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Child Item

Gas boiler in bedroom

Sheepdish1

Hi all. Would you be comfortable living in a house with a gas boiler in a room that you or your children sleep in ?

Viewed a property recently and the boiler was in child's bedroom which seemed a little strange and unsafe to me.

I know it may fall within safety regulations but would it not be dangerous or risky with a fuel appliance in the same room that you sleep in? There's a Carbon nonoxide alarm fitted to roof but I'm still nervous about this and would appreciate feedback.

Would it be any more of a risk than a boiler fitted in a room below a bedroom?
in a kitchen under a bedroom for example ?

Also if we were to live in that house if I didn't put the heating on at night world that mean there is no possiblity of carbon monoxide leaks ?

Also should carbon monoxide alarms not be fitted at a lower level than a ceiling?

I will be talking to professionals about this tomorrow but just wondering what people's views are on it.... thanks

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jamesthepeach

We had a gas boiler in our house. It was in the kitchen. I asked could it be moved outside and was told no. It had to be inside.
I got the gas disconnected at the wall outside and got storage heating.
I am not comfortable with a gas boiler anywhere inside the house let alone in a bedroom.

[Deleted User]

Sheepdish1 wrote:

Would it be any more of a risk than a boiler fitted in a room below a bedroom? in a kitchen under a bedroom for example ?

Can it suggest that you ask your safety questions in the plumbing forum. There are some Great plumbers there that specialise in boilers. They will be able to tell you all the regulations.
All I know is that they are allowed in bedrooms, I've seen lots in bedrooms, and the area must be vented. I think a carbon monoxide alarm is required but the lads in the plumbing forum will be able to answer your questions.

Paulw

We have a gas boiler in the bedroom. No issues at all. Once it's serviced regularly, and you have a carbon monoxide detector, I sleep sound at night.

If you don't have the heating on, then there should be no chance of carbon monoxide, unless your system runs a pilot light instead of an electric igniter. Carbon monoxide is produced by incorrect burning of the gas.

Some places have the boiler in the kitchen, some the living room, some bedrooms, some closets, it really depends on a few factors - gas piping with the gas coming in, ventilation for the boiler externally, water piping, etc.

It's not something I have ever worried about.

Tails142

It wouldn't be my preference but it is common. I would be very careful about who services it and ensuring the flue is venting properly and not being blocked

Lantus

jamesthepeach wrote:

We had a gas boiler in our house. It was in the kitchen. I asked could it be moved outside and was told no. It had to be inside. I got the gas disconnected at the wall outside and got storage heating. I am not comfortable with a gas boiler anywhere inside the house let alone in a bedroom.

That's ridiculous. Modern boilers are completely safe and with the right sensors for monoxide which are cheap are safer than a kitchen knife.

Storage heating is something most people aspire to get rid if. After using once.

There are hundreds of millions of people safely using gas in their homes every day without issue. One of the safest forms if heating there is.

jamesthepeach

Lantus wrote: »

That's ridiculous. Modern boilers are completely safe and with the right sensors for monoxide which are cheap are safer than a kitchen knife.

Storage heating is something most people aspire to get rid if. After using once.

There are hundreds of millions of people safely using gas in their homes every day without issue. One of the safest forms if heating there is.

Call me paranoid. ive seen close up what gas can do when it goes wrong. So I'm happy to be paranoid about it.

I understand how storage heating works. Most people don't and assume.its bad and costing them a fortune. Used properly it's about the same price as gas for us.
But that's neither here nor there. I just don't trust gas is my issue.

Michael D Not Higgins

I've got a gas boiler in the bedroom of the flat I'm currently renting. It was newly fitted just before we moved in, is serviced annually and I have a CO alarm fitted near it. Never had any issues or worries about it.

Alkers

The boiler should be room sealed.

If it's an old boiler you can avail of an seai grant to upgrade it and could move it at the same time.

We recently did the same, primarily noise was our concern with the boiler in the bedroom

Ms2011

In the house we just moved out off the boiler was in my 5 year olds bedroom.
It was served regularly & we had a carbon monoxide alarm beside it & never had any issues.

Roger Mellie Man on the Telly

Modern room sealed boilers are fine. There is no possibility of CO escape into the room. Combustion air is drawn from outside air only.

As mentioned, there is some noise, although new boilers are relatively quiet.

CO detectors are routinely fitted at ceiling level.

Have the boiler serviced yearly.

Dtp1979

jamesthepeach wrote: »

We had a gas boiler in our house. It was in the kitchen. I asked could it be moved outside and was told no. It had to be inside.
I got the gas disconnected at the wall outside and got storage heating.
I am not comfortable with a gas boiler anywhere inside the house let alone in a bedroom.

That's crazy

The_Conductor

Simona1986 wrote: »

The boiler should be room sealed.

If it's an old boiler you can avail of an seai grant to upgrade it and could move it at the same time.

