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Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread VIII - MOD NOTE POST #4781

Steve

Continuing on from the previous thread....

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arsebiscuits1

Erik Shin wrote: »

My one bugbear with this non selection of Zebo is that Joe should just have given a proper explanation at the conference...seems poor Murray is being stuck with all the awkward questions...if Joe drops Zebo...fine... no argument... but explain why... don't deflect and let someone else take the heat...it doesn't look good imo

There was no conference.

The 42 reported that Murrays quotes came from before the squad was announced

wp_rathead

Don't fully understand both Rob and Dave over TOH, who can play 15, 14 and 11 and has been playing well
While I'm glad to see Bundee and McCloskey in the squad it's a shame Scannell didn't make it as I'm a big fan of his style. Very surprised no Marshall picked also - I've no big opinion on Farrell yet
Also happy for Sweetnam, I rate his overall game more than Byrne (who reminds me of Healy in that he is electric going forward but can be suspect defensively/positionally)
Looking forward to seeing more James Ryan on international stage too

Dravokivich

Utah_Saint wrote: »

How much game time have the two Kearney's had this season?
Byrne should be there instead of IK as backup 10.

More shocked at those two decisions than Zebo being dropped.

I think they'd be very unlikely to take 3 out halves from 1 province.

Erik Shin

My one bugbear with this non selection of Zebo is that Joe should just have given a proper explanation at the conference...seems poor Murray is being stuck with all the awkward questions...if Joe drops Zebo...fine... no argument... but explain why... don't deflect and let someone else take the heat...it doesn't look good imo

[Deleted User]

Buer wrote: »

If that did happen (and I don't think it's going to happen this autumn anyway), I'd expect him just to move over to 6.

fair point, come 6N if VDF and SOB are fit he could find himself on the bench

Bridge93

I'd imagine RK being picked is largely predicated on Zebo leaving and Payne missing. Presumably they want someone who is a regular fullback in the squad. Carbery and Conway the backups?
O Halloran missing out is slightly perplexing. Lack of experience at this level and injury the excuses I'd imagine

Dave Kearney makes no sense to me personally.

Cronin just hasn't been fit enough for long enough. Disappointing Scannell is injured.

Luke Marshall the notable centre out for me with Ringrose injured. Scannell too I suppose but his form is shadow of what it was up to Christmas.

Made their call on Zebo. No need for me to comment, enough will be said.

Heaslip still seems to have no return date. VdF missing out with his ankle is disappointing but TOD has been munsters stand out back row so fairplay to him. Jordi Murphy begins the long road back.

Keatley over Byrne is much for muchness as far as I'm concerned.

Buer

ronnoco13 wrote: »

Don't think Stander is as nailed on as this time last year, his form has dropped and if he doesn't turn it around Conan could replace him,

If that did happen (and I don't think it's going to happen this autumn anyway), I'd expect him just to move over to 6.

[Deleted User]

Buer wrote: »

Stander has relocated his life once....I can't see him doing it again particularly with the RWC on the horizon. He'll command a serious wedge given he's a nailed on Irish starter which POM currently isn't (but possibly will be again in a month).

Don't think Stander is as nailed on as this time last year, his form has dropped and if he doesn't turn it around Conan could replace him,

Erik Shin wrote: »

Who plays full for the AI series...im making the massive assumption that Rob won't make it...who's next in line

Looking at the squad I'd say Conway, he played full back during summer tour, maybe have a look at stockdale there against fiji

[Deleted User]

Erik Shin wrote: »

Who plays full for the AI series...im making the massive assumption that Rob won't make it...who's next in line

Rob is due to play this weekend so we'll probably have an idea then. I'd imagine the hope is for him to start SA and someone else to start Fiji and a decision to be made subsequently on Argentina.

Burkie1203

Erik Shin wrote: »

Who plays full for the AI series...im making the massive assumption that Rob won't make it...who's next in line

Kearney or conway

Carbery v fiji

Erik Shin

Who plays full for the AI series...im making the massive assumption that Rob won't make it...who's next in line

Buer

Erik Shin wrote: »

And POM seems to be very much appreciated abroad...but would think he's a guy that wants to stay at home, and Ironically enough, that loyalty could potentially cost him in contract talks with the IRFU

I've no doubt it will. Shane Horgan spoke about it before. The IRFU will try and low ball guys if they don't think they're going to leave the country; he mentioned that he believed Munster players had specifically been victims of it in the past.

I don't think POM will entertain any foreign moves...it's not in his make up. The deal will be done quietly for good money (although not near what he would get elsewhere) and I reckon the first we'll know about it will be the press release.

