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Isn't multiculturalism great...

[Deleted User]

...today I brought my daughter to the playground to meet Slovakian friends with their kids. Also met my cousin and his African partner and their little daughter. After that, I went to my Turkish Muslim barber and to her delight he produced a lollipop.

And I thought, she'll grow up experiencing diversity and cultures that I could only dream of when I was a child in white Catholic Ireland in the late '70s and '80s. And it felt good.

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[Deleted User]

Pac1Man wrote: »

What haircut did you get?

Just a mormon normal one.

Brian?

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Isn't multiculturalism great?

Hmm.

Why are threads about multiculturalism always phrased in absolute terms?

Multiculturalism is neither inherently good, nor bad.

At best, it can be described as relative.

So, exposure to the "nice" aspects of a culture can be great. Exposure to the less pleasant aspects - not so much. There are pleasant, and unpleasant aspects to pretty much any culture, so to speak of any combination of cultures as being all good is clearly ludicrous - yet it's chanted almost like a mantra by progressive types.

Add the fact that within any culture, there is a diverse range of people.
Some of those people can be really nice, others can be total scumbags. Yet they're all from the same culture....

Instead of the usual black or white attitudes towards multiculturalism, where any criticism of an aspect of a culture is automatically deemed racist, would it not make more sense to discuss the facts?

For example. Repression of women/LGBT/FGM in certain societies is not a good thing. Should safeguards be put in place - and enforced - in Irish society to ensure societal norms are adhered to?

This constant multiculturalism is all good/bad is becoming mind-numbingly predictable.

You realise that we also influence the incoming cultures? We influence their attitudes towards women and LGBT+ people too. I see Ireland becoming increasingly tolerant, so they're obviously not holding us back in any way.

We've drawn a line in the sand over which cannot be crossed. We won't accept intolerance towards women and LGBT+ people anymore. Well, except for the extreme right, catholic people. They're allowed, free speech eh?

[Deleted User]

Brian? wrote: »

You realise that we also influence the incoming cultures? We influence their attitudes towards women and LGBT+ people too. I see Ireland becoming increasingly tolerant, so they're obviously not holding us back in any way.

We've drawn a line in the sand over which cannot be crossed. We won't accept intolerance towards women and LGBT+ people anymore. Well, except for the extreme right, catholic people. They're allowed, free speech eh?

What?

baylah17

BillyBobBS wrote: »

Yeah a gay guy would just love to hang out with a few Islamics. He's be made feel very welcome i'd say. When they say "come on up to the roof for a better view" it's time to run.

probably the same reception he would get for many Judeo-Christian sects, have you seen how Russian Orthadox, Roman Catholic, Wesboro Bible, Orthadox Jewish etc treat gays?

Obvious Otter

Brian? wrote: »

You realise that we also influence the incoming cultures? We influence their attitudes towards women and LGBT+ people too. I see Ireland becoming increasingly tolerant, so they're obviously not holding us back in any way.

We've drawn a line in the sand over which cannot be crossed. We won't accept intolerance towards women and LGBT+ people anymore. Well, except for the extreme right, catholic people. They're allowed, free speech eh?

Nice generalisation. What's wrong with free speech? Some people who describe themselves as liberals would really want to look up the definition of the word.

Benjamin Buttons

Brian? wrote: »

You realise that we also influence the incoming cultures? We influence their attitudes towards women and LGBT+ people too. I see Ireland becoming increasingly tolerant, so they're obviously not holding us back in any way.

We've drawn a line in the sand over which cannot be crossed. We won't accept intolerance towards women and LGBT+ people anymore. Well, except for the extreme right, catholic people. They're allowed, free speech eh?

Interesting.
Though stiffen your back and gird your loins for some less than measured responses.

[Deleted User]

fatknacker wrote: »

I'm also sickened you've no one in your group from Asia. Why do you hate Asians?

Why are you angry?

I didn't mention Asians because I didn't meet any Asians. Not sure why I have to spell that out.

Now...you calmer?

[Deleted User]

Brian? wrote: »

You realise that we also influence the incoming cultures? We influence their attitudes towards women and LGBT+ people too. I see Ireland becoming increasingly tolerant, so they're obviously not holding us back in any way.

We've drawn a line in the sand over which cannot be crossed. We won't accept intolerance towards women and LGBT+ people anymore. Well, except for the extreme right, catholic people. They're allowed, free speech eh?

You don't think it's a bit early to say that Ireland has succeeded in influencing change in those that have come here?

