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Child Item

Isn't multiculturalism great...

[Deleted User]

...today I brought my daughter to the playground to meet Slovakian friends with their kids. Also met my cousin and his African partner and their little daughter. After that, I went to my Turkish Muslim barber and to her delight he produced a lollipop.

And I thought, she'll grow up experiencing diversity and cultures that I could only dream of when I was a child in white Catholic Ireland in the late '70s and '80s. And it felt good.

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[Deleted User]

Brian? wrote: »

My loins come pre-girded thanks.

I'm happy to hear that.
Out of curiosity, what did you mean by the bolded part, below?

Brian? wrote: »

You realise that we also influence the incoming cultures? We influence their attitudes towards women and LGBT+ people too. I see Ireland becoming increasingly tolerant, so they're obviously not holding us back in any way.

We've drawn a line in the sand over which cannot be crossed. We won't accept intolerance towards women and LGBT+ people anymore. Well, except for the extreme right, catholic people. They're allowed, free speech eh?

Nevermind. Our posts crossed.

One eyed Jack

seamus wrote: »

To the privileged, equality feels like oppression.

How do you determine privilege and oppression exactly?

Start with the notion that you're somehow oppressed? Are you prepared to give up whatever is asked of you by those who argue that you are their oppressor?

Or is the notion of 'equality' something that would only work specifically to your advantage over others?

seamus wrote: »

The catholic right occupied a privileged position of being untouchable for so long that now being considered part of the great unwashed and lumped in with all of the other religions feels like they're under attack.

They still do occupy a privileged position seamus!

Not that much has actually changed. Your perspective is a bit like Conor suggesting that his daughter will grow up in a country very different from the white Catholic Ireland he grew up in (which it turns out was really his own little community in South Kerry). She won't, and I'd suggest you're experiencing the same insular perception of Ireland due to your own being holed up in your own small community.

ps. I don't feel under attack at all, I'm a white fcuking male ffs :pac:

seamus wrote: »

It makes me laugh to see the likes of David Quinn complain about multiculturalism and in the next sentence complain about anti-catholic bigotry.

The irony appears lost on him.

David Quinn isn't the only person whom irony appears to be lost on.

smurgen

Omackeral wrote: »

I'm a mess.

Pity us Irish never took to the clean shave, crisp white shirts of the JV's

[Deleted User]

smurgen wrote: »

so do you still keep up the clean cut appearance associated with J.V's or do you look bedraggled now?

I'm a mess.

Brian?

Obvious Otter wrote: »

Nice generalisation. What's wrong with free speech? Some people who describe themselves as liberals would really want to look up the definition of the word.

Nothing wrong with free speech. I'm all in favour of it. It's hypocrisy I have a problem with.

smurgen

Omackeral wrote: »

Here's one for you, I was raised as a Jehovah's Witness. Left in the late 1990's. AMA :P

so do you still keep up the clean cut appearance associated with J.V's or do you look bedraggled now?

Brian?

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What?

It's a tongue in cheek comparison of the attitudes of some immigrants, particularly Muslims, to our home grown bigots.

As a nation, we have a terrible record on women's and LGBT+ rights. We're slowly fixing it. Yet I don't see the same people attacking both Muslim immigrant attitudes and Irish Catholic attitudes. Some of which are eerily well aligned.

Brian?

Benjamin Buttons wrote: »

Interesting.
Though stiffen your back and gird your loins for some less than measured responses.

My loins come pre-girded thanks.

[Deleted User]

Just think it's a bit weird that your kneejerk go-to is ''you're angry'' and telling people to calm down, relax and count to ten. The fool who said the rock bashing is just that, a fool. Still waiting to hear how your daughter is gonna benefit from different religions btw.

[Deleted User]

Omackeral wrote: »

Absolutely bizzare commentary.

You didn't cut and paste the posts I was responding to? I think one of them was someone saying my head should be crushed in by a rock.

If 1 poster is angry, I am entitled to say "you are angry". If 5 posters are angry, I am entitled to say "you 5 are angry". Not sure why you don't like that.

If a poster is saying "where's the Asian, why no Asian, do you hate Asians" I am entitled to say "relax".

Pac1Man

Well this has been rousing success.

GerryDerpy

Omackeral wrote: »

Absolutely bizzare commentary.

Chap wants a safe space free from anger

[Deleted User]

Deleted User wrote: »

You sound angry.

Maybe next week I'll meet a gay friend, maybe I'll say it here, just to see you implode with anger!

Deleted User wrote: »

Ah you're not angry at all at all...

Deleted User wrote: »

Ha! You're even angrier than Wibbs!

