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So my car needs a new engine..

[Deleted User]

Howdy folks.

I have a 2009 citroen C5, 1.6hdi diesel. it's got about 270km on the clock and it's never really given any trouble.

Recently it developed a leak in the coolant department. but it was looked at and some stop-leak seemed to work on it.

On Sunday I was driving it and heard a sudden loud tapping/clicking. Engine lost all power and car was towed home.

Mechanic just sent me a text to say he stuck the car up on the ramp and it's bad news. Engine is gone as there's a hole in the back of it.

I'm trying not to dwell on it too much but now I'm curious about my next steps.

From what I gather (haven't actually called to mechanic yet) I'll be needing a new engine. My mechanic says he doesn't do work that big and as such can't give me a rough price. Although I'm hoping he knows someone who can deal with it.

In the meantime I'm looking to see if anyone has any advice or opinions at all? Or can anyone give a realistic idea on the cost of replacing a 1.6 diesel engine in a c5.

I paid 9k for the car 2 years ago, and i really like the cae, so hesitant to part with it. On the other hand, if the price is crazy then obviously it's something I may be forced to do.

Anyone able to offer any advice?

Cheers.

- A very deflated KKV.

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FrontDoor

Deleted User wrote: »

With supply and fit im getting a 12 month warranty. If they say it's only for X mileage, i'll just push them into giving 12 months.

So the situation i am in at present is that IVI crowd said they can supply and fit a 'good as new, tested and conditioned' engine for €2900. But I'd have to get the car to them (I didnt ask them about towing, but assuming they want €100 to tow, then i'd be back at the same price as Dan Daly's in Dunshaughlin, who are offering pretty much the same service, but looking for €3000.

IVI said it's 2900 and that's it. Whereas Daly's said they might be able to do something on price once they actually look at it.

In the meantime, a chap that knows me on Facebook messaged me and said he works in a scrapyard and can give me a decent engine for £350 (Sterling). So about €400, but that's without 'injectors and turbo' (as presumably mine should be okay). I can get it fitted by a mechanic (Havent priced one yet). I'd guess i could go down that route for about 1100-1300 all in.

So I'm looking at about €1300 for a 2nd hand engine, supplied and fitted by two different people (so no warranty, cos they'll both blame each other if anything goes wrong).

Or about €3000 for a reconditioned with 12 month warranty, supplied and fitted by a crowd that specialise in engines.

Even though 3k is mental money, considering i do such high mileage, and i drive around about 22counties on a regular basis (I live in Drogheda, but I broke down in Tipperary, for example), I think that the peace of mind that comes with a reconditioned, tested, etc. engine with a guarantee seems like it might be worth the extra money for the sake of having confidence in the car in general?

Or am i being a bit silly with that thinking..?

Has anyone got any knowledge of this, or know any questions that might be important that i should be running by the engine crowd? Talk of injectors and turbos has me completely thrown altogether. Is the turbo part of the engine? or a separate component altogether?

To be honest, I don't think that car is ever going to be worth 5k again. Closer to 3k maybe. At a push.

I would consider getting 7-8k together and heading off to the UK.

If you want to stick with PSA, the 2.0 508 is a well regarded car with 160 bhp. 5 sterling would have one for you.

Similar money for a Mondeo with the same engine.

Spending that sort of cash is a gamble, but you'd have a far more comfortable experience driving 50k km in something with a bit of poke. More reliable engine too.

Or take a gamble on the engine from a breakers.

Second hand cars are cheap in the UK at the minute and from 2010-11 on, have much more favourable emissions for import.

Toyotafanboi

Injectors are part of the reason that those engines fail and turbos can also suffer so I wouldn't be inclined to keep your old ones as they are probably in a bad way.

IMO I'd go with IVI, they are on the go a long time and have an excellent reputation. If you're in Dublin or surrounding areas I'd say they'd lift the car if they get the work.

Toyotafanboi

It's basically spend 3k and get to stick with the devil you know. The cheapest way out is to fix the car, if you put the residual/ resale value of the car aside.

166man

I know you said you trust your mechanic, but if I was facing a €3000 bill from a car that showed no signs of breaking down, I'd want a better explanation other than "there's a hole in the engine" "you need a new engine". Especially if it was well serviced.