We recently did the same, primarily noise was our concern with the boiler in the bedroom

Just for the sake of clarity- a room sealed boiler means that it takes the air it uses for combustion from outside, and expels its waste air outside also. No fumes at all of any nature are emitted into the room. It is perfectly safe for installation in a bedroom- and this type of unit now makes up over 70% of all gas boiler upgrades in Ireland (new installations tend to favour other layouts).

Its entirely safe, and entirely reliable- and providing its serviced annually- you have absolutely nothing whatsoever to fear from it.

The only downside to this type arrangement- is a faint 'roar' when it kicks on- alongside some water movement noises in pipes.

jamesthepeach

Dtp1979 wrote: »

That's crazy

Not if you ever happened upon a gas leak where someone ended up with permanent brain damage it's not. And their system was certified only a couple of months before too. They are all perfect until the day they go wrong and if you are unlucky enough to have it go wrong in a major way then you probably won't survive.
If it was just me living in the house I probably wouldn't bother, but it's not.
Call me paranoid, but I prefer not to have gas.

Xterminator

and some people dont fly, even though its statistically safer than driving.

Your entitled to your opinion, and i hope you acknowledge its not based on the risk or science, but on your fears.

mikeybrennan

The CO alarm shouldn't be on the ceiling in a bedroom

Down at bed level I believe

Paulw

mikeybrennan wrote: »

The CO alarm shouldn't be on the ceiling in a bedroom

That statement doesn't agree with the general rules for placement of a CO nor smoke alarm.

https://nest.com/support/article/Shouldn-t-a-carbon-monoxide-CO-alarm-be-installed-near-the-floor

http://www.carbonmonoxidekills.com/carbon-monoxide-advice/co-detector-placement/

http://www.carbonmonoxidedetectorhq.com/carbon-monoxide-heavier-than-air/

mikeybrennan

Paulw wrote: »

That statement doesn't agree with the general rules for placement of a CO nor smoke alarm.

https://nest.com/support/article/Shouldn-t-a-carbon-monoxide-CO-alarm-be-installed-near-the-floor

http://www.carbonmonoxidekills.com/carbon-monoxide-advice/co-detector-placement/

http://www.carbonmonoxidedetectorhq.com/carbon-monoxide-heavier-than-air/

I could be wrong,mainly smoke /heat I worked with.
Mostly use EI for reference on these,they say bed-height.
https://www.eielectronics.com/faq-s/carbon-monoxide-faq-s.html

Paulw

mikeybrennan wrote: »

I could be wrong,mainly smoke /heat I worked with.
Mostly use EI for reference on these,they say bed-height.
https://www.eielectronics.com/faq-s/carbon-monoxide-faq-s.html

From that URL -
Where do I locate/position the CO Alarm in the room?

(a) Room with the fuel burning device.
Locate above the level of doors/windows.
On wall or ceiling, minimum of 1 metre from the appliance.

So, if it's in the room with the gas boiler (which the OP said it is), then above states on wall or ceiling.

If you want to install a CO detector in a bedroom, in a room without the gas boiler, then you could install it at bed level. Most installers would still install them on the ceiling though.

Michael D Not Higgins

Paulw wrote: »

That statement doesn't agree with the general rules for placement of a CO nor smoke alarm.

https://nest.com/support/article/Shouldn-t-a-carbon-monoxide-CO-alarm-be-installed-near-the-floor

http://www.carbonmonoxidekills.com/carbon-monoxide-advice/co-detector-placement/

http://www.carbonmonoxidedetectorhq.com/carbon-monoxide-heavier-than-air/

Every detector is different and the manufacturer's recommendations should be followed. That second link says you shouldn't place a CO detector within 15 feet of a heating or cooking appliance but my Kidde detector says it should be placed within 5-20 feet of an appliance.

mikeybrennan

I would imagine the fact that it's a bedroom may take precedence over the fact that the room contains a gas boiler when deciding location of CO alarm

I would still hesitantly suggest breathing height is best.

uck51js9zml2yt

I've a boiler in our bedroom. It was in the kids until I needed to get bunk beds..and by default, the wall.

Gumbo

mikeybrennan wrote: »

I would imagine the fact that it's a bedroom may take precedence over the fact that the room contains a gas boiler when deciding location of CO alarm

I would still hesitantly suggest breathing height is best.

I would argue that at breathable height is too late for a warning.
CO is slightly lighter than air so it will fill a room from the ceiling down.
The detector should be located at a higher level and each unit is different. I have wall mounted ones in my house and ceiling mounted ones. They both can. E interchangeable and be put on the ceiling or wall within a few parameters. For example, 300mm below ceiling level for my ones if placed on a wall.

gctest50

jamesthepeach wrote: »

We had a gas boiler in our house. It was in the kitchen.

