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Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread VIII - MOD NOTE POST #4781

Steve

Continuing on from the previous thread....

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stephen_n

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Adam Byrne's defense has actually been improved this season up to the Monty game. People are letting one single game colour their opinions of him, whereas the Irish coaching staff won't do that. The same was true of Dave Kearney who was constantly referred to as a bad defender because of one game, despite the opposite being true.

Does the Munster game not count for some reason?

irishbucsfan

stephen_n wrote: »

Does the Munster game not count for some reason?

It absolutely counts

stephen_n

irishbucsfan wrote: »

It absolutely counts

Well his defence was exposed there too, so I'm not sure what you are basing the one game thing on. He has had ongoing well highlighted issues with his defending. There have been issues this season in most games he has played in.The Monty game is the only one there has been an issue with his tackle technique but that's not the main issue with his defence.

Former Former

connemara man wrote: »

How have you come to this opinion?

What other explanation is there?

irishbucsfan

stephen_n wrote: »

Well his defence was exposed there too, so I'm not sure what you are basing the one game thing on. He has had ongoing well highlighted issues with his defending. There have been issues this season in most games he has played in.The Monty game is the only one there has been an issue with his tackle technique but that's not the main issue with his defence.

You should really just go ahead and read what I said above about that game, no point in me repeating it.

[Deleted User]

Former Former wrote: »

What other explanation is there?

Well you're saying he needs to learn how to defend so I'm asking you how you've come to this conclusion. Him not being named and with no comments from Schmidt isn't a glaring fault in his defence

Jump_In_Jack

connachta wrote: »

You can all find "good reasons" or "live with it" but McCartney ahead of Herring and TOH ahead of Keaney(s)/Byrne is common sense. Considereing Farrell (Chris) as limited is, too

Noboby will change his mind, and that's ok, enough said, we agree to disagree

I can see the argument for McCartney; he's a big man, solid scrummager, and athletic player. He was phenomenal two seasons ago when Connacht were on fire. He was very dynamic in attack in that magical season and picked up the accolade for best hooker in the league at the time.

However, since then, two years has passed and that form simply hasn't been replicated.
McCartney is now 32, and has never been in the Irish squad.

Herring is 27, and has past experience being in the Irish squad under Joe Schmidt.
He played in the Champions Cup recently and did well.

If you want to advocate for a Connacht player to be blooded into the Irish squad I would be suggesting that Dave Heffernan (or even Shane Delahunt) have a better case than McCartney.

Whatever about O'Halloran, he can put in great performances, but he is probably a bit unlucky with injury and he hasn't had a run of matches lately.
There is also the possibility that Darragh Leader is actually a better option too.
It remains to be seen which of the two will be the full-back for the rest of the season. They are both good prospects.
I wouldn't be too disappointed either, there is definitely potential there, but perhaps a bit of luck between now and February and he could be back in the Irish Squad for the 6N.

connachta

Agree as I said ealier 20 international games and around 35 provincial games, still time to change

Burkie1203

connachta wrote: »

Agree as I said ealier 20 international games and around 35 provincial games, still time to change

Best, Scannell, Tracy, Herring, Cronin

Joe has nailed his colours to the mast at hooker. He isnt going to waste precious time (as you said yourself - 20 games) integrating a 32 year old who isnt part of his long term plans when he has 5 guys from which 3 will go the RWC.

Jump_In_Jack

Burkie1203 wrote: »

connachta wrote: »

Agree as I said ealier 20 international games and around 35 provincial games, still time to change

Best, Scannell, Tracy, Herring, Cronin

Joe has nailed his colours to the mast at hooker. He isnt going to waste precious time (as you said yourself - 20 games) integrating a 32 year old who isnt part of his long term plans when he has 5 guys from which 3 will go the RWC.

Dave Heffernan was capped against USA in the summer, so you never know, he could get a call up to the Irish squad at some point.

My guess is that Tracy will emerge as the front runner soon.

Erik Shin

I'm glad that Zebo didn't get dragged into any slagging matches online, or allowed himself to be baited by certain individuals yesterday...
His response so far has been measured and not a single toy thrown out of the pram which I find refreshing.

wp_rathead

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Adam Byrne's defense has actually been improved this season up to the Monty game. People are letting one single game colour their opinions of him, whereas the Irish coaching staff won't do that. The same was true of Dave Kearney who was constantly referred to as a bad defender because of one game, despite the opposite being true.

To give people their due I think Byrne's defensive issues were raised well before Montpellier - mainly his positioning and decision making more than his actual tackling (which in fairness against Nadolo ya can sympathize with him)
He is very exciting going forward and I'm happy he is included in the Irish squad regardless of my doubts

Again with my Connacht Glasses I'd have liked to see TOH as a winger if not seen as a FB option

Wegians89

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

I can see the argument for McCartney; he's a big man, solid scrummager, and athletic player. He was phenomenal two seasons ago when Connacht were on fire. He was very dynamic in attack in that magical season and picked up the accolade for best hooker in the league at the time.

However, since then, two years has passed and that form simply hasn't been replicated.
McCartney is now 32, and has never been in the Irish squad.

