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Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread VIII - MOD NOTE POST #4781

Steve

Continuing on from the previous thread....

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connachta

Padraig121 wrote: »

I actually think Conway deserves another go at full back. He's on great form and it's a position up for grabs looking forward.

thanks

[Deleted User]

Padraig121 wrote: »

It's not an opinion, I didn't say it was right or wrong, I just call them friendlies.

My understanding is the autumn tests predate the world cup, so they were the only opportunity for NH and SH to duke it out. They were never, ever considered friendly games. Teams always put out their best XV against top opposition.

sydthebeat

Padraig121 wrote: »

It's not an opinion, I didn't say it was right or wrong, I just call them friendlies.

by that logic, Lions tours are 'friendlies'.....

padraig.... its actually more correct to consider each individual game a competition in its own right... rather than a friendly with nothing riding on it.

rugby history and tradition has formed this idea of a "test" game.

Padraig121

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Nobody has said otherwise.

You just cant accept that test matches have more importace then you are willing to give them credit for. Unions like IRFU are heavily dependent on these games to fund the provinces too. 60-70% of the money required to fund the pro game here comes from the national team.

Anyway im out. Goodbye

I've already said no one wants to lose them, they're just not as important as tournament matches.

Padraig121

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Grand, as I said, you're wrong. You asked if you're allowed an opinion, I explained. Good luck with it.

How can what i call them be wrong?

Padraig121

prawnsambo wrote: »

Not very adroitly avoiding the question. Could you answer it please?

What question?

aloooof

aloooof wrote: »

You'd have to assume Keatley. With the Jackson situation and Carberry potentially out for awhile, it makes the battle for starting Munster 10 shirt pretty interesting, with the carrot of potential Ireland selection on the line as well.

Will be interesting to see who John van Graan considers to be his starting 10 coming into the European games.

Munster no. 10? JVG's preference? Anyone? Well, I tried...

Padraig121

Deleted User wrote: »

My understanding is the autumn tests predate the world cup, so they were the only opportunity for NH and SH to duke it out. They were never, ever considered friendly games. Teams always put out their best XV against top opposition.

They used to be more important for sure. They should be used for getting your team ready for big tournament matches these days.

irelandrover

aloooof wrote: »

Munster no. 10? JVG's preference? Anyone? Well, I tried...

I think Keatley will be Munster number 10. He has been the better of the 2 this year.

molloyjh

sydthebeat wrote: »

by that logic, Lions tours are 'friendlies'.....

padraig.... its actually more correct to consider each individual game a competition in its own right... rather than a friendly with nothing riding on it.

rugby history and tradition has formed this idea of a "test" game.

The problem is the term friendlies simply doesn't really apply to rugby. It's a term from another sport that has little to no real relevance to rugby. Using a different sport as a reference point you could call the June and November friendlies, but it would be like me calling a pass in soccer towards the opposition goal a forward pass. It technically is a forward pass but that means nothing in soccer.

Padraig121

sydthebeat wrote: »

by that logic, Lions tours are 'friendlies'.....

padraig.... its actually more correct to consider each individual game a competition in its own right... rather than a friendly with nothing riding on it.

rugby history and tradition has formed this idea of a "test" game.

The games the lions play against the club teams would be more like friendlies with the 3 games against the host nation more like tournament games.

irishbucsfan

aloooof wrote: »

Munster no. 10? JVG's preference? Anyone? Well, I tried...

You'd have to think Keatley is in pole position heading back down. But a new leaf being turned over, who knows what JVG wants to do with the position.

If he wants Munster to focus on the set piece first (what he knows) then 10 might end up being one of the most important positions in the side.

prawnsambo

Padraig121 wrote: »

They used to be more important for sure. They should be used for getting your team ready for big tournament matches these days.

Really? Those big tournaments that come around every four years for example?

Padraig121

prawnsambo wrote: »

Really? Those big tournaments that come around every four years for example?

No, the 6 nations is on every year!

Don Kiddick

irishbucsfan wrote: »

You'd have to think Keatley is in pole position heading back down. But a new leaf being turned over, who knows what JVG wants to do with the position.

If he wants Munster to focus on the set piece first (what he knows) then 10 might end up being one of the most important positions in the side.

JVG is a huge fan of JJH , loves the symmetry of his initials it's been whispered down here.....sure who da fuq wants TB that's just IK

I may be slightly bored

irelandrover

Don Kiddick wrote: »

JVG is a huge fan of JJH , loves the symmetry of his initials it's been whispered down here.....sure who da fuq wants TB that's just IK

I may be slightly bored

You could get involved in the conversation about whether its a test or a friendly. That has been fascinating.

aloooof

irishbucsfan wrote: »

You'd have to think Keatley is in pole position heading back down. But a new leaf being turned over, who knows what JVG wants to do with the position.

If he wants Munster to focus on the set piece first (what he knows) then 10 might end up being one of the most important positions in the side.

Agreed, he's been in the better form of the 3 vying for it. There's an argument that even if Bleyendaal is favoured by JVG, Keatley still has the benefit of more exposure to the Irish camp and would still be ahead in the pecking order come 6 Nations almost regardless of who JVG selects.

irelandrover

aloooof wrote: »

Agreed, he's been in the better form of the 3 vying for it. There's an argument that even if Bleyendaal is favoured by JVG, Keatley still has the benefit of more exposure to the Irish camp and would still be ahead in the pecking order come 6 Nations almost regardless of who JVG selects.

