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Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread VIII - MOD NOTE POST #4781

Steve

Continuing on from the previous thread....

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Christy42

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Munster/IRFU offer was rumoured to be circa 350k. Racing have reportedly offered circa 650k. Its out of range for Munster/IRFU

People also seem to be ignoring the fact that Zebo has repeatedly said he wants to play in france and he wants to go

I mind that less. If a central contract would have fixed then it was a mistake. There is not much they can do there imo.

aloooof

swiwi_ wrote: »

Bit disappointed that VDF out. Robbed me of the drama of selection choices and a hearty Leinster Munster debate. Plus I raté him as a player. Back three probably the next cab of the rank so for interest.

I'm just glad we don't have a project player qualified (or due to be qualified soon) in the back 3.

Come the World Cup, if that player was being selected in favour of Zebo, I'd be expecting even more uproar from Kimmage and the likes.

irishbucsfan

swiwi_ wrote: »

Plus I raté him as a player.

Stop doing that!

swiwi_

Bit disappointed that VDF out. Robbed me of the drama of selection choices and a hearty Leinster Munster debate. Plus I raté him as a player. Back three probably the next cab of the rank so for interest.

irishbucsfan

Don't be silly. All IRFU employees are human persons from the planet of earth.

molloyjh

Yeah_Right wrote: »

...the lizard people...

I'm glad you said it. I was beginning to think I was going mad.

swiwi_

Yeah_Right wrote: »

I'm sorry but I do find it amusing seeing Irish fans complain about their players being seduced by big money offers from overseas clubs.after all Irish clubs have been doing it to other countries for years.

Think it has been relatively quiet. There was a lot more angst when SOB was looking at moving to Toulon.

I don’t see Ireland losing too many players overseas for a start there are only a few players who would attract really big money: Furlong, SOB, Murray, Sexton, Zebo etc. Ireland pays well but there are always big money offers available for certain players from English or French clubs.

Yeah_Right

Buer wrote: »

Players only come here for the weather.

That's why I moved here :pac:

most posters on here are reasonable enough and understand why the players decide to go. There is a vocal minority who want to blame the IRFU, D4, Heaslip and the lizard people rather than accept that lots of money and a change of scenery is what the player wants.

The whinging is a lot worse on other sites. I find it amusing because I remember hearing similar complaints from NZ fans when the likes of Howlett, Nacewa, Payne, Piutau, Afoa, Tipoki, Aki, Maafi et al left their homeland for big money. I just hope that one day we will see similar complaints coming from French and English fans when the pro leagues in the US, China and the Gulf start poaching all their players

irishbucsfan

Is it just a press release today, or will there be interviews?

[Deleted User]

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Not sure there are that many complaining?

I don't think there are. What people get hysterical about complain about, wrongly, is the IRFU 'letting them go'. Thought haven't even seen much of that in this case. The acceptance seems to be he's made a move for a lifestyle change and a nice extra chunk of cash, disappointing but so be it.

Buer

Yeah_Right wrote: »

I'm sorry but I do find it amusing seeing Irish fans complain about their players being seduced by big money offers from overseas clubs.after all Irish clubs have been doing it to other countries for years.

Players only come here for the weather.

irishbucsfan

Yeah_Right wrote: »

I'm sorry but I do find it amusing seeing Irish fans complain about their players being seduced by big money offers from overseas clubs.after all Irish clubs have been doing it to other countries for years.

Not sure there are that many complaining?

Yeah_Right

I'm sorry but I do find it amusing seeing Irish fans complain about their players being seduced by big money offers from overseas clubs.after all Irish clubs have been doing it to other countries for years.

thomond2006

jm08 wrote: »

Presumably Zebo can claim to be French with his French father which will be very useful in the Top 14 with non-national numbers restricted in match day squads.

He can't. He is not French homegrown (JIFF). The quotas have nothing to do with nationality/heritage.
Jerome Thion who played for Biarritz and France wasn't JIFF as he only started playing rugby in his early 20s. You have to had an espoirs contract for three years prior to 21 or have played five years in a FFR licenced club prior to 23.

jm08

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Munster/IRFU offer was rumoured to be circa 350k. Racing have reportedly offered circa 650k. Its out of range for Munster/IRFU

People also seem to be ignoring the fact that Zebo has repeatedly said he wants to play in france and he wants to go

Someone in Indo saying that seeds of discontent were sown in his last contract negotiation, which I think was provincial contract with top ups of international appearances (which were not that many).

People expected Zebo to go, but not this soon. Most thought he would hang in here for the rugby world cup. I think there will be a mass exodus after that.

Presumably Zebo can claim to be French with his French father which will be very useful in the Top 14 with non-national numbers restricted in match day squads.

Burkie1203

Christy42 wrote: »

I am surprised at it. For me Zebo should be the first name on the team sheet out of any back 3 player (assuming we don't count the likes of Payne or Henshaw as back 3). Ryan I was less surprised at.

Wonder what the difference in cost was.

Munster/IRFU offer was rumoured to be circa 350k. Racing have reportedly offered circa 650k. Its out of range for Munster/IRFU

People also seem to be ignoring the fact that Zebo has repeatedly said he wants to play in france and he wants to go

Christy42

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

In the last 6 or 7 years it's gone from 25ish central contracts to fifteenish.

Donnacha Ryan and Simon Zebo leaving in successive years after being supposedly offered provincial contracts seems to suggest something. It may be that the players just shy of central contracts are the ones who are most vulnerable to being poached.

I am surprised at it. For me Zebo should be the first name on the team sheet out of any back 3 player (assuming we don't count the likes of Payne or Henshaw as back 3). Ryan I was less surprised at.

