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The robot that really could take your job.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=105294308&postcount=7467
If robots this agile become mass produced they'll start taking the jobs that only menial workers can do, like loading bins into the bin lorry to be emptied or wiping old people's arses.

They'll be no jobs left, who is going to earn the money to pay for it all?????

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RacoonQueen

That video is awesome. Really incredible what is being done and how quickly robot movements are being advanced...but someone is creating that. Robots being created to do the menial jobs, is not a bad thing. It will force people doing those roles to upskill. They'll take the jobs of the next people up, who will upskill and so on...

Someone still needs to be building technology, it can't and won't ever do it on it's own. Robots don't have free will, I don't think robots will ever have free will...how would you programme them to have free will to the extent that a human has? Can't see it.

Re: care homes. Lots of robots being worked on for these tasks. I mean, they've been using hoists for example in hospitals for years to lift patients. Automating a once manual job. I mean staff have to move the patient into the hoist but the hoist does the lifting. Much safer for everyone involved.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQ0RBLKkZjY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3lxBDc-IUw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3lxBDc-IUw

We already have banks with no staff in them...it's coming but the people who are complaining that robots are taking their jobs, just need to go and learn something new. Mutually beneficial IMO as it will force everyone to improve their education, make everyone smarter.

Someone still needs to monitor the machines in shops, banks etc...someone needs to repair them, empty them, refill them, reprogramme them...for now at least. They are much lower level jobs than the ones where people create these machines/robots. So people who are normally working behind a till...up skill and learn how to do something like that.
Humans will be smarter because robots are doing the jobs that require low skill level. I don't see this as a bad thing.

123shooter

doolox wrote: »

It will be up to governments and political representatives to provide an alternative means of earning or obtaining a living wage or payment to prevent rising crime lawlessness and desperation in the dark days ahead.

They have supposed to be doing that ever since they took over from the Kings & Queens................So I wouldn't put too much hope in it. More like they will see it as another chance to feather their own nests and those of their friends..........as usual.

doolox

Employers want to hold on to the coercive power of holding the threat of hunger and homelessness over their workforce and stifle demands for better wages and working conditions. Until a comprehensive substitution of human labour for automated labour is made and at a cheaper rate than human labour we will see resistance to a basic income for all.

Slavery was only abolished when mechanical means became cheaper and more efficient than forced human labour, there was a huge cost in security and vigilance required by all layers of society in a slave state which was often resented by the lower classes who were legally compelled to hunt down and take part in the returning of runaway slaves to the owners, regardless of whether or not they had an economic stake in the labour of that slave. Slavery in the deep south was replaced by sharecropping at the primary producing end of their economy and resulted in no great improvement in the lives of ex slaves, we still live in the shadow of those dark days in terms of the treatment of African Americans in the US today.

A similar process can be seen in modern day resistance to enhanced levels of Social payments and basic income schemes for all people in a country regardless of the employment status or availability for work. In general large corporations and those in the internationally traded sectors do not care how state payments are divided out because they can avoid or reduce tax liability resulting from the existence of such payments and are not competing at the lower end of the labour market. Individual countries cannot move too fast down the road towards a basic income for all without the risk of losing jobs and investments to cheaper locations, such a move needs to be done in a concerted and planned way by all the countries of a region. A start is being made by enforcing tax harmonisation and getting rid of offshore tax havens but a lot more needs to be done, My guess is that a shift from unemployment payments to basic income payments will be gradual and enforcement of job participation will be less coercive and involve less people over time.

Already there exists a provision that JSA people over 62 do not have to engage in a job search and can sign on once a month, a tacit admission that people of that age will find it difficult if not impossible to get a job or retrain in a reasonable time frame before hitting retirement age. One can expect that age to fall as employers reject older applicants for vacant jobs fewer of which will arise as processes and jobs become more automated.

Small, domestic businesses and labour intensive sectors such as cleaners, care providers and child minding services are more vocal in their resistance to a basic income for all because it competes directly with their need for cheap, compliant and cowed labour and increases their costs and reduces their profits in a more direct and visible way than seen by decision makers and profit stakeholders in large multinational corporations.

