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Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread VIII - MOD NOTE POST #4781

Steve

Continuing on from the previous thread....

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Christy42

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

In the last 6 or 7 years it's gone from 25ish central contracts to fifteenish.

Donnacha Ryan and Simon Zebo leaving in successive years after being supposedly offered provincial contracts seems to suggest something. It may be that the players just shy of central contracts are the ones who are most vulnerable to being poached.

I am surprised at it. For me Zebo should be the first name on the team sheet out of any back 3 player (assuming we don't count the likes of Payne or Henshaw as back 3). Ryan I was less surprised at.

Wonder what the difference in cost was.

Burkie1203

Christy42 wrote: »

I am surprised at it. For me Zebo should be the first name on the team sheet out of any back 3 player (assuming we don't count the likes of Payne or Henshaw as back 3). Ryan I was less surprised at.

Wonder what the difference in cost was.

Munster/IRFU offer was rumoured to be circa 350k. Racing have reportedly offered circa 650k. Its out of range for Munster/IRFU

People also seem to be ignoring the fact that Zebo has repeatedly said he wants to play in france and he wants to go

jm08

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Munster/IRFU offer was rumoured to be circa 350k. Racing have reportedly offered circa 650k. Its out of range for Munster/IRFU

People also seem to be ignoring the fact that Zebo has repeatedly said he wants to play in france and he wants to go

Someone in Indo saying that seeds of discontent were sown in his last contract negotiation, which I think was provincial contract with top ups of international appearances (which were not that many).

People expected Zebo to go, but not this soon. Most thought he would hang in here for the rugby world cup. I think there will be a mass exodus after that.

Presumably Zebo can claim to be French with his French father which will be very useful in the Top 14 with non-national numbers restricted in match day squads.

thomond2006

jm08 wrote: »

Presumably Zebo can claim to be French with his French father which will be very useful in the Top 14 with non-national numbers restricted in match day squads.

He can't. He is not French homegrown (JIFF). The quotas have nothing to do with nationality/heritage.
Jerome Thion who played for Biarritz and France wasn't JIFF as he only started playing rugby in his early 20s. You have to had an espoirs contract for three years prior to 21 or have played five years in a FFR licenced club prior to 23.

Yeah_Right

I'm sorry but I do find it amusing seeing Irish fans complain about their players being seduced by big money offers from overseas clubs.after all Irish clubs have been doing it to other countries for years.

irishbucsfan

Yeah_Right wrote: »

I'm sorry but I do find it amusing seeing Irish fans complain about their players being seduced by big money offers from overseas clubs.after all Irish clubs have been doing it to other countries for years.

Not sure there are that many complaining?

Buer

Yeah_Right wrote: »

I'm sorry but I do find it amusing seeing Irish fans complain about their players being seduced by big money offers from overseas clubs.after all Irish clubs have been doing it to other countries for years.

Players only come here for the weather.

[Deleted User]

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Not sure there are that many complaining?

I don't think there are. What people get hysterical about complain about, wrongly, is the IRFU 'letting them go'. Thought haven't even seen much of that in this case. The acceptance seems to be he's made a move for a lifestyle change and a nice extra chunk of cash, disappointing but so be it.

irishbucsfan

Is it just a press release today, or will there be interviews?

Yeah_Right

Buer wrote: »

Players only come here for the weather.

That's why I moved here :pac:

most posters on here are reasonable enough and understand why the players decide to go. There is a vocal minority who want to blame the IRFU, D4, Heaslip and the lizard people rather than accept that lots of money and a change of scenery is what the player wants.

The whinging is a lot worse on other sites. I find it amusing because I remember hearing similar complaints from NZ fans when the likes of Howlett, Nacewa, Payne, Piutau, Afoa, Tipoki, Aki, Maafi et al left their homeland for big money. I just hope that one day we will see similar complaints coming from French and English fans when the pro leagues in the US, China and the Gulf start poaching all their players

swiwi_

Yeah_Right wrote: »

I'm sorry but I do find it amusing seeing Irish fans complain about their players being seduced by big money offers from overseas clubs.after all Irish clubs have been doing it to other countries for years.

Think it has been relatively quiet. There was a lot more angst when SOB was looking at moving to Toulon.

I don’t see Ireland losing too many players overseas for a start there are only a few players who would attract really big money: Furlong, SOB, Murray, Sexton, Zebo etc. Ireland pays well but there are always big money offers available for certain players from English or French clubs.

molloyjh

Yeah_Right wrote: »

...the lizard people...

I'm glad you said it. I was beginning to think I was going mad.

irishbucsfan

Don't be silly. All IRFU employees are human persons from the planet of earth.

swiwi_

Bit disappointed that VDF out. Robbed me of the drama of selection choices and a hearty Leinster Munster debate. Plus I raté him as a player. Back three probably the next cab of the rank so for interest.

irishbucsfan

swiwi_ wrote: »

Plus I raté him as a player.

