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Child Item

Body of Alan Hawe to be exhumed

Nekarsulm

News this morning....

http://www.anglocelt.ie/news/roundup/articles/2017/05/10/4139761-body-of-alan-hawe-being-exhumed-this-morning/

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Junkyard Tom

Evil, calculating, murdering piece of shit.

RIP Clodagh, Liam, Niall and Ryan.

irishmirror.ie

suicide_circus

I wouldnt dismiss the idea that he 'snapped", it's just that he snapped years ago and managed to keep an outward appearance of normality while inside he lost all empathy and humanity a long time ago.

up for anything

People have no idea how common domestic abuse is. Domestic violence comprising of physical or mental or emotional or verbal or financial or sexual abuses - one or two of those behaviours or a combination or all of them.

We are conditioned to be shocked by the serial sexual sadist who kidnaps a girl/or three and keeps them under lock and key in coffin boxes for years while daily torturing them but there are countless common or garden chaps and chappesses who do this to their partners and children but because mostly they drive their victims to the edge of insanity and are themselves cunning enough to hide their real selves from other people so very few people are aware of the monsters that live next door or sometimes indeed even in their own houses.

The victims' minds, their very selves have been twisted, moulded and altered by their abusers' physical and mind control and constant brainwashing till they are no longer who they once were, but because it is such a shameful existence and because people who do not understand it tend to despise and pity victims for their weakness and inability to break free of the situation, the victims become very practised and good at acting. This is also driven by fear of their abuser. Fear of death at the hands of their abuser, fear of physical punishment, fear of other punishments - withholding of food and drink, sexual humiliation, fear for children involved and indeed just fear of . Fear is the greatest behaviour modifier.

Countless signs were doubtless missed in Clodagh's case. She probably had to phone him constantly to update him of her whereabouts and time taken to get there and people probably mistook that for evidence of his love and concern for her. There are so many signs that go unrecognised.

A fallacy concerning domestic abusers is that they can change. It may prove true for some very motivated individuals but on the whole even the people who run the rehabilitation courses recognise that they can't be changed. In fact, the courses can prove to be places where they learn and feed off each other and become more practised and dangerous.

People were once so surprised to learn about the sexual abuse of children in this country and others. It is no different with domestic violence and just as well hidden.

eyeforaneye

Written 5th Sep 2016 in another 'Boards' string:
"Having returned from holidays yesterday, I was appalled at reading the story about the Ballyjamesduff murder -suicide.
No respects should be paid whatsoever to the father. Buried with the rest of his family indeed!!
In any other civilized country he would be exposed for what he did. He was a calculated mass murdering psychopath. Any interpretation to the contrary or attempts to rationalize what he did gives succour to likeminded individuals that it's not soooo bad to chop up your family!!............"
Since writing the piece in Sep'16 I'm glad to see he was removed from the family grave, cremated elsewhere and, hopefully his ashes dumped in the nearest wheelie-bin. The harrowing Inquest commenced yesterday is now revealing in graphic detail what Alan Hawe did....... Words fail me.

Sinead Mc1

Does anyone know how likely it is that details of those notes/letters will be made public?

Asus X540L

eyeforaneye wrote: »

Written 5th Sep 2016 in another 'Boards' string:
"Having returned from holidays yesterday, I was appalled at reading the story about the Ballyjamesduff murder -suicide.
No respects should be paid whatsoever to the father. Buried with the rest of his family indeed!!
In any other civilized country he would be exposed for what he did. He was a calculated mass murdering psychopathic fiend. Any interpretation to the contrary or attempts to rationalize what he did gives succour to likeminded individuals that it's not sooo bad to chop up your family!!............"
Since writing the piece in Sep'16 I'm glad to see he was removed from the family grave, cremated elsewhere and, hopefully his ashes dumped in the nearest wheelie-bin. The harrowing Inquest commenced yesterday is now revealing in graphic detail what Alan Hawe was....... Words fail me.

Yeah he should go down as Ireland's most evil man - butchered his wife and kids with a hatchet and carving knives.
Imagine Larry Murphy topped himself and people were saying "God love him, mental health issues, great carpenter, loving father, helped out with the GAA"

According to the pathologist primary teacher Alan knew to hack the windpipes to stop them screaming - I'd imagine his laptop turned up some truly disturbing stuff.
Hopefully we, the public, will get the full gory details. It's not going to be pleasant but we have a right to know.

Nekarsulm

brooke 2 wrote: »

Wasn't the note bloodstained? That might have roused her suspicions, imo.

It was reported that there was a bloodstained partial palm print on one page of the note left on the table.
There was no reference reported about blood on the note taped to the glass door.