It will be up to governments and political representatives to provide an alternative means of earning or obtaining a living wage or payment to prevent rising crime lawlessness and desperation in the dark days ahead.

[Deleted User]

Yes, for unemployment to cease being stigmatized, you would really need to redefine unemployment benefit to being "basic income" which is paid to all, and any additional income earned by working is taxed with the basic income is factored in, then working becomes an option for those that want to have an improved standard of living.

Getting the business leaders to finance this is going to be a challenge though, there will be few others who would be earning enough to be able to pay for this through taxation.

doolox

It seems to me that new ways of making an income will be needed. Traditional jobs like retail, manufacturing, and transport will be greatly reduced, just like what happened to agriculture in the last century.

With the presence of nuclear weapons in our society, war as a means of employing surplus population and arbitrating who gets what in the global wealth pile will be undoable as the costs are too great for society to bear. If war solved anything most people could be persuaded to jump on the band wagon and allow it to happen but this will not happen so publically in the west at any rate. It may happen in a smaller scale in less developed countries but as these regions leap-frog over old technologies to adopt and use modern communications wars will become impossible to exploit by the rich people in order to create opportunities to obtain and retain a greater share of wealth from the masses.

There may be an huge increase in security and policing operations worldwide as a larger income gap between rich and poor becomes harder to maintain. These will need a large number of new recruits and technologies which will all need tighter and more transparent regulation....more jobs

There might be a huge increase in Arts, entertainment, sport and other human activities such as high end catering and accommodation provision where the main product is no longer the food or bed etc, which will be provided by robots but the personal service and event-like interaction which goes along with high class hotel experience. This might only be a limited market as most of the people may opt for self service, utilitarian accommodation to cut costs on their travel experiences.

To take a few examples we spend a lot less on food than we used to and we spend a lot less on clothes, these were once large employers in Ireland.

Energy saving strategies like insulation, sustainable energy sources like PV or wind and the advent of passive housing, electric cars etc are cutting costs, in future we may not need to earn as much as people do today for a given level of life. Fuel allowances and having to buy coal, gas or oil just to live may become relics of the past.

Another large area for growth is care of the elderly and children as most middle agers go out to work. A large decrease in available low skilled jobs may see a return to single job families or reduced hours for each partner and a possible displacement of some of the existing childcare jobs. Only the highly skilled high income earners may afford childcare because the lower skilled people will not be able to afford to pay for childcare. The governments may have to increase childrens allowance or come up with some other income support for children as even working families may not be able to afford to support their children in the future. If people opt not to have children societies will collapse or disappear.

Cars of the future may be automated, cutting out the risks entailed with having drivers in cars and a manual road network, this may reduce costs of insurance and also electric cars will last longer, be cheaper to maintain and repair so costs of transport may reduce greatly.

I foresee that being unemployed in the future will not have the same social stigma as it seems to have now. Many different classes and areas will experience periods of unemployment and re assignment to new jobs and new careers many times in their lives. What is traumatic and uncertain now will be come routine in the future but it will need a massive rethink by loan providers, employers, government social welfare and taxation policy makers and politicians which is very lacking in this country.

Housing for many will become more fluid as ownership becomes impossible for most due to lack of a permanent job or ability to compete with gifted professionals for the scarce available houses. Rental will become the new norm but will be difficult for most without a steady and reliable income from which to draw down the necessary rents. Owning a house somewhere even remote from places of work will become a decision for many people as they try to balance the high costs of renting in a job rich area against actually owning a house in a cheap area. People who cannot work for health age or other reasons might be better off moving to cheap areas in order to cut living costs and free up housing for high earning workers. Many jobs may be relocated to cheaper areas if communications and other technologies reduces the costs of distance such as fuel and transport labour costs.

New and previously unthought of things may become items of trade and income generators in the future. There may be a large increase in coaches, trainers and entertainers as the rich get more money and have to spend less on other things such as food and cars which everyone will have in abundance.

Hand made stuff is already making a big comeback and pet care and horse based leisure is taking over many Irish farms previously devoted to beef and dairy enterprises, which are seeing reduced incomes.

In the western world we have seen many economic changes and upheavals in the past, no doubt we will see similar upheavals and changes in the future.

coastwatch

At least this guy is fighting back

ToddyDoody

Deleted User wrote: »

They'll be no jobs left, who is going to earn the money to pay for it all?????

