Tazium wrote: » This is a story that has provoked emotion and hatred, united and divided a community and fortunately/unfortunately we'll never really understand the wall Mr. Hawe faced that led him to the multiple murders of Clodagh, Liam, Niall and Ryan. I get shivers thinking about the fact that he would have had to restrain each family member as they would inevitably struggle to react. This was a horrific act, carried out by a disturbed individual and has lasting consequences for both families. Was it telling that his parents didn't attend the inquest? I wonder if Cloadagh's family have reconciled with his family over their shared grief of if there is some lingering blame. If there was something you could say to Alan Hawe prior to taking these action, what would it be? I think I'd start with, "let's talk".
pjohnson wrote: » While you think the murderer was an innocent victim for killing 4 people. Mental Health is a real issue. Not an excuse. Marrying murder to mental health will only make the stigma worse.
kunst nugget wrote: » They'll post the same anonymous source article that they've posted several times already, just go back a couple of pages.
PeterParker957 wrote: » +1 I've suffered with a mental health issue many years ago after a bereavement. However, I see no shame in asking for help then nor would I now. Not everyone feels this and if they are tagging mental health issues on this barbaric control freak it could easily lead to others not seeking help.
pjohnson wrote: » Or leading to a decision where they decide they must commit suicide before they kill their loved ones.
pjohnson wrote: » While you may think the murderer was an innocent victim with mental booboos that excuses him for killing 4 people. Mental Health is a real issue. Not an excuse. Marrying murder to mental health will only make the stigma worse.
PeterParker957 wrote: » Surely preferable to "after" no ?
demfad wrote: » If you feel that family members of domestic abuse victims automatically know when someone is being abused then you don't understand it. The abuser gains the family's trust and then can successfully isolate her and ratchet up/keep it hidden. House devil/street angel etc.
LCD wrote: » Not sure if can say this. I`ve family living in the area. Rumors that he had, & was being investigated again, in relation to long standing unsolved crimes (not relating to his family or career). Hence the fall from grace. Again these are just rumors I heard 2nd hand.
demfad wrote: » I've posted quotes from family members earlier in this thread.
PeterParker957 wrote: » I'm religious and hope that's exactly where he is and I truly hope he is suffering.
BinLiner2 wrote: » I've been there as a brother of a murder-suicide victim so I tend to have a cold hard view of these matters. "Deaths dark door" is the sort of flowery warped language i have disdain for
Jase Late Clergywoman wrote: » Well thankfully you don't speak for all religious people. Many of them are also Christian and don't condemn people without knowing the full facts, adding hugely to the pain and grief of surviving family members.
PeterParker957 wrote: » You stab your six year old through the throat and I don't give a toss what rationale well meaning people try to use to justify it.
jobbridge4life wrote: » None of the quotes you posted actually say he was abusive, the annoynmous relative you continuiously reference also said they had no idea why he did it, and that they didn't know if Clodagh was going to leave him. With respect, they appear to have no greater understanding of what happened behind those closed doors than anyone else. There are also several quotes from Clodagh's family that indicate they never felt she was in danger, that she never felt she was in danger, that there was no signs of anything untoward building. There are no reports of the children being anything but happy and well adjusted. The strongest on the record statement I and others have been able to find is the one about Clodagh having to ask him about going to Dublin. You appear to have decided to present vague, mild statements made by Clodagh's family as some sort of unquestionable and much more severe conclusion as this man's descipable crimes.
jobbridge4life wrote: » Where are the rational people trying to justify the slaughter of a six year old? Hysteria like the above is just ridiculous.
Jase Late Clergywoman wrote: » Do you give a toss about his parents, when you post all over the internet that you hope he's burning in Hell?
jobbridge4life wrote: » That isn't cold, it is cruel. Taken together with your comments your attitude to Hawe's parents is disturbing. They woke up just like Clodagh's mother on that day, believing they had three beuatiful grandchildren, a beloved daughter-in-law and a loving son. They lost all that because of their son and the terrible crime he committed. Their grief is as valid as anyone elses and is compounded by the fact that it was their son who was the cause. Any feeling towards them, any, other than profound sympathy is shameful.
demfad wrote: » Otherwise it is disingenous of you to try to bend a story to your own view and misrepresent that family.