Herring is 27, and has past experience being in the Irish squad under Joe Schmidt.
He played in the Champions Cup recently and did well.

If you want to advocate for a Connacht player to be blooded into the Irish squad I would be suggesting that Dave Heffernan (or even Shane Delahunt) have a better case than McCartney.

Whatever about O'Halloran, he can put in great performances, but he is probably a bit unlucky with injury and he hasn't had a run of matches lately.
There is also the possibility that Darragh Leader is actually a better option too.
It remains to be seen which of the two will be the full-back for the rest of the season. They are both good prospects.
I wouldn't be too disappointed either, there is definitely potential there, but perhaps a bit of luck between now and February and he could be back in the Irish Squad for the 6N.

Would agree with a lot if this, if there had to be a hooker from Connacht it should be heffernan but he doesn't start enough to warrant a place in the squad. And leaders stule and attributes suit joe way more then toh, toh is just a lot better at the minute

irishbucsfan

wp_rathead wrote: »

To give people their due I think Byrne's defensive issues were raised well before Montpellier - mainly his positioning and decision making more than his actual tackling (which in fairness against Nadolo ya can sympathize with him)
He is very exciting going forward and I'm happy he is included in the Irish squad regardless of my doubts

Again with my Connacht Glasses I'd have liked to see TOH as a winger if not seen as a FB option

They were raised a long time ago, and were clearly the reason he wasn't involved. Noone is doubting that fact.

pickarooney

Bad news for Ulster and Ireland

https://www.google.fr/amp/s/www.thehollywoodgossip.com/2017/06/jacob-stockdale-wife-swap-star-kills-mother-brother-turns-gun-on/amp/

irishbucsfan

pickarooney wrote: »

Bad news for Ulster and Ireland

https://www.google.fr/amp/s/www.thehollywoodgossip.com/2017/06/jacob-stockdale-wife-swap-star-kills-mother-brother-turns-gun-on/amp/

And he's a renowned fiddley? What on earth is going on with Ulster rugby

Former Former

pickarooney wrote: »

Bad news for Ulster and Ireland

https://www.google.fr/amp/s/www.thehollywoodgossip.com/2017/06/jacob-stockdale-wife-swap-star-kills-mother-brother-turns-gun-on/amp/

Sorry to be "that guy" but two people being murdered isn't the best source of bantz.

[Deleted User]

Former Former wrote: »

Sorry to be "that guy" but two people being murdered isn't the best source of bantz.

It's ok - they're celebrities, not real people.

swiwi_

As my dad always says three things in life are inevitable: death, taxes, and TOH not being selected.

Best just to move on Connacht fans.

connachta

swiwi_ wrote: »

As my dad always says three things in life are inevitable: death, taxes, and TOH not being selected.

Best just to move on Connacht fans.

The Rape of Lucretia

connemara man wrote: »

Former Former wrote: »

The TOH thing is done to death. When he learns how to defend, he'll be back.

How have you come to this opinion?

Good question. Its just to late at this stage, and while its debatable whether he was ever truly 'there' at all, making it 'back' has to be a lost cause now. The number of significantly younger higher ceiling prospects at his level or already above it makes him a closed chapter international-wise now. Not quite the same situation with The Heff - hooker prospects are thin on the ground, but his ceiling is just to low to be investing in.

I wouldnt like this assessment to make it seem like I am down on Connacht though. The decision to retain it years ago as a feeder province to the others has been entirely vindicated, and these two players not making the grade are by no means indicative of a failure of the Connacht project. Ulster may feel its safety net role has benefitted Munster and Leinster predominantly, but I would see that more as a weakness in the Ulster systems than Connacht's to be honest.

[Deleted User]

It's clear as day Schmidt has no interest in TOH. Only picks him when he absolutely has to, when he does make a squad he never makes a 23, he has no international prospects really. I think it's a shame, hugely talented attacker.

Former Former

Interested Observer wrote: »

It's clear as day Schmidt has no interest in TOH. Only picks him when he absolutely has to, when he does make a squad he never makes a 23, he has no international prospects really. I think it's a shame, hugely talented attacker.

It took four minutes of tonight's game to show us why he's not being picked.

connachta

TOH response!!!

The Rape of Lucretia

connachta wrote: »

TOH response!!!

Superb 10 yard unopposed canter to the line. Egg all over Joe's face now, thats for sure.

connachta

for sure yes

Rigor Mortis

thomond2006 wrote: »

Cork Con and Ireland winger extraordinaire!

He's played more often on the wing for Ireland than Byrne or Tiernan

bilston

TOH is a joy to watch in attack at Pro 14 level. I suppose we haven't really seen him at a higher level to know how he would fare. He seems to be in the Craig Gilroy corner

The Rape of Lucretia

bilston wrote: »

TOH is a joy to watch in attack at Pro 14 level. I suppose we haven't really seen him at a higher level to know how he would fare. He seems to be in the Craig Gilroy corner

Gils does it now and again for real though. The comparison is good though. TOH could probably be rightfully considered backup to Gilroy.

connachta

Buckey/Bealham against their fellow internatioal conterparts. Tasty on this scrum