They took all our jobs, again?

[Deleted User]

Deleted User wrote: »

If robots this agile become mass produced they'll start taking the jobs that only menial workers can do, like loading bins into the bin lorry to be emptied o
They'll be no jobs left, who is going to earn the money to pay for it all?????

Its already happened those jobs are taken too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCTyasDmWrs

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

[Deleted User]

Jayop wrote: »

I dunno capt tbh. But if all the jobs that are predicted to be lost are lost then who is going to fund the social welfare? There's not going to be enough people working to fund it so it'll have to come from commercial entities. How that's done is really hard to say.

With so many businesses offshoring their tax affairs, the only way will by increasing VAT on sales. Which means that the consumers pay.

Jayop

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Should every company that offshores a job have to pay for the social welfare of the person they let go ?

Or alternatively should companies based in this country quoting for government funded contracts be entitled to charge slightly more than foreign companies on the basis that it'll take some one off the dole ?

At present the only back pressure for offshoring jobs is customer changing provider but when they are all doing it ??

I dunno capt tbh. But if all the jobs that are predicted to be lost are lost then who is going to fund the social welfare? There's not going to be enough people working to fund it so it'll have to come from commercial entities. How that's done is really hard to say.

[Deleted User]

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

You are in fact agreeing with what I said, however it's the consumerism that requires the second income to support it.

People still had cars and holidays in the 1970s all from a single income.

professore

https://youtu.be/kcAaWc0eLvw

professore

eeguy wrote: »

123shooter wrote: »

This is very true and you would be surprised how cheaply you can live just by cutting back on consumerism without affecting your lives and missing out.

Exactly. Think back to the house of your childhood.
The only "gadget' would be the TV and house phone

Phone? Ye were like royalty!

eeguy

123shooter wrote: »

This is very true and you would be surprised how cheaply you can live just by cutting back on consumerism without affecting your lives and missing out.

Exactly. Think back to the house of your childhood.
The only "gadget' would be the TV and house phone

123shooter

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

This is very true and you would be surprised how cheaply you can live just by cutting back on consumerism without affecting your lives and missing out.

123shooter

Deleted User wrote: »

Which is precisely why the current "consumerism" came into being, products that could last many years are now made to fail after a short period of time, this creates many jobs in the retail trade and all other ancillary businesses.

But we now know this cannot go on.

Manufacturing was exported years ago to exploit cheap labour and to avoid the troublesome local unionised labour.

Globalisation under multinational companies is also under threat and has been seen to be detrimental to the native countries. Look at Brexit and the trouble in other EU countries because of this.

In the 1960s we were sold the dream of only needing to work part time and have lots of leisure time as robots would do all the mundane stuff.

What happened to that! We now have to work longer hours than ever to have the stuff that advertisers tell us we "need" to have meaningful lives and because the neighbours already have one.

Yeah I remember that and also in the late 1980's/early 1990's being told I could retire at 55 and I must take out a pension plan for this. It all turned out to be total garbage, but there still trying to peddle the pension myth in Ireland anyway............great money making idea.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

[Deleted User]

123shooter wrote: »

That actually is a total distortion of the truth although not intentional.

In the future you will not be communicating with people as office jobs and admin are the easiest to replace.

Critical thinking only needs a small amount of people and the short term 'degree' higher education boom of the past 20 years is over loaded and there is a mass shortage of skilled tradesmen.

The majority of the population has moved into the service economies with low pay and part time work where these people are also going to be easily replaced by automation.

This time there could be problems with the transfer of jobs......... as there was when it first happened with the industrial revolution. The last thing a country wants is idle hands as this could lead to all sorts.

But something else may come along and save the day yet.

Which is precisely why the current "consumerism" came into being, products that could last many years are now made to fail after a short period of time, this creates many jobs in the retail trade and all other ancillary businesses.

Manufacturing was exported years ago to exploit cheap labour and to avoid the troublesome local unionised labour.

But all these jobs are low paid, so where as in the past only one breadwinner was needed to support the average household, two or more are required. Unless you want to only have a subsistence lifestyle.