I mean, look at the UK and the US... They had a rather long period of minor disturbances (melting pot discussions of the 80's/90's before this massive migration and issues with Islamic 'extremists'... [now they have acid throwing muppets, religious intolerance, racist tendances etc]

Ireland has been receiving much smaller numbers of immigrants for what? 20 years? and it's only in the decade or so that numbers have increased...?

Or are my timescales totally off?

fatknacker

Deleted User wrote: »

Why are you angry?

I didn't mention Asians because I didn't meet any Asians. Not sure why I have to spell that out.

Now...you calmer?

Oh I'm not angry, Conor74. Just....disappointed. I feel let down there were no more spectrums on the rainbow.

seamus

Brian? wrote: »

Well, except for the extreme right, catholic people. They're allowed, free speech eh?

To the privileged, equality feels like oppression.

The catholic right occupied a privileged position of being untouchable for so long that now being considered part of the great unwashed and lumped in with all of the other religions feels like they're under attack.

It makes me laugh to see the likes of David Quinn complain about multiculturalism and in the next sentence complain about anti-catholic bigotry.

The irony appears lost on him.

[Deleted User]

Deleted User wrote: »

You sound angry.

Maybe next week I'll meet a gay friend, maybe I'll say it here, just to see you implode with anger!

Deleted User wrote: »

Ah you're not angry at all at all...

Deleted User wrote: »

Ha! You're even angrier than Wibbs!

Deleted User wrote: »

You're an angry angry individual. Relax, count to ten, no point getting so wound up on an anonymous forum. And sure, maybe a few other angry people will like your take.

Deleted User wrote: »

Why are you angry?

Now...you calmer?

Absolutely bizzare commentary.

GerryDerpy

Omackeral wrote: »

Absolutely bizzare commentary.

Chap wants a safe space free from anger

Pac1Man

Well this has been rousing success.

[Deleted User]

Omackeral wrote: »

Absolutely bizzare commentary.

You didn't cut and paste the posts I was responding to? I think one of them was someone saying my head should be crushed in by a rock.

If 1 poster is angry, I am entitled to say "you are angry". If 5 posters are angry, I am entitled to say "you 5 are angry". Not sure why you don't like that.

If a poster is saying "where's the Asian, why no Asian, do you hate Asians" I am entitled to say "relax".

[Deleted User]

Just think it's a bit weird that your kneejerk go-to is ''you're angry'' and telling people to calm down, relax and count to ten. The fool who said the rock bashing is just that, a fool. Still waiting to hear how your daughter is gonna benefit from different religions btw.

Brian?

Benjamin Buttons wrote: »

Interesting.
Though stiffen your back and gird your loins for some less than measured responses.

My loins come pre-girded thanks.

Brian?

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What?

It's a tongue in cheek comparison of the attitudes of some immigrants, particularly Muslims, to our home grown bigots.

As a nation, we have a terrible record on women's and LGBT+ rights. We're slowly fixing it. Yet I don't see the same people attacking both Muslim immigrant attitudes and Irish Catholic attitudes. Some of which are eerily well aligned.

smurgen

Omackeral wrote: »

Here's one for you, I was raised as a Jehovah's Witness. Left in the late 1990's. AMA :P

so do you still keep up the clean cut appearance associated with J.V's or do you look bedraggled now?

Brian?

Obvious Otter wrote: »

Nice generalisation. What's wrong with free speech? Some people who describe themselves as liberals would really want to look up the definition of the word.

Nothing wrong with free speech. I'm all in favour of it. It's hypocrisy I have a problem with.

[Deleted User]

smurgen wrote: »

so do you still keep up the clean cut appearance associated with J.V's or do you look bedraggled now?

I'm a mess.

smurgen

Omackeral wrote: »

I'm a mess.

Pity us Irish never took to the clean shave, crisp white shirts of the JV's

One eyed Jack

seamus wrote: »

To the privileged, equality feels like oppression.

How do you determine privilege and oppression exactly?

Start with the notion that you're somehow oppressed? Are you prepared to give up whatever is asked of you by those who argue that you are their oppressor?

Or is the notion of 'equality' something that would only work specifically to your advantage over others?

seamus wrote: »

The catholic right occupied a privileged position of being untouchable for so long that now being considered part of the great unwashed and lumped in with all of the other religions feels like they're under attack.

They still do occupy a privileged position seamus!