Deleted User wrote: »

You're an angry angry individual. Relax, count to ten, no point getting so wound up on an anonymous forum. And sure, maybe a few other angry people will like your take.

Deleted User wrote: »

Why are you angry?

Now...you calmer?

Absolutely bizzare commentary.

seamus

Brian? wrote: »

Well, except for the extreme right, catholic people. They're allowed, free speech eh?

To the privileged, equality feels like oppression.

The catholic right occupied a privileged position of being untouchable for so long that now being considered part of the great unwashed and lumped in with all of the other religions feels like they're under attack.

It makes me laugh to see the likes of David Quinn complain about multiculturalism and in the next sentence complain about anti-catholic bigotry.

The irony appears lost on him.

fatknacker

Deleted User wrote: »

Why are you angry?

I didn't mention Asians because I didn't meet any Asians. Not sure why I have to spell that out.

Now...you calmer?

Oh I'm not angry, Conor74. Just....disappointed. I feel let down there were no more spectrums on the rainbow.

[Deleted User]

Brian? wrote: »

You realise that we also influence the incoming cultures? We influence their attitudes towards women and LGBT+ people too. I see Ireland becoming increasingly tolerant, so they're obviously not holding us back in any way.

We've drawn a line in the sand over which cannot be crossed. We won't accept intolerance towards women and LGBT+ people anymore. Well, except for the extreme right, catholic people. They're allowed, free speech eh?

You don't think it's a bit early to say that Ireland has succeeded in influencing change in those that have come here?

I mean, look at the UK and the US... They had a rather long period of minor disturbances (melting pot discussions of the 80's/90's before this massive migration and issues with Islamic 'extremists'... [now they have acid throwing muppets, religious intolerance, racist tendances etc]

Ireland has been receiving much smaller numbers of immigrants for what? 20 years? and it's only in the decade or so that numbers have increased...?

Or are my timescales totally off?

[Deleted User]

fatknacker wrote: »

I'm also sickened you've no one in your group from Asia. Why do you hate Asians?

Why are you angry?

I didn't mention Asians because I didn't meet any Asians. Not sure why I have to spell that out.

Now...you calmer?

Benjamin Buttons

Brian? wrote: »

You realise that we also influence the incoming cultures? We influence their attitudes towards women and LGBT+ people too. I see Ireland becoming increasingly tolerant, so they're obviously not holding us back in any way.

We've drawn a line in the sand over which cannot be crossed. We won't accept intolerance towards women and LGBT+ people anymore. Well, except for the extreme right, catholic people. They're allowed, free speech eh?

Interesting.
Though stiffen your back and gird your loins for some less than measured responses.

Obvious Otter

Brian? wrote: »

You realise that we also influence the incoming cultures? We influence their attitudes towards women and LGBT+ people too. I see Ireland becoming increasingly tolerant, so they're obviously not holding us back in any way.

We've drawn a line in the sand over which cannot be crossed. We won't accept intolerance towards women and LGBT+ people anymore. Well, except for the extreme right, catholic people. They're allowed, free speech eh?

Nice generalisation. What's wrong with free speech? Some people who describe themselves as liberals would really want to look up the definition of the word.

baylah17

BillyBobBS wrote: »

Yeah a gay guy would just love to hang out with a few Islamics. He's be made feel very welcome i'd say. When they say "come on up to the roof for a better view" it's time to run.

probably the same reception he would get for many Judeo-Christian sects, have you seen how Russian Orthadox, Roman Catholic, Wesboro Bible, Orthadox Jewish etc treat gays?

[Deleted User]

Brian? wrote: »

You realise that we also influence the incoming cultures? We influence their attitudes towards women and LGBT+ people too. I see Ireland becoming increasingly tolerant, so they're obviously not holding us back in any way.

We've drawn a line in the sand over which cannot be crossed. We won't accept intolerance towards women and LGBT+ people anymore. Well, except for the extreme right, catholic people. They're allowed, free speech eh?

What?

Brian?

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Isn't multiculturalism great?

Hmm.

Why are threads about multiculturalism always phrased in absolute terms?

Multiculturalism is neither inherently good, nor bad.

At best, it can be described as relative.

So, exposure to the "nice" aspects of a culture can be great. Exposure to the less pleasant aspects - not so much. There are pleasant, and unpleasant aspects to pretty much any culture, so to speak of any combination of cultures as being all good is clearly ludicrous - yet it's chanted almost like a mantra by progressive types.

Add the fact that within any culture, there is a diverse range of people.
Some of those people can be really nice, others can be total scumbags. Yet they're all from the same culture....

Instead of the usual black or white attitudes towards multiculturalism, where any criticism of an aspect of a culture is automatically deemed racist, would it not make more sense to discuss the facts?