Shurimgreat

Being a controlling individual as the evidence points to Hawe being, is completely different to being mentally unstable.
Mentally unstable people usually have a complete lack of control, struggle to cope with even basic everyday stuff. Its why many of them end up homeless, they can't function day in day out.
Hawe on the otherhand showed no such signs and was cool and calm up to the day in question.
The guy was nasty, twisted and evil. Making him out to be mentally ill is unfair to genuinely mentally ill people who cannot control their actions.

Zubeneschamali

Today's news still reporting that his motives are unknown, which suggests that the notes he left do not spell it out.

I would like them made public all the same, there is still far too much "obviously mentally ill" nonsense going around, which is bad for mentally ill people and also won't help prevent future family massacres.

Lisha

Asus X540L wrote: »

Yeah he should go down as Ireland's most evil man - butchered his wife and kids with a hatchet and carving knives.
Imagine Larry Murphy topped himself and people were saying "God love him, mental health issues, great carpenter, loving father, helped out with the GAA"

According to the pathologist primary teacher Alan knew to hack the windpipes to stop them screaming - I'd imagine his laptop turned up some truly disturbing stuff.
Hopefully we, the public, will get the full gory details. It's not going to be pleasant but we have a right to know.

I can’t see how the general public gave a right to know anything about this tbh.

nice_guy80

what gets me is the two of them were meant to return to working in schools the following day.

what was coming up? what was it that was on the horizon?

Asus X540L

Lisha wrote: »

I can’t see how the general public gave a right to know anything about this tbh.

And why not?

People shouldn't be informed so as to try and understand these monsters?

Maybe we should brush it under the carpet and pretend it never happened.

What's disturbing is how many likes you've gotten

helimachoptor

....... wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

tbh if i found that on a door, suicide or murder/suicide would be my only conclusion

Asus X540L

nice_guy80 wrote: »

what gets me is the two of them were meant to return to working in schools the following day.

what was coming up? what was it that was on the horizon?

Heard a while back he got some local young one pregnant.

Mrs OBumble

Asus X540L wrote: »

And why not?

People shouldn't be informed so as to try and understand these monsters?

Maybe we should brush it under the carpet and pretend it never happened.

What's disturbing is how many likes you've gotten

The general public don't need to understand them.

Making the information public only puts ideas in the heads of other similar individuals.

nice_guy80

Asus X540L wrote: »

Heard a while back he got some local young one pregnant.

he wouldn't be the first or last to do that
is it a reason to murder your family?

Asus X540L

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

The general public don't need to understand them.

Making the information public only puts ideas in the heads of other similar individuals.

Shut up please.

Are you serious?

Nekarsulm

Lisha wrote: »

I can’t see how the general public gave a right to know anything about this tbh.

Yeah, keep quiet and keep your head down. Dont question your "betters".
Only 2 mile over the road from the Hawes home is where they buried Brendan Smyth.
Another monster who was protected and cosseted by the powers-that-be.
And only for he was reported to the PSNI by some brave parent in the North, it's likely he would never have been convicted, and would have died of old age and given a full honours funeral.
It's incredible how Hawe still has apologists.
Even yesterday's news on Newstalk was describing his family as having been "killed" by Hawe.
You get killed in an accident, or if a tree falls on you or you fall off a cliff
If someone takes a carving knife and a hatchet to you, you've been murdered.

El_Duderino 09

Zubeneschamali wrote:

I would like them made public all the same, there is still far too much "obviously mentally ill" nonsense going around, which is bad for mentally ill people and also won't help prevent future family massacres.

Junkyard Tom wrote:

Evil, calculating, murdering piece of ****.

On the contrary, if he's just an " Evil, calculating, murdering piece of ****", then there's nothing to be learned that could prevent future incidents.

I'd come at it from the point of view that even if he's a psychopath, that's a psychological abnormality. Research is showing that psychopaths have brain abnormalities such as an inability to empathise or recognise fear/pain in others (think gangsters who do outrageous things to people). It's moving towards ways to predict and prevent incidents which I think is the best course.

That's coming from RESEARCH and investigation, simply concluding " Evil, calculating, murdering piece of ****", is the opposite of investigation. That's the opposite of trying to learn from this tragedy to prevent future incidents. It's just waiting for the next incident to declare " Evil, calculating, murdering piece of ****", since and repeat.