Wasnt Bleyendaal in the Irish camp recently even though he isnt qualified. That shows that Schmidt is a fan at least. Its tough to know how it plays out. Knowing Keatley he could be completely out of form by the time the six nations starts.

Don Kiddick

irelandrover wrote: »

You could get involved in the conversation about whether its a test or a friendly. That has been fascinating.

Hey...I may be crazy...but I ain't stupid.... I just stoke the flames and walk away

CIARAN_BOYLE

aloooof wrote: »

Agreed, he's been in the better form of the 3 vying for it. There's an argument that even if Bleyendaal is favoured by JVG, Keatley still has the benefit of more exposure to the Irish camp and would still be ahead in the pecking order come 6 Nations almost regardless of who JVG selects.

All 3 are versatile players which can be considered a plus for Ireland selection.

Of the three I have hopes for jj just because I want to see someone back him.

Keatley probably the experienced veteran of the three though.

aloooof

irelandrover wrote: »

Wasnt Bleyendaal in the Irish camp recently even though he isnt qualified. That shows that Schmidt is a fan at least. Its tough to know how it plays out. Knowing Keatley he could be completely out of form by the time the six nations starts.

He was, but he doesn't qualify til January, I believe. JJ s in the mix at provincial level as well, got his first start at 10 since returning to Munster there in the last Pro14 game against Dragons. And moved there against Connacht as well.

sydthebeat

Padraig121 wrote: »

The games the lions play against the club teams would be more like friendlies with the 3 games against the host nation more like tournament games.

Believe it or not... You're actually getting it!

The games between the lions and the club teams are NOT "test" games.... And would be far more akin to your 'friendly' assertion.

When its a "test" game its a whole other level.

There is no formal competition on a lions tour, though it's accepted that there is a winner etc.

Technically its the very same with each individual test game, as it will be for this Saturdays game against Argentina.

Former Former

irelandrover wrote: »

Wasnt Bleyendaal in the Irish camp recently even though he isnt qualified. That shows that Schmidt is a fan at least. Its tough to know how it plays out. Knowing Keatley he could be completely out of form by the time the six nations starts.

Just a one-day meet-up, I wouldn't read too much into it. He'll need to win his Munster jersey back to have any hope.

PTH2009

Are the players allowed out of carlton for the night times, can the dublin based guys go home and come back in the morning ???

always wondering about the camps

I imagine being stuck in a hotel for 2/3 weeks can get tiresome

Granny15

jm08 wrote: »

Lee Byrne looked like he would be the starting fullback for the Lions until he got injured. At the time of when Rob was at his best, high balls and kicking were all the rage. Kearney was the best fullback in the world under a high ball and he had a great boot. Rob is also great for the big occasion.

He stated before in an interview he copied his tactics under the high ball of a Michaels man Sean Murray of whom he was a carbon copy (rip off). We don't take that copyright infringement lightly where I'm from,

Granny15

Burkie1203 wrote: »

14 Conway,
Bench Keatley, Sweetnam.

Plenty of cover for handsome Rob.

Let me guess - youre a Gonzaga boy?

irishbucsfan

PTH2009 wrote: »

Are the players allowed out of carlton for the night times, can the dublin based guys go home and come back in the morning ???

always wondering about the camps

I imagine being stuck in a hotel for 2/3 weeks can get tiresome

There's time allocated where they can head off. Into town for a coffee or whatever. They wouldn't stay at home though, no.

Larbre34

PTH2009 wrote: »

I imagine being stuck in a hotel for 2/3 weeks can get tiresome

France 2007. It can.

Yeah_Right

Padraig121 wrote: »

I'm not a pure rugby man but I'm allowed an opinion aren't I?

You are but when others show proof that your opinion maybe wrong or incomplete then you should accept that. I'll try to help you out with some facts.

The All Blacks are the defending, back-to-back world champions. They have held the Bledisloe for nearly 15 years and the Rugby Championship for about 5, they have a win percentage of about 85% over this period. And they kick more than nearly any other team. There are several websites with stats that back this up.

I don't know if you ever heard of Joe Rokocoko or Sitevini Sivivatu but they were a couple of fantastic wingers for the All Blacks who scored a **** load of tries. Their international careers ended because they were crap under the high ball (aka the garryowen, the bomb, the up and under or the hoof). Other teams exploited this weakness so they were dropped and they headed to France to collect their millions. Their replacements were players like Israel Dagg, Corey Jane and Ben Smith. Guys who were good under the high ball and who could use it as an attacking weapon.

Another great winger who had some high ball issues was Julian Savea. He was at the last RWC so I'm guessing you saw him play. Early in his AB career he got told to get good at chasing and catching kicks or say goodbye to the black jersey. He worked on it and turned into a pretty successful test winger.

The fact is Southern Hemisphere teams use the kick chase just as much as northern hemisphere sides. It's a great way to turn opposition packs round and a create broken field that can then be exploited.

Hope that helped to clear some things up for you

Oh, and there's no such thing as a ****ing friendly in rugby :mad:

1eg0a3xv7b82of

its just ireland under schmidt cant deal with injuries as the replacements are not experienced at playing top tier teams.
for example there is more to be gained by picking ross byrne on the bench against argentina.

Schmidt has to build an experienced panel for 2019, and that should start immediately.
he should pick his 30 - 35 panel he would like in japan and get them learning in big games.
There is a large gulf in experience between players in the panel and a couple of injuries and 2019 will be another wipe out.