Not that much has actually changed. Your perspective is a bit like Conor suggesting that his daughter will grow up in a country very different from the white Catholic Ireland he grew up in (which it turns out was really his own little community in South Kerry). She won't, and I'd suggest you're experiencing the same insular perception of Ireland due to your own being holed up in your own small community.

ps. I don't feel under attack at all, I'm a white fcuking male ffs :pac:

seamus wrote: »

It makes me laugh to see the likes of David Quinn complain about multiculturalism and in the next sentence complain about anti-catholic bigotry.

The irony appears lost on him.

David Quinn isn't the only person whom irony appears to be lost on.

[Deleted User]

Brian? wrote: »

My loins come pre-girded thanks.

I'm happy to hear that.
Out of curiosity, what did you mean by the bolded part, below?

Brian? wrote: »

You realise that we also influence the incoming cultures? We influence their attitudes towards women and LGBT+ people too. I see Ireland becoming increasingly tolerant, so they're obviously not holding us back in any way.

We've drawn a line in the sand over which cannot be crossed. We won't accept intolerance towards women and LGBT+ people anymore. Well, except for the extreme right, catholic people. They're allowed, free speech eh?

Nevermind. Our posts crossed.

[Deleted User]

smurgen wrote: »

Pity us Irish never took to the clean shave, crisp white shirts of the JV's

That's Mormons you're thinking of. May JW's have beards and they don't all wear white shirts.

Colonel Claptrap

gifted wrote: »

When I was a kid in the 70 and 80's I grew up dreaming of chocolate and sweets and days off school and being a soccer player.....never woke up after dreaming of diversity or culture...

I dreamed of playing for Liverpool (a team in a foreign country) and playing for Ireland in the world cup (a joining together of many cultures to celebrate our shared love of football).

My favourite sweets were postman pats. But then one of the well off neighbours went on a camping holiday to France, and brought home toblerones. I was amazed at these foreign chocolate flavours which my 6 year old mind had never experienced. Then my cousin moved to Florida and sent home American chocolate to us. It tasted like crap. I decided then I would never visit America because their chocolate was nowhere near as good as toblerones.

Now I look at my 6 year old nephew, playing minecraft on his iPad. A Swedish game, on an American piece of hardware, designed by the son of a Syrian immigrant, assembled in China, and shipped to Ireland on an Airbus - An aircraft designed by a consortium of European aviation firms.

My nephew doesn't dream of multiculturalism -because it's ingrained in the fabric of his every day life. The same way I don't dream about property rights, the rule of law, or clean drinking water. I sometimes dream about driving a Ferrari though...

the immortals

[Deleted User] wrote: »

...today I brought my daughter to the playground to meet Slovakian friends with their kids. Also met my cousin and his African partner and their little daughter. After that, I went to my Turkish Muslim barber and to her delight he produced a lollipop.

And I thought, she'll grow up experiencing diversity and cultures that I could only dream of when I was a child in white Catholic Ireland in the late '70s and '80s. And it felt good.

Coudenhouve kalergi plan, you know about that right, Google it, educate yourself

[Deleted User]

Brian? wrote: »

It's a tongue in cheek comparison of the attitudes of some immigrants, particularly Muslims, to our home grown bigots.

As a nation, we have a terrible record on women's and LGBT+ rights. We're slowly fixing it. Yet I don't see the same people attacking both Muslim immigrant attitudes and Irish Catholic attitudes. Some of which are eerily well aligned.

There are plenty of bigots in this Country who are not Catholic, and plenty of Catholics who are not bigots, though.

Nor is it true that Catholic teaching on women's or LGBT rights are well aligned with Muslim teaching.

It's fair to say that women were shamefully treated in Ireland, but they were equally shamefully treated in non-Catholic Countries for generations, which suggests that was a cultural issue - not a Religious one.

As to LGBT rights - I've yet to see anyone in the Catholic church condoning, much less advocating, stoning people.

Even tongue in cheek, your comment wasn't comparing like for like, and was hitting a bit below the belt, imho.

smurgen

Omackeral wrote: »

That's Mormons you're thinking of. May JW's have beards and they don't all wear white shirts.

is it? I know a few Mormon's, there's a bunch living here in Ballincollig in Cork.Never seen them do the whole white shirt thing.

[Deleted User]

smurgen wrote: »

is it? I know a few Mormon's, there's a bunch living here in Ballincollig in Cork.Never seen them do the whole white shirt thing.

When they're going around sreading the word they do.

Screen-Shot-2015-09-07-at-10.38.37-AM1-e1441640376232.png

Benjamin Buttons

Omackeral wrote: »

When they're going around sreading the word they do.

A great bunch of lads.