of abortion I wouldn’t know what I’d feel because I’d never have existed. However, as a living, breathing woman, I trust my fellow women to make the best decision for themselves, and if they feel abortion is the only option then I support that fully. I’ll also mention that I would never, ever get an abortion myself. It’s not for me. But that could change in the future, and it isn’t for me to dictate how someone else lives their life any way. I want other women to have a choice. So I am pro choice. Also, you’re saying I’m painting you like a gombeen but you and a few others aren’t half painting me as some sort of cold hearted feminazi. This referendum is very very close to my heart for reasons unsuitable for this thread. I know you feel like you are doing right by ‘saving the babies’ but I feel I’m doing right by campaigning for women to have a choice.
grahambo wrote: » If you have sex, you could get pregnant, there is no Abortion in Ireland because the parish pumps don't want it. Therefore you can either go abroad to have the abortion or have the baby. This will never change,
Da Boss wrote: » I respect ur opinions- but I cannot find them acceptable in any make shapes or fashion. As regards carrying an unwanted child, in cases of rape, unfortunately the woman has falling victim to the most horrible of crimes, and should be compensated generously in court. How it’s not the doing of the unborn child in question so an abortion would be unjust and WRONG! Regards unplanned pregnancy’s, wear a condom, it’s that simple!!. Abortion would be acceptable if it just affected the woman however that’s not the case as it involves killing another so therefore cannot be tolerated in any make shape or form!
end of the road wrote: » again this isn't a valid question, as it's designed to twist his answer toards the pro-abortion narrative.
end of the road wrote: » your human rights and bodily autonomy are being upheld. there is no human right to kill the unborn unless it's in extreme circumstances. so your human rights aren't been effected as abortion in extreme circumstances is availible.
WhiteRoses wrote: » I can only assume you are queuing up to adopt all the unwanted babies from the many unwilling/unfit mothers in this country? Seeing as you are so passionate about stopping the ‘murder’ of all these fetuses?? Also strange that abortion is legal in so many western, progressive, civilized countries. Someone should have told them they’re all calculating murdering killers! Oh wait. Except they aren’t. You clearly have no idea what the 8th is really about. It’s more than abortion, it’s about maternity care and consent. You don’t have a notion about what your talking about.
frag420 wrote: » So if you were aware of someone who was intending to have an abortion in the UK this weekend would you have the balls to call them out in public to stop them travelling to murder the unborn as you put it? Would you call the police and have them arrested for attempted murder? Again I am going to call another of the pro birth side out and say you would not have the balls to do it! You will happily sit behind a keyboard calling it murder but when it comes down to it you would not have the balls to stop it!! Tell me I am wrong and if I am then prove it!
WhiteRoses wrote: » Nope, I’m just very passionate about my bodily autonomy and human rights, as hard as it is to believe! If it were your human rights up for discussion I’m sure you’d feel strongly about it too.
WhiteRoses wrote: » I can only assume you are queuing up to adopt all the unwanted babies from the many unwilling/unfit mothers in this country? Seeing as you are so passionate about stopping the ‘murder’ of all these fetuses??
WhiteRoses wrote: » Also strange that abortion is legal in so many western, progressive, civilized countries. Someone should have told them they’re all calculating murdering killers! Oh wait. Except they aren’t.
WhiteRoses wrote: » You clearly have no idea what the 8th is really about. It’s more than abortion, it’s about maternity care and consent. You don’t have a notion about what your talking about.
Da Boss wrote: » Well since when have you the “right” to end the life of another. You propose abortion, but what is abortion?! I’ll tell you! Abortion is the pre planned murdering of the most vulnerable in society, the unborn! Abortion is killing and that’s no right! Nobody have the right to kill.
Da Boss wrote: Well since when have you the “right†to end the life of another. You propose abortion, but what is abortion?! I’ll tell you! Abortion is the pre planned murdering of the most vulnerable in society, the unborn! Abortion is killing and that’s no right! Nobody have the right to kill.
Birdie Num Num wrote: » My Human rights, your Human rights?
Da Boss wrote: » White roses I’ve a question of me own!!! Are you Employed by the “pro choice” group or is it just u devote ur whole day to spreading their propaganda
Da Boss wrote: White roses I’ve a question of me own!!! Are you Employed by the “pro choice†group or is it just u devote ur whole day to spreading their propaganda