Stop doing that!

aloooof

swiwi_ wrote: »

Bit disappointed that VDF out. Robbed me of the drama of selection choices and a hearty Leinster Munster debate. Plus I raté him as a player. Back three probably the next cab of the rank so for interest.

I'm just glad we don't have a project player qualified (or due to be qualified soon) in the back 3.

Come the World Cup, if that player was being selected in favour of Zebo, I'd be expecting even more uproar from Kimmage and the likes.

Christy42

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Munster/IRFU offer was rumoured to be circa 350k. Racing have reportedly offered circa 650k. Its out of range for Munster/IRFU

People also seem to be ignoring the fact that Zebo has repeatedly said he wants to play in france and he wants to go

I mind that less. If a central contract would have fixed then it was a mistake. There is not much they can do there imo.

Bazzo

swiwi_ wrote: »

I don’t see Ireland losing too many players overseas for a start there are only a few players who would attract really big money

Masterful dig :pac:

Former Former

aloooof wrote: »

I'm just glad we don't have a project player qualified (or due to be qualified soon) in the back 3.

Louis Ludik is now qualified. Can't see him being a first-choice but could pick up caps here and there.

aloooof

Former Former wrote: »

Louis Ludik is now qualified. Can't see him being a first-choice but could pick up caps here and there.

Forgot about him. I'd expect he's a fair but down the pecking order tho.

swiwi_

Bazzo wrote: »

Masterful dig :pac:

Not at all. It’s the same for nz. We only have a handful of players who command major money. Don’t look for offence where none intended.

Bazzo

swiwi_ wrote: »

Not at all. It’s the same for nz. We only have a handful of players who command major money. Don’t look for offence where none intended.

I wasn't taking any sort of offence, it was a joke...

Former Former

aloooof wrote: »

Forgot about him. I'd expect he's a fair but down the pecking order tho.

I hope so. He's decent but he's a) 31 and b) like most project players, not really up to top-level rugby.

swiwi_

I’ll be interested to see who gets the 3rd hooking spot. Pretty open field with scannell out.

Burkie1203

jm08 wrote: »

Someone in Indo saying that seeds of discontent were sown in his last contract negotiation, which I think was provincial contract with top ups of international appearances (which were not that many).

People expected Zebo to go, but not this soon. Most thought he would hang in here for the rugby world cup. I think there will be a mass exodus after that.

Presumably Zebo can claim to be French with his French father which will be very useful in the Top 14 with non-national numbers restricted in match day squads.

I think Zebo wants to go. He has an offer too good to refuse that may not come around again. I think if he really wanted to stay he would.

Too many people looking for a reason that isnt really there IMO. Good luck to the chap and his family.

awec

Interested Observer wrote: »

I don't think there are. What people get hysterical about complain about, wrongly, is the IRFU 'letting them go'. Thought haven't even seen much of that in this case. The acceptance seems to be he's made a move for a lifestyle change and a nice extra chunk of cash, disappointing but so be it.

There are continual rumours and talk of the IRFU being difficult to work with when it comes to contract negotiations which I am sure does not help, and that is a valid enough thing to complain about.

Ok, if guys really want to leave they'll leave, but if they're on the fence or willing to talk the IRFU messing them about is going to be detrimental. Not at all suggesting that happened in this specific case.

One of the big factors in Sexton leaving was the IRFU dicking him about with a stupidly low offer.

[Deleted User]

awec wrote: »

There are continual rumours and talk of the IRFU being difficult to work with when it comes to contract negotiations which I am sure does not help, and that is a valid enough thing to complain about.

Ok, if guys really want to leave they'll leave, but if they're on the fence or willing to talk the IRFU messing them about is going to be detrimental. Not at all suggesting that happened in this specific case.

He's the third high profile/current international player that has left Irish rugby in the last, what, decade or more (after Sexton and Ryan)? The IRFU do a remarkable job at keeping players here.

molloyjh

Interested Observer wrote: »

He's the third high profile/current international player that has left Irish rugby in the last, what, decade or more (after Sexton and Ryan)? The IRFU do a remarkable job at keeping players here.

It's like a lot of things. When it works nobody bats an eyelid or doles out any credit. It's meant to work, so people assume it does without thinking of the work involved.

When things go wrong though there's the finger pointing exercise that needs to be done. Blame needs to be doled out. And little to no mention of the majority of other cases where everything worked fine.

irishbucsfan

molloyjh wrote: »

It's like a lot of things. When it works nobody bats an eyelid or doles out any credit. It's meant to work, so people assume it does without thinking of the work involved.

When things go wrong though there's the finger pointing exercise that needs to be done. Blame needs to be doled out. And little to no mention of the majority of other cases where everything worked fine.

Very few cases where everything worked fine

Former Former

Interested Observer wrote: »

He's the third high profile/current international player that has left Irish rugby in the last, what, decade or more (after Sexton and Ryan)? The IRFU do a remarkable job at keeping players here.

Agree. Compare us to Wales or Scotland.