For example. Repression of women/LGBT/FGM in certain societies is not a good thing. Should safeguards be put in place - and enforced - in Irish society to ensure societal norms are adhered to?

This constant multiculturalism is all good/bad is becoming mind-numbingly predictable.

You realise that we also influence the incoming cultures? We influence their attitudes towards women and LGBT+ people too. I see Ireland becoming increasingly tolerant, so they're obviously not holding us back in any way.

We've drawn a line in the sand over which cannot be crossed. We won't accept intolerance towards women and LGBT+ people anymore. Well, except for the extreme right, catholic people. They're allowed, free speech eh?

[Deleted User]

Pac1Man wrote: »

What haircut did you get?

Just a mormon normal one.

Brian?

The Fake Sheikh wrote: »

What part exactly has multiculturalism played in that?
Ireland has become more Western and Americanised than anything else.
What positive marks has immigration, particularly different cultures like African and Middle Eastern, left on this country?

African food shops are fierce handy to buy scotch bonnets. He more scotch bonnets, the better life is.

The was a time when an Abrakebra was the pinnacle of kebab eating outside Dublin City centre. Now there are delicious middle eastern kebabs everywhere.

Variety is a wonderful thing.

Pac1Man

What haircut did you get?

[Deleted User]

Here's one for you, I was raised as a Jehovah's Witness. Left in the late 1990's. AMA :P

[Deleted User]

Really Interested wrote: »

I am unaware of anyone who would keep their distance from JW's in social situations.

I would... but then I've had friends who were members of the faith by birth and received horrible treatment both during their time in the Sect and again after they left. (by the remaining JWs and members of their own families)

In fact in Cork, KC's the famous chipper in cork is owned by a JW family, most of the employees are JW, from what I understand the JW community is very vibrant in cork and members are involed in all aspects of business and social life in the City.

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/dietician-behind-fish-and-chip-shop-in-douglas-1.531943

A bit of history. The shop has a chipper cam on line so you can see how long a wait before you go there, very handy as the queue often is very large.

Yup. I lived near Douglas for 5 years. Great food. Wouldn't hesitate to buy from them. Doesn't mean I appreciate their personal lifestyle though. But as long as that lifestyle to kept private.. I dont have an issue with them.

Benjamin Buttons

Really Interested wrote: »

I am unaware of anyone who would keep their distance from JWs in social situations. In fact in Cork, KC's the famous chipper in cork is owned by a JW family, most of the employees are JWs, from what I understand the JW community is very vibrant in cork and members are involed in all aspects of business and social life in the City.

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/dietician-behind-fish-and-chip-shop-in-douglas-1.531943

A bit of history. The shop has a chipper cam on line so you can see how long a wait before you go there, very handy as the queue often is very large.

I think she mistyped and probably meant SJW, so I've fixed your post accordingly.
It now reads as follows:

''I am unaware of anyone who would keep their distance from SJWs in social situations. In fact in Cork, KC's the famous chipper in Cork is owned by an SJW family, most of the employees are SJWs, from what I understand the SJW community is very vibrant in Cork and members are involved in all aspects of business and social life in the City.''

One eyed Jack

Widdershins wrote: »

I recently had a conversation about Jehova's Witnesses. It's amusing the way the same people who deliberately overlook the failings and flaws of Islam for example tend not to be shy about not only condemning the JW's but I suspect keeping their distance from them in such social situations as the OP describes. And imo the JW's are another weird cult with its own creepy conduct and its own parallel society. I just cannot imagine this post with the ''Jehova's Witness barber even produced a lollipop! swoon!'' but maybe I'm wrong.

JW's maybe don't hold any allure because they're sort of familiar. I don't get the love affair with the exotic here. It's like the grass is always greener on the other side.

JW's simply don't hold any allure because they're generally not as obvious in society as adherents of Islam. I'd never condemn either JW or Islam.

I think people will cherry-pick what they will to suit their particular reasons, so I wouldn't see JWs as another weird cult, I'd see it as the guy who used sit beside me in math class annoying the shìt out of me to go to one of their prayer meetings! But that's one individual, same as my sister is one Individual who converted to Islam. She's grand... for the most part :pac:

But again - individuals. I'd be silly were I to tar them a whole group in society as Conor appeared to have alluded to with his "white Catholic Ireland" nonsense.

BillyBobBS

Call Me Jimmy wrote: »

I don't think there's anyone except ideological scumbags who would think you can't have a pleasant day with people of different ethnicities...

Yeah a gay guy would just love to hang out with a few Islamics. He's be made feel very welcome i'd say. When they say "come on up to the roof for a better view" it's time to run.