Wonder what the difference in cost was.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

I'm curious, what makes you say that they are being phased out?
Is it to do with Zebo leaving?
I don't think they will be phased out, as recently as the past six months or so Heaslip was given one.

I forgot to add Andrew Conway into the mix for fullback,
And Seán Cronin possibly to succeed Best before the next World Cup.
Anyone else I'm forgetting?

In the last 6 or 7 years it's gone from 25ish central contracts to fifteenish.

Donnacha Ryan and Simon Zebo leaving in successive years after being supposedly offered provincial contracts seems to suggest something. It may be that the players just shy of central contracts are the ones who are most vulnerable to being poached.

Jump_In_Jack

stephen_n wrote: »

It would seem like central contacts are being slowly phased out, so it's hard to say if any of those successions will happen.

I'm curious, what makes you say that they are being phased out?
Is it to do with Zebo leaving?
I don't think they will be phased out, as recently as the past six months or so Heaslip was given one.

I forgot to add Andrew Conway into the mix for fullback,
And Seán Cronin possibly to succeed Best before the next World Cup.
Anyone else I'm forgetting?

The Rape of Lucretia

Deleted User wrote: »

Captaining the Lions must count for something

Counts for zip I would say. Its all about player ability, fitness, form, previous implementation of System-Joe, and the blend of the back row. What Warren thought of his leadership ability will not be part of Joe's evaluation.

stephen_n

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Could the below be the future succession plans for the Central Contracts?
15 Kearney => Carbery?/O'Halloran?
14 Bowe => Stockdale?
13 Payne => Ringrose?/Aki?
12 Henshaw
11 Earls
10 Sexton
9 Murray
8 Heaslip => Stander/Conan?
7 O'Brien
6 O'Mahony
5 Toner
4 => Henderson
3 => Furlong
2 Best
1 Healy => McGrath?

It would seem like central contacts are being slowly phased out, so it's hard to say if any of those successions will happen.

Erik Shin

Former Former wrote: »

Just quoting

I wouldn't normally have an issue with Joe's selections, I do have an issue with the stodgy play at times... personally why, personally, I'd like to see Aki definitely get 2 games next month

Former Former

Erik Shin wrote: »

But he hasn't, and that will be borne out by Joe's selection #InJoeWeTrust

Just quoting for posterity when Kearney is named vs South Africa

Erik Shin

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Which amounts to what, exactly? Ruddock has played well at international level too. Is it a game of top trumps, POM has more caps, so he wins?

Ruddock is playing better, and has been for the better part of the last two seasons. That's all that should matter.

But he hasn't, and that will be borne out by Joe's selection #InJoeWeTrust

Former Former

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

I have found a mention on a forum that there is no fixed criteria but that players generally need a certain number of caps to be given a Central Contract (around 30), and most importantly must be a starter, though Cian Healy getting a Central Contract over Jack McGrath is confusing.

Definitely no fixed criteria; Payne got his central contract after only a handful of caps, but you would need to be a certain starter (or almost certain) to be in consideration.

Healy was first choice when he got his, but was constantly injured and overtaken quickly by McGrath.

Wegians89

Pom has to start for me, especially if there's any doubts of best starting, Considering how little he's played. But just think of the impact ruddock could bring off the bench. Great options all round

CIARAN_BOYLE

AbusesToilets wrote: »

What has POM done to put him ahead of Ruddock? He's by far the best 6 playing at the moment. Our best backrow, with JDF out, is Ruddock, SOB and Conan.

POM is the best lineout forward in the back row we have which may be relevant. That said Ruddock is the second best so it's not the same as any other competition that POM would face.

Buer

If you think that multiple games against top tier test opposition don't count hugely you're going to be disappointed.

Ruddock is playing brilliantly and fully deserves a run. If he gets the nod, I'd be delighted for him. He he has nowhere near the top level test experience that POM has. Ruddock has 3 starts against top level test opposition and I suspect that's going to be a factor.

Jump_In_Jack

Does anyone know what players are on Central contracts, and when they are falling due to expire?

From a bit of searching on the web I think the below is accurate, but I have seen specious comments here and there that Jack McGrath and Iain Henderson may also be on contracts, though I could only find mention on contracts signed with their provinces.
Also couldn't find any news of Andrew Trimble's current contract, other than a vague mention in an article that he is signed up for Ulster to June 2019.
Tadhg Furlong is surely due a Central Contract when his current contract expires in June 2018.
I have found a mention on a forum that there is no fixed criteria but that players generally need a certain number of caps to be given a Central Contract (around 30), and most importantly must be a starter, though Cian Healy getting a Central Contract over Jack McGrath is confusing.

June 2017
Donnacha Ryan - Expired
Andrew Trimble - Expired. Extension or conversion to Ulster contract?

June 2018
Rob Kearney
Tommy Bowe
Jared Payne
Peter O'Mahony
Rory Best

Post World Cup 2019
Keith Earls
Robbie Henshaw
Johnny Sexton
Conor Murray
Jamie Heaslip
Sean O'Brien
Cian Healy

June 2020
Devin Toner

Could the below be the future succession plans for the Central Contracts?
15 Kearney => Carbery?/O'Halloran?
14 Bowe => Stockdale?
13 Payne => Ringrose?/Aki?
12 Henshaw
11 Earls
10 Sexton
9 Murray
8 Heaslip => Stander/Conan?
7 O'Brien
6 O'Mahony
5 Toner
4 => Henderson
3 => Furlong
2 Best
1 Healy => McGrath?

AbusesToilets

Former Former wrote: »

I didn't say he didn't, I said:

which is absolutely and unarguably true.

Which amounts to what, exactly? Ruddock has played well at international level too. Is it a game of top trumps, POM has more caps, so he wins?

Ruddock is playing better, and has been for the better part of the last two seasons. That's all that should matter.