Surprised nobody's looked for a better explanation- unless I missed it?

grogi

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

Injectors are part of the reason that those engines fail and turbos can also suffer so I wouldn't be inclined to keep your old ones as they are probably in a bad way.

IMO I'd go with IVI, they are on the go a long time and have an excellent reputation. If you're in Dublin or surrounding areas I'd say they'd lift the car if they get the work.

Not the injectors themselves. The issue is with the injectors seals - when they get loose (it is easy to check if they are secure, 5 min work with hex key) then engine starts to act...

colm_mcm

FrontDoor wrote: »

To be honest, I don't think that car is ever going to be worth 5k again. Closer to 3k maybe. At a push.

I would consider getting 7-8k together and heading off to the UK.

If you want to stick with PSA, the 2.0 508 is a well regarded car with 160 bhp. 5 sterling would have one for you.

Similar money for a Mondeo with the same engine.

Spending that sort of cash is a gamble, but you'd have a far more comfortable experience driving 50k km in something with a bit of poke. More reliable engine too.

Or take a gamble on the engine from a breakers.

Second hand cars are cheap in the UK at the minute and from 2010-11 on, have much more favourable emissions for import.

And similar ones for &3k that I can buy?

JohnBoy26

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

It's basically spend 3k and get to stick with the devil you know. The cheapest way out is to fix the car, if you put the residual/ resale value of the car aside.

Fitted with an engine that you don't know.

Toyotafanboi

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

Fitted with an engine that you don't know.

Well it's a refurb engine with a warranty supplied and fitted by ond of the most established engine manufacturing companies in the country.

He isn't pulling the engine out of a ditch.

Yawns

In fairness with the 3k engine you have comeback. It's up to you to decide if the comeback is worth that much extra spent on it. If I was in your shoes I would be tempted with the 3k as with the miles you're doing, you'll want to be able to have somewhere to turn to if needed.

zilog_jones

FrontDoor wrote: »

I would consider getting 7-8k together and heading off to the UK.

If you want to stick with PSA, the 2.0 508 is a well regarded car with 160 bhp. 5 sterling would have one for you.

I'd be inclined to do this too, if you want to stick to the big French cars - a 508 or C5 with the 2.0 HDI engine (DW10) would be a big upgrade in performance, much better suited to long distance driving IMO, you can probably get better spec in the UK, and it doesn't have the oil sludge problems that the 1.6 does.

Spending €3k on another one of these engines doesn't sound like a great idea - reconditioning won't fix the design flaws.

colm_mcm

Maybe bang a chancey engine in for €1500 and sell it?

[Deleted User]

Well my C5 has mileage at the moment if about 270km. So I don't think, even with a 2nd hand engine, it'd sell too quickly.

I will be honest and say I am leaning towards the €3k engine. My thinking is that at least then I can sit into the car and relax knowing that I've at the least another year I'm of worry free driving to look forward to.

Considering the car is the biggest 'tool in my toolbox' so to speak, and makes me my income, coupled with the fact that I've been using my brother and his wives car on and off since mine died and the comfort level etc. is nowhere near the same (they have smaller 'city cars' in the former of a Megan and a 208) I think I may well settle for 'the devil I know' as was said above.

Even the sound system in the c5 is miles ahead of other cars I've been in (albeit I did test drive a 508 before and that car as a whole is lovely). But I'd never get a 508 on the road for anywhere near 3k. And I can't wander off to the UK as I need the car in the road sooner than later (as it's a work vehicle).

So I think I'll have to do that. from reading the posts here and trying to look at things objectively, I think the reconditioned engine I'd the safe way forward. car has just recently had tyres and brake pads in the last 3 weeks which sways it too.

few aesthetic issues need addressing (dents and such) and the car could be a nice runner again.

Kills me to spend 3k on it but hopefully if I go with Dan dalys they'll work out something on price for me.

Has anyone used them before? I presume all engine places are samey? (ie there'd be no real benefit to using IVI over dalys?)