kunst nugget wrote: » I don't feel that at all. You keep stating that Clodagh's family knew he was a manipulative abuser when they clearly didn't.
demfad wrote: » The relative said he was manipulative and controlling over many years which is domestic violence: by definition. You may not understand domestic violence: thats not uncommon.
demfad wrote: » His immediate family have said many times that he was an evil man who shielded his true personality from them. They stated that the abuse was not physical but "hidden". In fairness they would know better than an anonymous poster on boards. Lets believe them. What of their actions? They exhumed the killers body away from their loved ones and have organised a large fundraising campaign to raise awareness for domestic violence. If you can find any quote from family members (after the relative's story on domestic violence) that says in support of Hawe or that says the were well adjusted or happy as you imply, then please share it. Otherwise it is disingenous of you to try to bend a story to your own view and misrepresent that family.
kunst nugget wrote: » Bloody hell. Irony overload!
PeterParker957 wrote: » No hysteria - and please read the post admonishing me for wishing he was suffering in Hell. And I said "rationale", i.e. the excuse/reason given and not "rational" to describe a person.
demfad wrote: » In lieu of the massacre her family campaigned and raised a substantial amount of money to help sufferers of domestic violence. They have stated that the abuse Clodagh sufferred was not physical but hidden. They have called his actions calculated. If you still claim the family believe that he was a 'good man who snapped' then please substantiate. Otherwise please show more integrity. You can start by explaining their massive support for a domestic violence charity.
jobbridge4life wrote: » I read the post, it wasn't trying to justify the slaughter of a six year old. Not close.
Well thankfully you don't speak for all religious people. Many of them are also Christian and don't condemn people without knowing the full facts, adding hugely to the pain and grief of surviving family members.
jobbridge4life wrote: » I grew up in a household with domestic violence. I have experienced domestic violence in my own life.http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/remember-clodagh-not-him-relative-8776750 The link above is the report of the comments of the annonymous relative. The only quote contained therein that comes close to aligning with your presentation, is the following: 'Alan Hawe was a controlling, manipulative man, who appeared to those who knew him to be the perfect teacher, neighbour, husband and father.'
"He looked like the ideal husband, but he was a controlling kind of person," Mary said. "I would ask Clodagh if she would like to go shopping in Dublin she would have to run it by him first. He could be as controlling with his silence as he could be with his words."
However, a relative of Clodagh told the Irish Sun that Alan 'was not the saint the media appear determined to canonise'. The relative added: "Alan is a killer. He killed Clodagh, he robbed her children of their future. "He was not an ill man who suffered years of mental torment. "He was a man who meticulously controlled and planned every aspect of his evil deed." The relative said that since Clodagh had died, she had been described as shy and quiet but it wasn't how the relative knew her. “She was a lovely, kind and funny girl when we were growing up — she loved people. “We don’t know why he did what he did. "Maybe she decided to leave him. "Maybe she got sick of her life with him. "I suppose the boys were that bit older and maybe she saw a way out.” Community mourns as friends of Hawe family pay their respects to three children, their loving mother and father who took their lives The family member doesn't believe that mental illness offers an explanation of why Alan Hawe did what he did. The relative added: “Mental illness is reaching epidemic proportions in Ireland and certainly more needs to be done to help those suffering from mental health difficulties no matter what they are. “However, while I concede that when Alan Hawe took up the implements he used to murder his family, he may not have been thinking logically, he was certainly not sane by normal standards. “But to eulogise him as some kind of saint who didn’t know what he was doing is grossly unfair to those who suffer day-in-day-out from mental illness yet somehow manage never to kill anyone. "Alan Hawe was a controlling, manipulative man, who appeared to those who knew him to be the perfect teacher, neighbour, husband and father. “To keep up that illusion over many years took skills not normally associated with those who have mental illness. "Let’s not tarnish the mentally ill by associating them with such evil. “Remember Clodagh — a mother, a daughter, a sister, a niece, cousin, teacher, friend, a wonderful woman who came face-to-face with evil and did not live to tell the tell." The relative added that Clodagh and her kids were killed by somebody who should have protected them.
C__MC wrote: » He also shut closed his window curtains on the house the day of the murder How he could slay the 6 year to death Isn't even worth thinking about