I asked could it be moved outside and was told no. It had to be inside.

hmm

https://www.rvr.ie/products/weather-enclosure-kit-for-system-combi-boilers

K.Flyer

Generally speaking modern gas boilers are very safe as long as they are correctly installed and maintained.
Whilst I am not a fan of boilers in bedrooms, I have put them there for various reasons.
Wherever you have a gas appliance, a boiler, a cooker / hob or gas fire, you really should have a C.O. alarm fitted.
If you do have a boiler in a bedroom I would further suggest a C.O. alarm which is hardwired into the boiler that shuts the appliance down and prevents it from operating until the issue is investigated.

Dtp1979

jamesthepeach wrote: »

Not if you ever happened upon a gas leak where someone ended up with permanent brain damage it's not. And their system was certified only a couple of months before too. They are all perfect until the day they go wrong and if you are unlucky enough to have it go wrong in a major way then you probably won't survive.
If it was just me living in the house I probably wouldn't bother, but it's not.
Call me paranoid, but I prefer not to have gas.

Inhaling gas is no harm

The_Conductor

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Inhaling gas is no harm

Kindly expand on this.
Inhaling CO- is harmful- and there are long and varied list of other gases that could cause sickness or even death.

Dtp1979

The_Conductor wrote: »

Kindly expand on this.
Inhaling CO- is harmful- and there are long and varied list of other gases that could cause sickness or even death.

Natural gas or lpg, used in boilers are not toxic. The term gassing yourself was used many years ago with gas different to today's. modern gas is explosive in the right concentration with air, but breathing it in won't kill you

rsynnott

gctest50 wrote: »

hmm

https://www.rvr.ie/products/weather-enclosure-kit-for-system-combi-boilers

Probably not suitable for all models. My one warns in the manual that it must not be exposed to freezing temperatures. Some of them have safety devices which will turn the boiler on if it drops close to freezing. Few appliances involving water like to be exposed to freezing conditions. There may well be models that can put up with it, but for most you'd probably be voiding the warranty at the very least. Note that it mentions only a few compatible boilers.

1874

K.Flyer wrote: »

Generally speaking modern gas boilers are very safe as long as they are correctly installed and maintained.
Whilst I am not a fan of boilers in bedrooms, I have put them there for various reasons.
Wherever you have a gas appliance, a boiler, a cooker / hob or gas fire, you really should have a C.O. alarm fitted.
If you do have a boiler in a bedroom I would further suggest a C.O. alarm which is hardwired into the boiler that shuts the appliance down and prevents it from operating until the issue is investigated.

Do any boilers come with CO detectors built in that shut a boiler off? if so do they detect CO levels in the boiler combustion gases, or in the case around it?
Ive read about a mains powered (with battery back up) CO detector that has a relay contact in it, Id considered that might be useful, not only to set off its own alarm, but also to potentially operate an extractor fan (not one of those small bathroom extractors) that could ventilate the space & shut off the power to the boiler. It might be a set up that would require a relay in the power supply to the boiler to do this, I didnt read the manual in detail, but Im guessing that the relay in the device is reset by resetting the CO alarm so long as CO is no longer detected. If anything this has jogged my memory to try find that information again.
I think it is all well and good having a detector, but its better if it can do something about the problem, ie shut off the boiler and ventilate the space

My reading of things is that CO is lighter than air, marginally, but will distribute with convection currents, I didnt think a room would simply fill from the top down, but I still think a CO detector should be up high and not near a corner, rather than low down, and due to the seriousness of CO, I even consider having two not a bad idea. Im sure Ive read of detectors Ive had, is not to place them to close to heat sources, maybe it affects the sensors ability to detect CO over time, but the choice of locating a detector may not be straightforward.

Kolten Cool Thump wrote: »

I've a boiler in our bedroom. It was in the kids until I needed to get bunk beds..and by default, the wall.

Its a serious topic, I know, but I am scratching my head a bit, still I smiled a bit to myself, from being perplexed, I got that the boiler was in the kids room, and maybe needed to be moved for the bunk beds, after that Im lost

antoinolachtnai

Do you know anything about the design of gas boilers?

A gas boiler, if installed in anything vaguely like in accordance with the manufacturer's recommendations, will not leak any gas into the room in which it is located.

The whole thing is designed specifically to make this so. It is nothing like a traditional old-style gas boiler from the 70s. These boilers drew air from the room in which they were located. A properly installed modern boiler does not. It draws air from the outside.

If you are concerned about this, I recommend you read more about 'balanced flue' and room sealed boilers.

The relay setup you can get relates to Regulation 30 in the UK (and there may be a similar regulation in IE, I am not sure). This governed the use of gas heaters in bedrooms. http://www.letlink.co.uk/2016-01-21-12-29-33/disrepair/88-articles/gas-appliances/361-gas-safety-diagnosis-and-prevention .

Even though this was in accordance with regulations, this is not a good setup at all. An 'open-flue' (not balanced flue) setup is not really something that should be in a bedroom. But a balanced-flue arrangement is completely different.

The main thing is to make sure your boiler is installed properly and serviced. Never ever mess with the flue (i.e., the big white pipe that comes out of the top). A CO detector is a great idea, but you should never be depending on it.