Sorry for long post.

grogi

zilog_jones wrote: »

I'd be inclined to do this too, if you want to stick to the big French cars - a 508 or C5 with the 2.0 HDI engine (DW10) would be a big upgrade in performance, much better suited to long distance driving IMO, you can probably get better spec in the UK, and it doesn't have the oil sludge problems that the 1.6 does.

Spending €3k on another one of these engines doesn't sound like a great idea - reconditioning won't fix the design flaws.

I've looked at autotrader and for €5k landed here one can have a nice C5 with 2.0 diesel, and a year or two younger. I definitely would go that route...

Irish Steve

Don't work for Daly's, but have dealt with them over the last while, and they have a lot of experience rebuilding Merc, VAG and PSA engines, and are very much aware of the inherent design issues with them that cause the failures, and know how to deal with them when rebuilding.

In brutal honesty, a lot of the failures are not due to design issues, they are down to people short cutting on servicing, or using the wrong oils, or not dealing with warning lights, so preventing DPF regeneration, things like that, which can't be blamed on the manufacturers.

If you get the engine rebuilt, and service it in accordance with the recommended intervals, and use good quality oils, with the mileage you are doing, it should give you reliable service for a reasonable period of time. In many respects, that's probably about as good as it gets.

selectamatic

Irish Steve wrote: »

In brutal honesty, a lot of the failures are not due to design issues, they are down to people short cutting on servicing, or using the wrong oils, or not dealing with warning lights, so preventing DPF regeneration, things like that, which can't be blamed on the manufacturers.

If you get the engine rebuilt, and service it in accordance with the recommended intervals, and use good quality oils, with the mileage you are doing, it should give you reliable service for a reasonable period of time. In many respects, that's probably about as good as it gets.

It can and should be blamed on the manufacturer simple as. And tbh if they didn't have a number of design issues there wouldn't be as many of these engines failing.

The initial recommended service interval on these was 20,000km they back tracked to 15,000km after turbo's started failing and engines started sludging left right and centre. All across Europe. There are a number of pretty poor design flaws throughout the engine too and these have already been outlined in this very thread.

Most of the Peugeot and Citroen forums recommend a 10,000km service interval. So if people are finding that it's taking this level of babying to keep these lumps somewhat reliable it's quite clear the engine is well deserving of its reputation of being soft.

[Deleted User]

Irish Steve wrote: »

Don't work for Daly's, but have dealt with them over the last while, and they have a lot of experience rebuilding Merc, VAG and PSA engines, and are very much aware of the inherent design issues with them that cause the failures, and know how to deal with them when rebuilding.

This post gave me a lot of confidence in going with Dalys.

They said it'd be approx a week to get the job done and a price tag of 3k.

That was two weeks ago, and I'm told today it'll be another week and a half.

Has anyone been in this situation before? If I don't have it back by the 6th October my employment prospects look a bit bleak (I'm self employed so no car hire crowd will entertain me, meaning I'm getting lends of the brothers car time and time again, but on the 6th I'll need the car for a full week and he can't gimme a lend of his for that time).

I've completely lost confidence in them. They told me they have an engine for it but the block is wrong and isn't matching up with the gear box etc. which, although I know very little about engines, sounds like nonsense.

Feel like I should have went with IVI. :-( Can I get my car back off Dalys to being to IVI? I'm assuming because they already have been working on it I won't have that choice.

pippip

If possible, I'd go to Daly's and ask to see the car and the new engine and discuss whats going on. Your appearance is likely to get more answers and a more hurried solution (if possible).

If the car is still sitting where you left it and no visible new engine for you to view I'd be taking it away.

How much have you paid them so far?

knipex

ectoraige wrote: »

We replaced the engine in our 2010 C4 Picasso in January, also a 1.6 tdi. We got it from a breakers, it had 60,000 km on it and included turbo, I think it cost somewhere in the region of €450. Our mechanic fit it for €600.

I bought the same engine out of a Volvo V40 with 55K on it, sans injectors (nothing wrong with the injectors on my engine) for €385 but I had to collect.

cost me €600 to get a once over, have it fitted, oil flush, service, do timing etc..

Just under 1K all in.

That engine is everywhere. You should be able to find a good one for under €500.

[Deleted User]

pippip wrote: »

If possible, I'd go to Daly's and ask to see the car and the new engine and discuss whats going on. Your appearance is likely to get more answers and a more hurried solution (if possible).