In the 1960s we were sold the dream of only needing to work part time and have lots of leisure time as robots would do all the mundane stuff.

What happened to that! We now have to work longer hours than ever to have the stuff that advertisers tell us we "need" to have meaningful lives and because the neighbours already have one.

There are only so many "makey uppy" jobs that can be created to soak up the hours that many have on their hands, it seems to be easier to just pay them the dole and get cheap migrants to do the work instead.

But if smart robots start competing at this level, then what??

Ficheall

Mint Sauce wrote: »

Will that same robot comfort them in their dying days, care for them and their families, etc etc.

<Deathbed clichéd platitude mode engage>
"There are plenty more fish in the sea."

jacknuig

hmm, Watson is IBM's artificial intelligence system. Already beyond human intelligence some may say. Capable of processing entire literature on any subject and acting on that information. For example, Watson will be used to formulate treatment in oncology as they say cancer is unique to the patient, so the treatment should be. It has read vast amounts of literature and takes into consideration every variable, presenting the optimal treatment plan. It will only present these plans, and will not suggest any course of action due to one fact; liability. That's were humans will come in, and they will take the liability. IBM don't want any potential lawsuits. This is already common practice in many workplaces, were the bosses just sign off and accept liability for any decision. So I wouldn't worry about AI taking over jobs as humans will have to validate many of these processes.

And the reason why they won't ever accept liability is due to the fact that ai lacks, and will forever lack (imo), human judgement. They are oblivious to say, sarcasm, empathy etc.

123shooter

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

That actually is a distortion of the truth although not intentional.

In the future you will not be communicating with people as office jobs and admin are the easiest to replace.

Critical thinking only needs a small amount of people and the short term 'degree' higher education boom of the past 20 years is over loaded and there is a mass shortage of skilled tradesmen.

The majority of the population has moved into the service economies with low pay and part time work where these people are also going to be easily replaced by automation.

This time there could be problems with the transfer of jobs......... as there was when it first happened with the industrial revolution. The last thing a country wants is idle hands as this could lead to all sorts.

But something else may come along and save the day yet.

server down

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Except where they can’t. Or where the robots can do that.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

professore

Mint Sauce wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

Care home owners don't really care about that, if the robots are cheaper to run than the wage bill, then it's no contest.

Families, HIQA, and the HSE might though

If I have the choice between staying at home minded by a robot or going in a nursing home it's the robot every time for me.

Samaris

123shooter wrote: »

T'was a joke. Do you not read the news?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3298715/Children-young-FOUR-given-transgender-lessons-encourage-explore-gender-identities.html

Well, there's the news and then there's the Daily Mail

. Sorry though, Poe's Law in action

123shooter

Samaris wrote: »

A) a tad hysterical and what are you on about?

T'was a joke.

Do you not read the news?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3298715/Children-young-FOUR-given-transgender-lessons-encourage-explore-gender-identities.html

Samaris

123shooter wrote: »

Jobs to be replaced:- .............

Housewives will be replaced as robots have audio on/off switch.

Sanitary towel and pregnancy testing equipment workers will be redundant as the population becomes transexual on their 1st birthday. :rolleyes:

A) a tad hysterical and

what are you on about?

123shooter

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Currently loosing 21,386 a year due to suicide by gun.
And the vast majority are because guns are just so effective that there's little chance of intervention.

Working back on the on stats then if there were 22,161 suicide attempts then depending on what was used there'd be
21,386 gun deaths
1,640 poison deaths
1,130 cutting deaths.

In Ireland?

123shooter

Jobs to be replaced:- .............

Any and all office jobs ........... as everything will be electronic and anybody needing assistance will be communicating with software where you are given options.

A lot of manufacturing jobs.

A lot of food production jobs.

Most warehouse type jobs.

Most transport jobs.

Construction will change and houses will be built in factories so then become manufacturing.

Housewives will be replaced as robots have audio on/off switch.

Sanitary towel and pregnancy testing equipment workers will be redundant as the population becomes transexual on their 1st birthday. :rolleyes:

Last jobs going where humans are employed will be council officials, union officials and politicians as these people will put every obstacle in place to avoid change using money stolen obtained from the public.