Sinead Mc1

Articles which I read back in August stated that Mary Coll said the letter detailed a "fall from grace", one which Clodagh knew nothing about and that she expected this to come out in the inquest.
I'd like to know. And Clodaghs family think we should know.
It's not going to explain anything away. Nothing could ever do that.
But surely correct information is better than everyone assuming "he was mentally ill" or "he wasn't mentally ill".
I think this case has really frightened people. It's frightened me.
A pillar of society, no signs of abuse etc. Absolutely no sign of lll behaviour whatsoever.
I know it's possible,but that, to me, is terrifying.
If there was something going on that contributed to his state of mind I would like to know what that was.
This is in the public domain now and I think we do have a right to know.

eviltwin

Stabbing children in the windpipe so they couldn't scream......could this atrocity get any more disturbing.

And to think this kunt had a Christian burial, he should be dug up and fed to pigs.

ohnonotgmail

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

On the contrary, if he's just an " Evil, calculating, murdering piece of ****", then there's nothing to be learned that could prevent future incidents.

I'd come at it from the point of view that even if he's a psychopath, that's a psychological abnormality. Research is showing that psychopaths have brain abnormalities such as an inability to empathise or recognise fear/pain in others (think gangsters who do outrageous things to people). It's moving towards ways to predict and prevent incidents which I think is the best course.

That's coming from RESEARCH and investigation, simply concluding " Evil, calculating, murdering piece of ****", is the opposite of investigation. That's the opposite of trying to learn from this tragedy to prevent future incidents. It's just waiting for the next incident to declare " Evil, calculating, murdering piece of ****", since and repeat.

are the public involved in that research? if not, why do they need to know?

Stuckforcash

Shurimgreat wrote: »

The guy was nasty, twisted and evil. Making him out to be mentally ill is unfair to genuinely mentally ill people who cannot control their actions.

I'm not sure why we can't agree that what he did was utterly horrendous and unforgivable AND point towards some psychotic condition. They're not mutually exclusive.

The fact that this is so incredibly rare points to some sort of abnormality, why not look into it?

People saying that it's unfair towards people with mental health issues to associate this man with a mental condition are clutching at straws. Sufferers of which mental condition in particular would be offended by this association? Not people with ocd or agoraphobia surely? It tells me you don't actually know much about mental health conditions yourself.

You can have good people with mental health issues, why not bad people?

El_Duderino 09

ohnonotgmail wrote:

are the public involved in that research? if not, why do they need to know?

At this stage the public is only involved for he purpose of selling clicks, titillation and outrage. But the ultimate findings should be made public or else the learnings can't be shared and used in the future.

Neyite

I would like the reasons he did it to be made public, only because I want it to send a clear message to other people who think that annihilating their entire family to spare themselves living with the shame of some 'fall from grace' will only ensure that their 'standing' and their 'reputation' is gone forever and that every single sordid secret the fcuker wanted to die with him/her and their family live on in perpetuity and is the first thing that people remember about them. Not their job, or hobbies or that they were besties with the local priest.

Expose him for all to see what he truly is. Expose every secret that man had and wanted to keep hidden. It might put others off the idea.

I get the feeling that Clodagh's family are waiting until after the inquest and cannot wait to tell what they know. But it's also possible that his family might try to block any publication of his letters too.

ohnonotgmail

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

At this stage the public is only involved for he purpose of selling clicks, titillation and outrage. But the ultimate findings should be made public or else the learnings can't be shared and used in the future.

that doesnt mean that the details of the note he left should be made public. people just want their curiosity satisfied for salacious reasons.

irishproduce

Severe mental illness being reported by RTE now

Zubeneschamali

Stuckforcash wrote: »

Sufferers of which mental condition in particular would be offended by this association? Not people with ocd or agoraphobia surely?

No, and not schizophrenics, people suffering psychotic breaks, bipolar people, depressed people...

Because there is nothing public to suggest Hawe was mentally ill at all.

Edit: Cross over with that RTE report - finally someone qualified who has read Hawe's notes gives a medical opinion.

El_Duderino 09

Stuckforcash wrote:

People saying that it's unfair towards people with mental health issues to associate this man with a mental condition are clutching at straws. Sufferers of which mental condition in particular would be offended by this association? Not people with ocd or agoraphobia surely? It tells me you don't actually know much about mental health conditions yourself.

This is exactly the point. A lot of people actually don't know much about mental illness. People are bombarded with surface level information like 'if you're experiencing depression, talk to someone'. That's only the tip of the iceberg in psychological terms but it's all the public needs to know.

I think a lot of people mistake knowing all they need to know with knowing all there is to know.

The fact that these murder suicides are rare but have common traits means there's a connection which is most likely psychological. It definitely merits investigation.

McCrack

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

The general public don't need to understand them.

Making the information public only puts ideas in the heads of other similar individuals.

No the coronial process is a public one - who was/were the deceased, what happened, when it happened and where it happened

The detail involved is given under oath in a public forum

There is a proper expectation that the facts are laid out - as repulsive, upsetting etc as they may be