If the car is still sitting where you left it and no visible new engine for you to view I'd be taking it away.

How much have you paid them so far?

I might do just that very thing, to be honest.

I haven't paid them anything yet. I've no issue with their price, and the work will carry a 12 month guarantee, which I also can't complain about. They seemed reasonable and professional when talking to them.

It's just the timeline that's throwing me off. Last week I rang them and was told it'd be the end of this week. Today I ring them and it 'should only be a week or week and a half' which would be the end of next week. Next Friday if I'm without a car I'm in major hassle and likely will lose a massive portion of my income. Which I can't have happen.

Is it possible to ask them to guarantee next Friday at latest? Or is that just me being childish?

zilog_jones

You need to tell them the urgency, and if they cannot guarantee you'll take your business elsewhere. I don't think this is unreasonable.

Yawns

Any chance they have a car you can use in the meantime?

[Deleted User]

Called out to them today. In fairness, the chap I was dealing with seemed reasonable. I seen my car, and it had no front lights or grill on it, and the bonnet was about a foot higher off the ground than normal, so presumably there was no engine in it at all at the time.

I told yer man the craic and he pretty much said they put the wrong engine into it, so they had to start again. He said there is an engine ready for it, reconditioned, and it'll be fitted on monday. They'll test drive it on tuesday, and have it ready for collection on Wednesday, or Thursday at the latest.

So all I can do is hope that they're being genuine and pray that I get it before the end of next week. Otherwise...

ectoraige

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'm self employed so no car hire crowd will entertain me

Are you sure about that? Different renters have different policies, also you may be able to transfer your own motor insurance to cover the vehicle you are renting instead of using the rental companies insurance, I've done that before. Drop in to the rental places in person you may get a better answer than off a call centre or website.

Stephenc66

ectoraige wrote: »

Are you sure about that? Different renters have different policies, also you may be able to transfer your own motor insurance to cover the vehicle you are renting instead of using the rental companies insurance, I've done that before. Drop in to the rental places in person you may get a better answer than off a call centre or website.

I'd second that.

Enterprise car rental will allow you to transfer your own insurance but I think it must be fully comp

bazz26

Will your insurance company allow it though as usually in the policy small print it says it won't cover you to drive hire cars?

knipex

bazz26 wrote: »

Will your insurance company allow it though as usually in the policy small print it says it won't cover you to drive hire cars?

It will if you physically transfer the insurance rather than drive it under the "open driving" section.

Look at Northgate,. The will rent you a small van (Peugeot partner or open combo type) as a decent daily or weekly rate.. They may have cars available and all their vehicles are rented to business so their insurance wont care if you self employed)

grogi

bazz26 wrote: »

Will your insurance company allow it though as usually in the policy small print it says it won't cover you to drive hire cars?

The small print usually applies to 'Driving other cars' extension. If you temporarily transfer the policy, it will. You just need to say it over the phone.

[Deleted User]

It was actually Enterprise who caused me grief.

I had arranged to book a car with them. Rang them to book it, told them I'd never booked a car before, what do I need? Explained I was self employed and was told just bring a utility bill as proof of address.

Rang them a second time the day before i was due to collect the car, to add an extra day to the hire. Asked the same again to double check and was told i'd be grand.

Arrived at Enterprise, got told point blank they absolutely will not give me a car unless I have a credit card (I don't, only a debit card, and i said this to the lads on the phone) or can supply a pay slip (I can't, i'm self employed).

They offered no alternatives at all and I pretty much had to abandon the car hire on the spot (which left me in an awkward situation at the time obviously, but thankfully the brother helped out even though it was a big inconvenience for him as I was gone for a full week with his car).

So I've no interest in rental crowds at all since.

grogi

Deleted User wrote: »

So I've no interest in rental crowds at all since.

I really don't know what the issue was with your rental.

I don't have a credit card too and rented in Ireland from Europcar, Hertz, Enerprise and a few smaller companies without any issues. Never crossed my mind anyone would ask for a payslip, that's not their business really.

grogi

Anyway, Europcar in Drogheda has a €20/day offer for a week (I search through Ryanair Car Hire)