Stander has relocated his life once....I can't see him doing it again particularly with the RWC on the horizon. He'll command a serious wedge given he's a nailed on Irish starter which POM currently isn't (but possibly will be again in a month).

mahoney_j

I’m sure it’s been mentioned but rob /Dave Kearney in neither in any form ,Zebo now far better player and in form just turned out ,not good enough best players should be picked regardless .

Neil3030

thomond2006 wrote: »

POM and Stander are out of contract at the end of this season. This does send a warning shot eh?

That's actually a really good point - for all the anger that may be floating around Munster right now with Zebo's omission, Joe could actually be helping to keep other players like Stander and POM from leaving.

Utah_Saint

How much game time have the two Kearney's had this season?
Byrne should be there instead of IK as backup 10.

More shocked at those two decisions than Zebo being dropped.

Erik Shin

thomond2006 wrote: »

POM and Stander are out of contract at the end of this season. This does send a warning shot eh?

And POM seems to be very much appreciated abroad...but would think he's a guy that wants to stay at home, and Ironically enough, that loyalty could potentially cost him in contract talks with the IRFU

Buer

mahoney_j wrote: »

I’m sure it’s been mentioned but rob /Dave Kearney in neither in any form ,Zebo now far better player and in form just turned out ,not good enough best players should be picked regardless .

If they did that, it would be to the detriment of the Irish team which is the foundation of Irish rugby financially.

Look at Wales...no 6N titles since 2013. In 2013 and 2014 Halfpenny, Roberts, Lydiate, Charteris, Jonathan Davies, Hibbard, North and Bradley Davies all left Wales.

The impact on the national team has been huge culminating in them finishing 5th in the 6N this year.

You can't remain at the top of test rugby if you don't have regular access to your players whilst your competitors do.

thomond2006

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Zebo not making it is a big deal. It significantly increases the penalty for leaving, because you're not only losing your international career when you're abroad, you're also losing the time before you leave. It means 2 years away costs you 3 years of international rugby. I wonder if this will make people reconsider leaving after the world cup.

POM and Stander are out of contract at the end of this season. This does send a warning shot eh?

Larbre34

Buer wrote: »

Christ. He's a rugby coach not an Avenger.

Enough examples in the past show that the two aren't mutually exclusive, however Schmidt is entering the busiest 24 months of this cycle, the IRFU policy (which EOS claims doesnt exist) clearly exists so why would Schmidt be working with anyone at this point that he doesn't envision on the plane to Tokyo? Zebo out is the right call, if it were the 6N around the corner rather than the Autumn series it might have been a different call, but it isnt.

I agree about Scannell, he deserves to be in over Farrell at the very least. Its all good though, very competitive and an attritional 24 months ahead.

Erik Shin

irishfan9 wrote: »

by your definition Munster haven't been a competitive side in years.

That's quite so...we got to a league final and lost a ... all the Irish sides are second tier at the moment, and that's undeniable

prawnsambo

Erik Shin wrote: »

So..
Also-rans you mean...grand

I don't think he limited it to that. At least I didn't read it that way. Looked to me like a minimum standard.

irishfan9

Erik Shin wrote: »

So..
Also-rans you mean...grand

by your definition Munster haven't been a competitive side in years.

mahoney_j

I’m sure it’s been mentioned but rob /Dave Kearney in neither in any form ,Zebo now far better player and in form just turned out ,not good enough best players should be picked regardless .

Erik Shin

irishfan9 wrote: »

semi finals of europe and league.

So..
Also-rans you mean...grand

Winters

Racing are going to be very happy indeed that he can be fully available to them.

This sends a clear message to anyone currently in contract negotiations.

I agree that it's harsh but I see the long term logic in Zebo not making the squad.

errlloyd

irishfan9 wrote: »

Nope, If you agree to leave the Irish system then that is it for Irish selection. Choices have benefits but also consequences.

It's just what I would do.

Argentina will roll back on their foreign player policy for the WC. Australia sort of did the same last time. The international exile helps us build depth, Zebo will have something to offer when the WC comes around.

irishbucsfan

irishfan9 wrote: »

If you are outside the system or agree a contract outside the system, then you can't play for Ireland. That's how it has to be.

Sure, but it's new.

irishfan9

Erik Shin wrote: »

Define competitive?

semi finals of europe and league.

irishfan9

Buer wrote: »

Christ. He's a rugby coach not an Avenger.

a rugby coach trying to protect irish rugby from losing players abroad.

Erik Shin

irishfan9 wrote: »

yup, if the provinces start leaking players and become noncompetitive, it will damage irish rugby.

If you agree to leave the Irish system then that is it for Irish selection. Choices have benefits but also consequences.

Define competitive?